Winter Park & Maitland

[Xander]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Oh my, that’s rather generic. I shudder to think what would have become of St. Louis’ Gateway Arch If It were being built in Orlando.

It's just amazing how we never get ANYTHING cool here, even when we already freaking PLAN for it. That bridge was going to be AWESOME.

[JFW657]

Even worse, is how the approach ramps on each side of I-4 are already built to accommodate the original curved design, and oriented in such a way as to line up with the ends of a curved structure. 

Now with the new straight design, the bridge meets up with those ramps at an odd, unnatural angle which just looks odd and tacked on.

[codypet]

Not just that, the anchors for the suspension bridge are built!   Look behind Racquel in the video.  

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/delays-impact-on-i-4-traffic-cause-design-change-for-maitland-pedestrian-bridge-fdot-says/965307071

Just build the dang thing the way you proposed it SGL!

Edited July 9, 2019 by codypet

[orlandouprise]

8 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The representative of the project they interviewed on the news said they could have gone with the original design, but it would have delayed the finish date by another year and caused several more temporary road closures.

who cares!...at least we would have had an iconic gateway into the city for once. Jeezus Christ!!!

[codypet]

I'm getting really annoyed on what SGL's doing to save money.  They started make signs with less information to save money and now this.  FDOT needs to get on them harder.

[nite owℓ]

"We were looking at nearly 100 closures of I-4, in some cases full weekend-long closures of the interstate through Maitland, while we put each one of those bridge pieces in place," explained David Parks with the I-4 Ultimate Project."

Lame excuse. The guy in the video says he wouldn't say it was due to poor planning, but why are they pretending like they haven't known what it would require to install the bridge from the very beginning? It seems like FDOT (or whoever is supposed to be in charge) isn't willing to hold SGL to the original design, so basically SGL is the one dictating the terms of the scope of work at this point lol. IMO, this sets a bad precedent because it makes me wonder what else are we going to have to sacrifice for the sake keeping SGL on schedule? Who is working for whom here? This just seems so bizarre to me.

[codypet]

From what I've been told SGL has threatened to default and walk away a couple of times already and has been getting a lot of leeway in an effort to keep going.  

@nite owℓ You are correct.  SGL when they proposed this would have known all along what they would have need to do to get that bridge built.  This is a last minute cost saving measure.

[dcluley98]

This is likely not true about closing the interstate for an entire weekend. It is fearmongering to get what they want. The project could easily be scheduled on off-times still in incremental fashion as originally planned. Complete BS on SGL part. They are behind schedule and would be facing Liquidated Damages, so they are saying that it "needs to be redesigned or else we will have to close the whole highway." Yeah, not true, if they didn't drop the ball in the beginning it wouldn't be a problem to schedule work off hours.   

Somebody in the press should report THAT! 

Just now, codypet said:

From what I've been told SGL has threatened to default and walk away a couple of times already and has been getting a lot of leeway in an effort to keep going.  

@nite owℓ You are correct.  SGL when they proposed this would have known all along what they would have need to do to get that bridge built.  This is a last minute cost saving measure.

Exactly. They are playing the TBTF, we will take our ball and go home card. 

[nite owℓ]

They have us by the cherries and they know it. What a mess.

23 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

This is likely not true about closing the interstate for an entire weekend. It is fearmongering to get what they want. The project could easily be scheduled on off-times still in incremental fashion as originally planned. Complete BS on SGL part. They are behind schedule and would be facing Liquidated Damages, so they are saying that it "needs to be redesigned or else we will have to close the whole highway." Yeah, not true, if they didn't drop the ball in the beginning it wouldn't be a problem to schedule work off hours.   

Somebody in the press should report THAT! 

Exactly. They are playing the TBTF, we will take our ball and go home card. 

I sometimes have to work late hours so I've already experienced I-4 closures many times and forced to take random detours to get home at 3AM. SGL repeatedly shuts down I-4 WB near Altamonte to replace/install overpass bridges so it's not a novel concept at this point.

 

29 minutes ago, codypet said:

From what I've been told SGL has threatened to default and walk away a couple of times already and has been getting a lot of leeway in an effort to keep going. 

I fear the few snippets that are being made public are just the tip of the iceberg. Of course SGL has a monumental task set before them (which they willingly accepted), however, I was never naive to assume they would finish on schedule or on budget because projects this large rarely ever go according to plan. But I do worry about the acrimony behind the scenes, potential fallout and liability especially with potential lawsuits being filed against SGL for damage to cars and homes etc. Maybe all parties need to sit down and realistically renegotiate the terms/timelines because they are stuck in a staring contest waiting to see who blinks first.

Edited July 10, 2019 by nite owℓ

[aent]

The whole excuse just makes no sense at all. The new bridge design has more pillars in the way of I-4's footprint instead of being suspension... And why does it matter if one bridge is delayed if the rest of the project is done, why can't they open everything else? Surely we're going to get new overpasses in the I-4 Ultimate right after the project is done, as areas continue to grow and side streets have their own projects. Keeping that area under construction with the rest of I-4 operational under the Ultimate plan should be a perfectly fine solution for delays on that particular bridge, to keep literally the projects icon there. The alternative looks ridiculous as the ramps were clearly designed for the other bridge and not whats getting built.

 

I thought the whole point of the PPP was that the private partner and its investors take on significant portions of the risk. The incentive structure should have always left FDOT with much more value, since the partner is supposed to get reimbursed through tolls when the project is completed, so if they walk away and default, FDOT should have a big financial windfall of regaining full ownership/rights to the project/the tolls, and the investor getting no return from the tolls.... thats how the PPP was sold to the public. That should make finding an alternate bidder to complete the project much easier, as the reward (tolls) could still be the same, but without having to have spent anything on the first 70% of the project. Why in the world isn't this the case?

 

And why has no one made a petition to try to stop this atrocity, with seemingly no taxpayer savings?

[dcluley98]

FDOT should pull that scope from SGL for breach of contract and award it to somebody else, then charge back SGL for the cost of work over and above the contract amount and delays. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

26 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

FDOT should pull that scope from SGL for breach of contract and award it to somebody else, then charge back SGL for the cost of work over and above the contract amount and delays. 

Be nice to SGL - they already sent the kickbacks to Skeletor just like they were supposed to, darn it! (I hope I’m just kidding!)

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

From what I understand, they've not only had to pay through the nose in penalties, they've also forfeited some $3 million in bonuses.

That may we'll have something to do with the new, el-cheapo, no-frills, bargain basement design.

It certainly lives up (or down) to the title "pedestrian" bridge, though.

It's about as pedestrian looking as it could get.

[nite owℓ]

Maitland I-4 pedestrian bridge design scaled back, now ‘accentuated by chain link’

“The bridge will be painted white and have blue accent fencing creating a wave of color on the bridge. It also features illuminated pillars stretching 45 feet into the sky, and inlaid City of Maitland seals facing I-4. Dramatic nighttime lighting includes “Maitland” in glowing letters over eastbound I-4 traffic to highlight the gateway to the city.”

Edited July 12, 2019 by nite owℓ

[codypet]

It's Craptacular!

[WAJAS]

This is the first I’ve heard of less information on signs, where can I find more information on this.

[jrs2]

anybody have a bead on which business will take over the vacated Orchard hardware at 17/92 & Miller next to Krispy Kreme?

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

anybody have a bead on which business will take over the vacated Orchard hardware at 17/92 & Miller next to Krispy Kreme?

No, but I'd sure like for it (and the Fashion Square location) to be taken over by another home improvement/garden center.

On 7/11/2019 at 12:58 PM, codypet said:

It's Craptacular!

Actually, I don't mind it.

That first thing was over designed anyway.

If they'd just do something about the way it connects to those ramps.

It's driving my OCD through the roof!!!! 

[spenser1058]

Don’t forget Palmer’s on Corrine Drive and W. Church St. !

http://palmersgarden.com/

https://palmerfeedstore.com/

Also, Miller’s Hardware, remarkably down to earth in pretentious Winter Park! 

https://millershardware.doitbest.com/

Edited July 12, 2019 by spenser1058

[Xander]

On 7/11/2019 at 12:58 PM, codypet said:

It's Craptacular!

How very, VERY Orlando.

[spenser1058]

Just now, Xander said:

How very, VERY Orlando.

Or very Conroy  Rd.?

[Xander]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

Or very Conroy  Rd.?

It's like its twin.......

[codypet]

23 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

This is the first I’ve heard of less information on signs, where can I find more information on this.

The sign replacing this one eastbound makes no mention of Bob Carr or 17 92 shields.  Its also not giving clear direction on which exit you should take to get to Garland north of Colonial.   Its been a big topic of discussion in the signing designer circles.  

[smileguy]

On 7/12/2019 at 3:28 PM, codypet said:

The sign replacing this one eastbound makes no mention of Bob Carr or 17 92 shields.  Its also not giving clear direction on which exit you should take to get to Garland north of Colonial.   Its been a big topic of discussion in the signing designer circles.  

This is an interesting topic. I wonder if it has anything to do with people's use and reliance on GPS - just about everyone gets street names and get directions from their phones or cars, so why does the sign need to do anything except identify the exit - you've already got up to the second navigation including traffic and road conditions at your fingertips.

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, smileguy said:

This is an interesting topic. I wonder if it has anything to do with people's use and reliance on GPS - just about everyone gets street names and get directions from their phones or cars, so why does the sign need to do anything except identify the exit - you've already got up to the second navigation including traffic and road conditions at your fingertips.

One thing that came to mind - the number of people who actually have any idea that Colonial Drive between Mills and OBT is 17-92 is minuscule (most also couldn’t tell you for that matter that OBT from Colonial Drive down through Kissimmee is also 17-92). 

It would totally confuse most Orlandoans who think 17-92 is just Mills and points north.

As smileguy points out, the only folks for whom it might matter are those trying to make heads or tails of a map.

Even worse, if that was what you were doing, it’s the worst possible route to get back to 17-92 as, on its best day, Colonial Drive is a complete abortion. It would make infinitely more sense to guide them to Princeton as traffic is much better.

When that designation was done in the ‘50’s, it was to get people off the predecessor, Orange Ave. It was a brand new road with lots of capacity. Today, it’s just an anachronism.