Winter Park & Maitland

[AmIReal]

A North Carolina based developer bought nearly 7 acres of the stalled Trelago project at 601 Trelago Way in Maitland with plans to build a grocery based retail center. 

Per OBJ, "Harbour Retail Partners has developed and acquired multiple grocery-anchored shopping centers across the Southeast that have featured Aldi, Earth Fare, The Fresh Market, Kroger, Lidl, Publix and Sprouts..."

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/26/harbour-battaglia-maitland-grocery-retail.html

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Coming along nicely.

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Coming along nicely.

What is this development?

[nite owℓ]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

What is this development?

https://winterparkmag.com/2020/12/29/here-comes-the-edyth/

 

MAP: https://goo.gl/maps/RQseCseVFotWbgQ76

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by nite owℓ

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

https://winterparkmag.com/2020/12/29/here-comes-the-edyth/

 

MAP: https://goo.gl/maps/RQseCseVFotWbgQ76

 

Edyth Bush Foundation’s new HQ.

[bqknight]

SIAP - 

Looks like things are full steam ahead for HostDime's HQ. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOPJ7GzzsEc

 

 

[AmIReal]

WP Commission killed the Henderson. Technically the developer with drew the project before it could be voted down, but the impact is the same.

It is unclear where the WP Commission stands on development after also killing the Orange overlay project. There were certainly locals that were opposed to both projects, but it seemed the majority supported them. Yet they seem to have no issue building shopping centers up and down Orlando Ave.

OBJ says, "it remains to be seen if the Henderson Hotel's dismal result at city commission will throw cold water on future new development in Winter Park."

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/28/henderson-hotel-winter-park-construction.html

or, https://bungalower.com/2021/01/28/henderson-hotel-developer-withdraws-project/

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by AmIReal

[nite owℓ]

On 1/28/2021 at 2:09 PM, AmIReal said:

WP Commission killed the Henderson. Technically the developer with drew the project before it could be voted down, but the impact is the same.

It is unclear where the WP Commission stands on development after also killing the Orange overlay project. There were certainly locals that were opposed to both projects, but it seemed the majority supported them. Yet they seem to have no issue building shopping centers up and down Orlando Ave.

OBJ says, "it remains to be seen if the Henderson Hotel's dismal result at city commission will throw cold water on future new development in Winter Park."

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/28/henderson-hotel-winter-park-construction.html

or, https://bungalower.com/2021/01/28/henderson-hotel-developer-withdraws-project/

 

Man, that's disappointing. I understand the need to shield nearby residents since it borders a residential neighborhood, but it's not totally out of place especially since Hillstone (FKA Houston's) and other commercial properties abut the development on Lake Killarney. A classy hotel would not draw riff raff into the area and instead it would've elevated the neighborhood. I have relatives that own homes in that area, it's one of the last few places in Winter Park to undergo the McMansion transformation (only a matter of time as WP prices continue to rise). Now if the developer wanted to build an apartment complex - that would be a definite, hard no.

Winter Park Commissioners voted to deny the project - interesting to note since @spenser1058 believes City of Orlando Commissioners are hapless, powerless victims under nefarious Bulldozer Buddy. How many issues does spenser complain about that occur directly under Patty's nose? But whatever... ignore the hierarchy and automatically blame Buddy for everything lol. Just saying yet once again, that Commissioners can and DO have power if they choose to use it (Winter Park v. Henderson).

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Man, that's disappointing. I understand the need to shield nearby residents since it borders a residential neighborhood, but it's not totally out of place especially since Hillstone (FKA Houston's) and other commercial properties abut the development on Lake Killarney. A classy hotel would not draw riff raff into the area and instead it would've elevated the neighborhood. I have relatives that own homes in that area, it's one of the last few places in Winter Park to undergo the McMansion transformation (only a matter of time as WP prices continue to rise). Now if the developer wanted to build an apartment complex - that would be a definite, hard no.

Winter Park Commissioners voted to deny the project - interesting to note since @spenser1058 believes City of Orlando Commissioners are hapless, powerless victims under nefarious Bulldozer Buddy. How many issues does spenser complain about that occur directly under Patty's nose? But whatever... ignore the hierarchy and automatically blame Buddy for everything lol. Just saying yet once again, that Commissioners can and DO have power if they choose to use it (Winter Park v. Henderson).

Ummmm, - WP has a totally different form of government from Orlando. It’s why Orlando’s supposed to, you know, DO stuff. That’s the point of a “strong-mayor” form of government. Winter Park has never pretended to lead the region in much of anything but pretension.

Btw, if you were napping when forms of government were discussed in 9th grade civics (and I went to school in Pine Hills!), I’ll be happy to recommend some texts. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

Ummmm, - WP has a totally different form of government from Orlando. It’s why Orlando’s supposed to, you know, DO stuff. That’s the point of a “strong-mayor” form of government. Winter Park has never pretended to lead the region in much of anything but pretension.

Btw, if you were napping when forms of government were discussed, I’ll be happy to recommend some texts. 

Sure. But first, can you please explain Patty's role as the commissioner of our district? Literally outline the duties of her job description please. If mayor Dyer is to blame for everything (including potholes), at what point do we hold Patty responsible for something... or anything?? lol

[spenser1058]

17 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Sure. But first, can you please explain Patty's role as the commissioner of our district? Literally outline the duties of her job description please. If mayor Dyer is to blame for everything (including potholes), at what point do we hold Patty responsible for something... or anything?? lol

If you want me to defend Patty, I’m afraid I can’t help you. She’s been hanging on even longer than Buddy. As a practical matter, since the mayor controls all the levers of government, the city council is basically a rubber stamp.

Theoretically, a council member could try to round up the votes to shoot down a plan by the mayor, but since our mayor controls the staff it’s difficult and hasn’t happened in ages.

The success or failure of the region has depended on Orlando’s mayor, as Buddy demonstrated with the venues (even though he put the billionaires ahead of the voters in how he did it). Since the venues were passed,  his only purpose for being in office seems to be arranging 21% pay raises for himself and the council. 

And, by arranging off year elections with 9% turnout, there’s probably nothing to stop him from continuing until he’s as old as John Land and Earl K. Wood were when they finally left (in Apopka and OC, respectively). Hey, you win, this is the government you wanted, I welcome you to it. I am leaving the building.

Btw, if we were to begin the process of consolidation, we could reformulate the governments to give commissioners a more effective advise and consent role. Once again, however, the Orlando forum continues to be one of the few places on the internet where the status quo is worshipped reverently, so that won’t gain support here.
 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

26 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

As a practical matter, since the mayor controls all the levers of government, the city council is basically a rubber stamp.

Both of those statements are incorrect.

28 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Theoretically, a council member could try to round up the votes to shoot down a plan by the mayor,

Their job is to simply vote yes or no based on what is best for the City and their constituents. If they choose to go along with a vote when they feel it is wrong, then they are not doing their job and should not hold the seat.

30 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

since our mayor controls the staff it’s difficult and hasn’t happened in ages

In other words, agenda items are well vetted and the kinks have been worked out ahead of time. This, btw, is universally true in well managed cities. Items that are more controversial either never make it to the floor or they do (and have) and get split votes. 

32 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

with 9% turnout

You say that all the time... how many times has that happened? When was it? What was the turnout for all of Dyer's reelection bids. Of course it doesn't really matter because we can only count votes that have been cast. 

Quick, name the last 3 major American cities to consolidate and when... yeah, looks like pretty much everyone disagrees with that idea.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

Both of those statements are incorrect.

Their job is to simply vote yes or no based on what is best for the City and their constituents. If they choose to go along with a vote when they feel it is wrong, then they are not doing their job and should not hold the seat.

In other words, agenda items are well vetted and the kinks have been worked out ahead of time. This, btw, is universally true in well managed cities. Items that are more controversial either never make it to the floor or they do (and have) and get split votes. 

You say that all the time... how many times has that happened? When was it? What was the turnout for all of Dyer's reelection bids. Of course it doesn't really matter because we can only count votes that have been cast. 

Quick, name the last 3 major American cities to consolidate and when... yeah, looks like pretty much everyone disagrees with that idea.

You mean, like Nashville? Definitely a failed city, right? Indianapolis? Jacksonville? Most MSA’s have a core city somewhat larger than Orlando even if they are not “consolidated”. Consolidating is just a way to solve some specific problems here. One of the most unique features of consolidation is that allows for customization of governance. In other words, things that are duplicative or inefficient for our particular situation can be worked out before the plan ever reaches the voters.

There was a time when even I was resistant to consolidation because the county was much more Republican than the city. That’s of course, no longer the case. There was also a time when city leaders were much more innovative about how the region might progress. That is also no longer the case.

In our case also, each time the idea has been discussed it has been agreed that the smaller cities in the county would remain as they are, so the unique way of life in towns like Winter Garden and Winter Park would be unaffected.

Edited February 2, 2021 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

38 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

You mean, like Nashville? Definitely a failed city, right? Indianapolis? Jacksonville? Most MSA’s have a core city somewhat larger than Orlando even if they are not “consolidated”. Consolidating is just a way to solve some specific problems here. One of the most unique features of consolidation is that allows for customization of governance. In other words, things that are duplicative or inefficient for our particular situation can be worked out before the plan ever reaches the voters.

There was a time when even I was resistant to consolidation because the county was much more Republican than the city. That’s of course, no longer the case. There was also a time when city leaders were much more innovative about how the region might progress. That is also no longer the case.

In our case also, each time the idea has been discussed it has been agreed that the smaller cities in the county would remain as they are, so the unique way of life in towns like Winter Garden and Winter Park would be unaffected.

Great idea to skip past the other issues I posed since you obviously have no clue as to how to answer them. However, yes, you are correct on the 3 last major cities to consolidate. Next question, when? I'll make it easy. They were all in the early 60's and 70's. Yes, that time of history that you seem so enamored with. Most city governments, and people in general, have moved forward. 

Have a great time in Jax!

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Great idea to skip past the other issues I posed since you obviously have no clue as to how to answer them. However, yes, you are correct on the 3 last major cities to consolidate. Next question, when? I'll make it easy. They were all in the early 60's and 70's. Yes, that time of history that you seem so enamored with. Most city governments, and people in general, have moved forward. 

Have a great time in Jax!

Thank you for verifying my earlier point - that, as usual, this is the room where the status quo is alive and well. Also, many thanks about my move to Jacksonville- I encountered more new ideas there in one week than I’ve seen for the core of Orlando in years. I am indeed excited, if saddened, because it used to be the other way around. 

[AmIReal]

26 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Thank you for verifying my earlier point - that, as usual, this is the room where the status quo is alive and well. Also, many thanks about my move to Jacksonville- I encountered more new ideas there in one week than I’ve seen for the core of Orlando in years. I am indeed excited, if saddened, because it used to be the other way around. 

Excellent. Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone.

But I really do mean it... enjoy Jax. You get a chance to maybe bring a city that is very behind where it should be into a new light. I honestly hope you and the others involved (and the City itself) succeed. Jax becoming a better version of itself would be very good for Florida as a whole.

Edited February 2, 2021 by AmIReal

[Uncommon]

Actually, isn’t Louisville the latest large city to consolidate? I think they did so in the late 90s or 2000s if I’m not mistaken. I’ve never been so I can’t say whether it has been successful or not. But I can say Nashville is the exception, especially since its most desirable tourism stretch is located right downtown.

Indianapolis and Jacksonville are the opposite, and serve as cautionary tales to consolidation. Both city centers and cores are crumbling and remain in disrepair, while the beaches and the suburbs are absolutely flourishing. Downtown Orlando already gets bypassed enough by developers looking to instead build in the I-Drive area. If Orlando and Orange County consolidated, it would be the death knell to downtown Orlando as we know it. It would become totally ignored in favor of catering to tourists.

Hell, St. Louis, a city that’s failing miserably, considered consolidation last year but voted against it. Even a city in stark decline recognized the malaise of consolidation.

[jack]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

And, by arranging off year elections with 9% turnout, there’s probably nothing to stop him from continuing until he’s as old as John Land and Earl K. Wood were when they finally left (in Apopka and OC, respectively). Hey, you win, this is the government you wanted, I welcome you to it. I am leaving the building.

 

 

That's a citizen problem, not government. You get the government you deserve.

If our fellow citizens can't get off their a** and vote or order an absentee ballot, to heck with them. 

[jack]

17 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Man, that's disappointing. I understand the need to shield nearby residents since it borders a residential neighborhood, but it's not totally out of place especially since Hillstone (FKA Houston's) and other commercial properties abut the development on Lake Killarney. A classy hotel would not draw riff raff into the area and instead it would've elevated the neighborhood. I have relatives that own homes in that area, it's one of the last few places in Winter Park to undergo the McMansion transformation (only a matter of time as WP prices continue to rise). Now if the developer wanted to build an apartment complex - that would be a definite, hard no.

Winter Park Commissioners voted to deny the project - interesting to note since @spenser1058 believes City of Orlando Commissioners are hapless, powerless victims under nefarious Bulldozer Buddy. How many issues does spenser complain about that occur directly under Patty's nose? But whatever... ignore the hierarchy and automatically blame Buddy for everything lol. Just saying yet once again, that Commissioners can and DO have power if they choose to use it (Winter Park v. Henderson).

I really don't understand that city. The only good news is that they typically swing back and forth between anti development and "okay, we will allow some development". The best is when you follow events in that city, people that live there complain that the previous council and developers ruined the city. Then they say "why do people keep coming here". I would suspect the newcomers like the direction the city is heading in. 

[AmIReal]

37 minutes ago, jack said:

That's a citizen problem, not government. You get the government you deserve.

If our fellow citizens can't get off their a** and vote or order an absentee ballot, to heck with them. 

There has never been an Orlando Mayor election with 9% turnout. Granted, there have been low turnout elections- the lowest being 14%. The turnout was highest, at least during the Dyer period, at close to 40% in '08, but that was an anomaly.  The turnout started to decline in '12, before the election date was shifted. Btw, there was also low turnout (about 14%) in Ms. Hood's reelection race. Dyers first 2 races were very energetic and had good/ interesting choices and that was reflected in higher turnout.

43 minutes ago, jack said:

I really don't understand that city. The only good news is that they typically swing back and forth between anti development and "okay, we will allow some development"

Well, they may not be overly pleased with what they get. OBJ article says a large portion of the property is already zoned for shopping center- so the NIMBYs may end up with even more traffic... "some real estate experts say the site will likely transform into a retail or strip center concept due to its current zoning, and the Winter Park city commissions's reluctance to approve anything beyond how the land parcels are zoned."

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/02/02/winter-park-hotel-site-whats-next-henderson.html

 

[smileguy]

Sir David Adjaye spoke about the Winter Park Library complex at the Guggenheim's The World Around Summit. There are some great construction shots, including close-ups of the facade textures which haven't been very well depicted in renderings.

 

 

[prahaboheme]

On 2/2/2021 at 9:16 AM, jack said:

I really don't understand that city. The only good news is that they typically swing back and forth between anti development and "okay, we will allow some development". The best is when you follow events in that city, people that live there complain that the previous council and developers ruined the city. Then they say "why do people keep coming here". I would suspect the newcomers like the direction the city is heading in. 

I look at WP in the broader context of the transformation of the entire metro area. As Orlando matures, WP benefits (some residents may say it suffers) by having the distinction as the upscale, trendy zip code. There is always going to be pushback in places like Winter Park.

Beverly Hills pushed back on the expansion of the Purple line metro for years claiming that it was a danger to have a subway line run beneath BH High School. Eventually they lost in court and the expansion is ongoing. The obvious reason for the pushback is that BH doesn’t want the riff raff of homeless congregating on Wilshire.

I think WP residents have that same attitude toward change.

[spenser1058]

Ohhhhh, the love:

 

[leondecollao]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Ohhhhh, the love:

 

I’m sure you can take shots that make the Orlando downtown library look ok too. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

What a YUGE  difference from the actual library.