Waterside Tower

[vdogg]

Council doesn't seem on board , but this is one to watch. 

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/waterside-developer-still-wants-to-add-a-residential-high-rise/article_1a798416-cb90-537a-8022-76c8eb129868.html

[vdogg]

Some additional history on the tower topic.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/norfolk-s-waterside-named-the-waterside-district-annex-to-be/article_a1791474-f0b2-54f1-8f20-a3e7f8ea34f9.html

"Fraim said Cordish had previously proposed a residential development at Waterside. He wouldn't explain what happened to that proposal but said, "I think what we said was yes to moving ahead with the development of the waterfront and that any phase two would have to get further approval."

He said Cordish could resubmit proposals it had made to the council for reconsideration."

[BFG]

It does seem like an odd location, given the unofficial connection Town Point Park has to Waterside. Feels like it would break the flow, unless they allow for retail or commons space on the ground floor. Not against the idea, it just seems out of place IMO. 

Councilwoman Theresa Whibley, whose district includes downtown, said better places exist for a residential tower. She named an area between Dominion Tower and Harbor Park as an example of waterfront “ripe for development.”

I've mentioned before how I thought this area would make a great mixed-use development, with apartments, tech companies (both startup and a big name), then restaurants/retail/a brewery. A "mid-rise" type setup with maybe one 25-30 story building, if the land allows for it.

 

[vdogg]

But why would they build on property they don't own? There is zero incentive to the developer to build in that location unless the city literally gives them the land. They have used this formula in several locations and I suspect that without being connected to Waterside the project is a no go. The apartments simply won't be as marketable. They can build a tall, thin, tower with the skinny side angled toward downtown and maintain a significant amount of open space.

[BFG]

Oh, I didn't mean Cordish in general...I'd just love to see that area developed into something like that.

Your post makes sense though, in that keeping it beside Waterside makes the most sense. I looked up the Cosmo 418 project you referred to in another post. Something like that would be perfect for the space. But if Cordish seeks 300 apartments, it might be pretty large.

[vdogg]

12 hours ago, BFG said:

Oh, I didn't mean Cordish in general...I'd just love to see that area developed into something like that.

Your post makes sense though, in that keeping it beside Waterside makes the most sense. I looked up the Cosmo 418 project you referred to in another post. Something like that would be perfect for the space. But if Cordish seeks 300 apartments, it might be pretty large.

I'd like to see that too, but it'd have to be a mixed use development. There's not enough around there for a standalone development.

[vdogg]

This is the 300 unit apartment tower they did in Kansas City. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/blog/real-estate/2014/03/cordish-to-break-ground-on-a-25-story-79m.html

Norfolk would be stupid to pass something like this up, which means they probably will.

[lil-bear]

I like it, but shouldn't it be considered that perhaps The ICON should be absorbed into the DT residential fabric of Norfolk before building another huge apartment building?

I think that this would be more attractive a few years down the road!

[vdogg]

There is a 6 percent vacancy rate downtown, which is pretty close to the max you'll see when taking normal turnover into account. We are no where close to being over built, and can probably handle at least a thousand more.

[carolinaboy]

The location is right for this type of residential tower to be built. Water views and access on one side, downtown/urban views on the others. Proximity to shopping, entertainment, offices/businesses, park, mass transit.

Not much waterfront property is being made available for this type of development.

The tower they are building in KC is around the same number of units so I assume this tower would be of similar height and style.

Developers have to strike (sometimes) while the iron is hot. Now is the time for many reasons. Norfolk is booming and the DT population is increasing. Rates are low to borrow money. Materials costs are fairly low (I think).

I believe Buddy needs some healthy competition also.

Perhaps he bought BOA to renovate because he knew this other tower was going to be built.

[Bseven37]

I still think the open anchor spot at MacArthur is prime property. With the office vacancy falling too I think it would be a great space for a large mixed use project. It's a pretty big piece of land, so maybe some sort of public-private or multi-developer project could work especially if this doesn't come through.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Bseven37

[ntheo]

14 hours ago, Bseven37 said:

I still think the open anchor spot at MacArthur is prime property. With the office vacancy falling too I think it would be a great space for a large mixed use project. It's a pretty big piece of land, so maybe some some of public-private or multi-developer project could work especially if this doesn't come through.

I would not be too surprised if we see something happen along those lines within the next year or so. The 2020 plan for Norfolk designated the land for multi-use high rise, and with Class A office space now almost fully absorbed it will most likely get some momentum.

In addition, there are now two parcels available along St. Pauls Blvd. where they just demolished the courts. The parcel fronting Waterside Dr. has good views of the water.

[Si7i]

Does anyone know where on the internet you can find Cordish's plans for a residential tower at waterside 

In the coming months I think they are going to make a really big push for a tower, but the city council is totally opposed to it

Andrea pulls up a brochure with the renderings in it 

I feel like complications regarding the relationship with this company and the city are going to come up, and drag out the waterside development 

[BFG]

This is the only article I remember from a few months ago...quote from the article, below the link...
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/waterside-developer-still-wants-to-add-a-residential-tower-to/article_1a798416-cb90-537a-8022-76c8eb129868.html

Whether Norfolk would support such an addition remains to be seen. Last September, City Council members objected to the residential component but left the door open for Cordish. The developer’s proposal for a second construction phase has yet to be formally submitted to the city or vetted.

 

[blopp1234]

This seems like it would be the perfect place for a signature tower for Norfolk. Hope it is bigger than the renderings because it is such an iconic spot. Don't see why city council would be opposed to a tower there because there aren't many places in the area that will give residents such a view. Hopefully this starts some sort of a building boom near the riverfront because Norfolk has an amazing stretch of riverfront in that part of downtown. 

[virginia pe]

2 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

This seems like it would be the perfect place for a signature tower for Norfolk. Hope it is bigger than the renderings because it is such an iconic spot. Don't see why city council would be opposed to a tower there because there aren't many places in the area that will give residents such a view. Hopefully this starts some sort of a building boom near the riverfront because Norfolk has an amazing stretch of riverfront in that part of downtown. 

Yes, it is an amazing stretch of river with a great view.  Perhaps city council believes that such a great view should be available to all of the city, not just the few elite that could afford to live in a tower on the waterfront.

 

[lammius]

41 minutes ago, virginia pe said:

Yes, it is an amazing stretch of river with a great view.  Perhaps city council believes that such a great view should be available to all of the city, not just the few elite that could afford to live in a tower on the waterfront.

 

I agree with that philosophy, but a more practical objection could be a potential lawsuit by anyone opposed to the project.  You could argue that creating a separate parcel and zoning that parcel alone for residential, while the adjacent parcels remain public/entertainment/whatever equates to "spot-zoning."  Such a challenge may not win, but the city could prefer to not even invite it, nor the lasting ire of Marriott, Hilton, and Norfolk Southern.   

[BFG]

I'm kinda torn. I'm all for a building boom downtown, but I dunno if that's the right spot for apartments. The stretch starting east of Dominion tower and towards Harbor Park would be a great mixed-use development.

[urbanlover568]

I hope the tower goes through.Richmond is constructing so much apartment units in their downtown. Their MSA is growing almost 3 times as fast as Hampton Roads. Norfolk has to build apartments for companies to relocate their workers to. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by mpretori

[lammius]

Jobs first, then apartments.  

[BFG]

I agree...Norfolk has enough apartments for right now and the future. They need another ADP to come to town, and work on standing behind/helping small businesses. The latter is what will help lure people here, not a robust apartment market.

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, lammius said:

Jobs first, then apartments.  

Actually, housing first then jobs. 

2 minutes ago, NFKjeff said:

Richmond's MSA is not growing at a rate which is anywhere close to 3 times as fast as Hampton Roads. Not even close to twice as fast. I looked at many different studies and could find nothing close to that. A study by NAI shows population growth projections of MSA's through 2030. While Richmond's is projected to add 852,159 residents by 2030, Hampton Roass is projected to add 749,353 over the same time span.

Yea, that's the scary part of it all. It's not about the number, it's about the RATE. Hampton roads economy only expected to grow 1.1 compared to the 1.7 statewide in 2017. While the job announcements are great, no company and would subject employees to scrounging for housing. Look at Charlotte. Has 3+ residential skyscrapers under construction right now and 4+ speculative office buildings under construction. Companies see that their is housing being built and they will come. BoA would never have some to charlotte if changes wernt made. 

[BFG]

Even though we supposedly grow at a smaller pace, it's not the end of the world. Bringing in jobs and not depending as heavily on the military is very important, and the leaders now see that. The HREDA (HR Economic Development Alliance) added a new president this year, and he helped bring thousands of jobs to areas like Phoenix, Raleigh and most recently Orlando. It'll be very interesting to see his vision for the area roll out.

I think with downtown Norfolk having a major renaissance, the biotech labs and fiberoptic connections to Spain coming to VB and more upscale construction at the strip, you'll see the growth this area needs. Those are all attractive amenities. I've said this before, but this will be a different Hampton Roads by 2020 or '25. I think a lot of the potential we've seen in the past will finally come to fruition.

I'm very anxious (if not impatient) about the future, but I think we'll see the payoff in the next few years.

Edited August 25, 2016 by BFG

[urbanlover568]

8 minutes ago, BFG said:

Even though we supposedly grow at a smaller pace, it's not the end of the world. Bringing in jobs and not depending as heavily on the military is very important, and the leaders now see that. The HREDA (HR Economic Development Alliance) added a new president this year, and he helped bring thousands of jobs to areas like Phoenix, Raleigh and most recently Orlando. It'll be very interesting to see his vision for the area roll out.

I think with downtown Norfolk having a major renaissance, the biotech labs and fiberoptic connections to Spain coming to VB and more upscale construction at the strip, you'll see the growth this area needs. Those are all attractive amenities. I've said this before, but this will be a different Hampton Roads by 2020 or '25. I think a lot of the potential we've seen in the past will finally come to fruition.

I'm very anxious (if not impatient) about the future, but I think we'll see the payoff in the next few years.

I hope so.  I'm relocating here from Columbia where growth was stifled at every corner socially. People just didn't embrace change at all and wanted everything exactly the same. 

[blopp1234]

1 hour ago, NFKjeff said:

Richmond's MSA is not growing at a rate which is anywhere close to 3 times as fast as Hampton Roads. Not even close to twice as fast. I looked at many different studies and could find nothing close to that. A study by NAI shows population growth projections of MSA's through 2030. While Richmond's is projected to add 852,159 residents by 2030, Hampton Roass is projected to add 749,353 over the same time span.

 

Being a Richmonder, I absolutely love these numbers. If the population growth that they are projecting is accurate, Richmond and Hampton roads could be sitting at 2 million and 2.5 million by 2030. That would be absolutely great for both metros and Virginia as a whole. As for the whole housing or jobs first issue, housing should definantely come first. If companies see that there is housing being built for employees that could be relocated to the region, the more reluctant they will be to move there. I do believe that Norfolk should follow Richmonds lead and keep building apartments while continuing to attract companies to the region. That is how Richmond is filling the  huge amount of space that has plagued downtown. If Norfolk can keep building apartments and attracting companies to the region, then Norfolk will see an major high rise building boom.