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Hinman project - new 13 story hotel at 10 Ionia


GRDadof3

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On 6/13/2018 at 9:18 AM, MJLO said:

My guess would be a flag Marriott.  Also keep in mind that Marriott owns Starwood brands now so it technically could be a Sheraton too(I don't think there are currently any starwood brands downtown, very few in the area).  Have we ruled out that it won't be a Hilton brand for sure?  If it's another mid tier brand just below flagship i'll be disappointed. 

I have a hard time seeing Marriott putting another hotel in the market, given that they'll have a JW, Courtyard, AC, and a few ancillary brands peppered throughout the suburbs/metro (Springhill/Delta/etc.). It provides a nice spectrum across amenity levels. Starwood could be an option, but I feel like all the brands are matched by an existing hotels here. 

If I had a guess, I think we'll be seeing a mid-level Wyndham, IHG,  or Raddison.  The first two needing an upper scale presence downtown and the latter losing the Grand River Hotel a few years ago. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this is even a budget property (as boring as it would be) like a Hampton Inn. I feel like downtown is prohibitively expensive for overnight lodging. Having less expensive options will allow more visitors to enjoy downtown instead of supporting all the cookie cutter restaurants on 28th. 

 

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26 minutes ago, kwl said:

I have a hard time seeing Marriott putting another hotel in the market, given that they'll have a JW, Courtyard, AC, and a few ancillary brands peppered throughout the suburbs/metro (Springhill/Delta/etc.). It provides a nice spectrum across amenity levels. Starwood could be an option, but I feel like all the brands are matched by an existing hotels here. 

If I had a guess, I think we'll be seeing a mid-level Wyndham, IHG,  or Raddison.  The first two needing an upper scale presence downtown and the latter losing the Grand River Hotel a few years ago. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this is even a budget property (as boring as it would be) like a Hampton Inn. I feel like downtown is prohibitively expensive for overnight lodging. Having less expensive options will allow more visitors to enjoy downtown instead of supporting all the cookie cutter restaurants on 28th. 

 

I'm not sure I completely agree.   I absolutely do think there's demand in the market to accomodate those brands.  Business travelers that have loyalty and status with the major hotel brands are a huge segment, especially with convention traffic.  Even with all of the rooms coming online in Kent County we are still seeing record occupancy numbers.   If pricing were so high that it started to affect occupancy we would see an immediate correction in pricing.  Very few industries have to respond market conditions as fast as the hospitality industry.  Typically when prices are as high as they are downtown it is a direct reflection of demand and higher occupancy.     Currently for both the Hilton and Marriott brands travelers have two options.  You can go to the upper tier JW, or Amway, or you can go to a mid-lower tier Courtyard, Homewood Suites, Hampton ect. (Holiday Inn doesn't count, as a business traveler and hotel princess I consider the Holiday Inn as a form of camping)  The Embassy Suites will fill in that gap a bit, but the absence of those middle upper flagship brands are leaving a hole in the market.  I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a flagship Hilton or Marriott, or both enter the market with these upcoming hotel projects that don't have brand announcements yet.    I also wouldn't be surprised to see a Sheraton Four Points, or Hilton Garden brand fill one of these spots either. 

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1 hour ago, MJLO said:

I'm not sure I completely agree.   I absolutely do think there's demand in the market to accomodate those brands.  Business travelers that have loyalty and status with the major hotel brands are a huge segment, especially with convention traffic.  Even with all of the rooms coming online in Kent County we are still seeing record occupancy numbers.   If pricing were so high that it started to affect occupancy we would see an immediate correction in pricing.  Very few industries have to respond market conditions as fast as the hospitality industry.  Typically when prices are as high as they are downtown it is a direct reflection of demand and higher occupancy.     Currently for both the Hilton and Marriott brands travelers have two options.  You can go to the upper tier JW, or Amway, or you can go to a mid-lower tier Courtyard, Homewood Suites, Hampton ect. (Holiday Inn doesn't count, as a business traveler and hotel princess I consider the Holiday Inn as a form of camping)  The Embassy Suites will fill in that gap a bit, but the absence of those middle upper flagship brands are leaving a hole in the market.  I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a flagship Hilton or Marriott, or both enter the market with these upcoming hotel projects that don't have brand announcements yet.    I also wouldn't be surprised to see a Sheraton Four Points, or Hilton Garden brand fill one of these spots either. 

Definitely agree with what you're saying. I think what you said about business travelers and loyalty program members reinforces the need (from a developer perspective) for a chain outside what we see downtown. I'd love a Raddison Blu, but as @Prankster said it may be too small a property to offer the amenities of a upper scale chain. 

Regardless, I think we can eliminate a few just based on design aesthetic not matching a Aloft, W, moxy, etc. 

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On 6/14/2018 at 9:47 AM, organsnyder said:

Six figures is fairly common for software developers, but not as common in the midwest as on the coasts. Around here (I'm assuming GR and Detroit salaries are fairly comparable), it's almost exclusively senior-level devs that make that much.

Software developers? That's not what most people are doing at Quicken. It's mostly loan processing, call center, underwriting, customer service type stuff.  I've worked with a few buyers who used Quicken and you always end up working with 4 or 5 loan processors to get to closing. I call them the Applebee's of lenders (someone gets your drinks, someone takes your order, manager stops by the table, someone brings around a dessert tray, someone brings water, you get the picture) :)

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8 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Anything less than a flagship would be a sham...original hearsay was a Hilton. Since Hilton and raddison left town makes GR by far the largest metro without a flagship brand....

True statement.  Grand Rapids is however by far one of the smallest metro's that's not a major tourism hub (re: Lake Tahoe) with two premium brands. 

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15 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Software developers? That's not what most people are doing at Quicken. It's mostly loan processing, call center, underwriting, customer service type stuff.  I've worked with a few buyers who used Quicken and you always end up working with 4 or 5 loan processors to get to closing. I call them the Applebee's of lenders (someone gets your drinks, someone takes your order, manager stops by the table, someone brings around a dessert tray, someone brings water, you get the picture) :)

True. Mortgage Bankers are plentiful there and they make good money. I interviewed for a position there four years ago and was told the average salary is over $100,000. However, I chose not to move forward because the way to get to that point was to average 70 hour weeks. Some people are fine with working their life away for the big bucks, but it didn’t appeal to me.

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26 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Here are some more images. Nothing on the application that accidentally slips who the hotel operator will be. The side facing Ionia will be the rounded side it appears. 

13 floors 162 feet. 

 

10 Ionia rev ground floor.JPG

10 Ionia rev east west elevations.JPG

10 Ionia rev south elevation.JPG

10 Ionia rev 6-2018.JPG

I poured over the packet hoping to find SOME hint of the hotel brand. I did read and hear that a press release is coming out this week - HOPEFULLY there is some word in there about what it is going to be. Truth be told I actually really love this and just want to see it built. I love that all three streets have entrances, I love the commercial space at the corner, and I love the idea of a hotel filling this spot and connecting north and south of Ionia, especially as we just begin to imagine what it's going to be like south of Fulton in the Arena/theater/entertainment district. 

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16 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

Maybe they will think like the builders of the McKay tower and build the “base portion” now and add on considerable height later?

That’s not going to happen. First, I don’t think they build buildings that way anymore (the base of McKay Tower was a Massive stone structure). Second, there is an article where they talked about the cost of the separate elevator shaft, etc being cost prohibitive below 42 stories. I doubt they’d gut the building to retrofit this at a later date. 

I can’t confirm (because I don’t know) exactly which hotel is developing it, but I do know they have been intimately involved in the design of the building/footprint. So I’m sure it’s a done deal. It’s just a matter of announcing which hotel chain(which again, I heard was Marriott but can’t confirm). 

I also heard October start date. 

Joe

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12 hours ago, GRLaker said:

True. Mortgage Bankers are plentiful there and they make good money. I interviewed for a position there four years ago and was told the average salary is over $100,000. However, I chose not to move forward because the way to get to that point was to average 70 hour weeks. Some people are fine with working their life away for the big bucks, but it didn’t appeal to me.

This exactly.  I also interviewed for a mortgage banker position.  I did a ton of research and the mortgage bankers make well over $100k.  It's pretty much all commission.  Many of them are fresh out of college or military.  But yes, they work 12+ hrs a day, 6 days a week, so many burn out quickly.

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Me and my wife had our first mortgage through Quicken and I was not really impressed. They would blow up my phone as we looked at houses. They would blow up our phones during the whole process. It was very annoying. They had us talk to 40 different people during the whole process. It was a bit much. We went with a smaller local bank for our next house and it was so much simpler. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
8 minutes ago, kwl said:

Looks like site work began today 

57D6ADA9-EE73-4345-A784-6838F553BC6F.jpeg

According to the city development site that are replacing a sidewalk square. In other 10 Ionia news, it looks like they are still planning on the pedestrian bridge over the roadway to the parking garage across the street. 

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4 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

According to the city development site that are replacing a sidewalk square. In other 10 Ionia news, it looks like they are still planning on the pedestrian bridge over the roadway to the parking garage across the street. 

Seems extreme to shut down the whole lot and tape it all off for a square though, right?

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6 minutes ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

Seems extreme to shut down the whole lot and tape it all off for a square though, right?

It does indeed, but even their permit for working on the square notes that they were requesting to block that entire stretch of the sidewalk to replace a square. HAHA. So who knows... 

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11 hours ago, organsnyder said:

Permit is described as "10 Ionia Soil Samples". Looks like they needed that particular permit because they're tearing up some sidewalk, but I'd assume that they wouldn't be limited to just that spot. Looks like they're taking samples across the property.

If I remember correctly from at least a year ago, there was a drawing floating around where they were going to put the footings where the sidewalk is, and needed an easement from the city? 

 

Ah yes...

 

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  • GRDadof3 changed the title to New 13 story hotel at 10 Ionia
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Anyone heard/seen anything that would indicate if this is starting soon? I had heard (same source that told me the size was being drastically reduced) that this was starting in October. 

For those with a crane fetish, that would be another one in the sky (it’ll be interesting to see where they put it on such a small piece of land). 

Joe

 

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