Hinman project - new 13 story hotel at 10 Ionia

[GRLaker]

28 minutes ago, MJLO said:

410ft would be officially taller than Riverhouse.  410/12= 34.16   So you're saying that each floor of the building they end up building will be about 34-35ft per floor?

[Guest]

I thought the whole point of building this was so it would be the tallest building in GR.  I'd rather see them wait than scale this back.

[GRDadof3]

Word on the street = 14 story hotel tower. Bids are under way. 

 

[jonrapley]

14 stories on such a small plot of land can not be a lot of rooms. I would have thought something closer to 20  would have made more sense.

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Word on the street = 14 story hotel tower. Bids are under way. 

 

Mother of God. You have got to be kidding me. This city's value engineering of anything worth a damn down to blah is championship level.

[egrguy]

That is so underwhelming. Dropping in half to 21 stories would have been okay.

[GRDadof3]

12 hours ago, jonrapley said:

14 stories on such a small plot of land can not be a lot of rooms. I would have thought something closer to 20  would have made more sense.

There are floorplans somewhere that showed the hotel room layout. I'll see if I can find them. 

As @joeDowntown mentioned to me, maybe at the shorter height they can do something better with the top? Or maybe even something better at the bottom? Apparently the hotel brand has changed too..  Maybe we'll get an Aloft Hotel. I mean if South Bend can get one. 

[joeDowntown]

16 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

There are floorplans somewhere that showed the hotel room layout. I'll see if I can find them. 

As @joeDowntown mentioned to me, maybe at the shorter height they can do something better with the top? Or maybe even something better at the bottom? Apparently the hotel brand has changed too..  Maybe we'll get an Aloft Hotel. I mean if South Bend can get one. 

I think it was somewhere around 10 rooms per floor. So depending on the configuration of lobby, meeting rooms, restaurant, etc. It seems like it would be somewhere in the 90-120 range? As GRDad mentioned, at the reduced height, I'd love to see them do something interesting with the roof. 

Joe

[BLUESCRUBS]

While 14 stories is very disappointing, if we were able to get something similar to the IVY Boutique Hotel I would be happy. I stayed in the Chicago Hotel in early January for a work conference and was very impressed, even though the rooftop bar was closed due to it being 14 degrees outside. There are many of these small locations over the country. Comparable to the City Flats brand.

Perhaps something like this would work in this location.

 

 

http://www.exploreivy.com/en-us

Edited April 11, 2018 by BLUESCRUBS

[Guest]

lol seriously?  Why not just make it 12 stories like everything else?  I guess I'm not surprised.  It seems like with the size of the lot it would be more cost effective to build higher, but I guess not.

[wingbert]

12 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Mother of God. You have got to be kidding me. This city's value engineering of anything worth a damn down to blah is championship level.

^^^^This.  

[ironyisadeadscene]

This is so disappointing. 20 would have been nice.

[jthrasher]

Typical.  How many times do these projects get introduced and then either massively scaled back or cancelled all together?  I'm learning not to get my hopes up on any of these big projects.  

[Prankster]

My prediction is that it will be cut down even further to 12 stories, due to them wanting it to fit in with the rest of the city. 

[mjak68]

Maybe someone should propose a 120 story skyscraper in downtown GR.  Then maybe it will get scaled back to 40 stories!   Or would that one end up a 12'er too?

[localtalent]

I can understand being disappointed that we won't have a new 40 story building to gaze upon, but those criticizing the 'value engineering' are really looking at it from the wrong end.

The numbers have to work. Frequently in Grand Rapids, the numbers DON'T work. 

Why?

Many will hate this, but it's because the rates people are willing to pay for 'Class A' or 'business hotel room' or 'downtown apartment' in West Michigan do not support larger scale projects. 

Want 40 stories? Then be prepared to pay $35/ft for office. Be prepared for $350/night rooms. Be prepared for $1,500 for a small apartment. 

Construction costs are up significantly in the past 10 years. Consumer pricing expectations have not risen accordingly.

[GRLaker]

42 minutes ago, localtalent said:

I can understand being disappointed that we won't have a new 40 story building to gaze upon, but those criticizing the 'value engineering' are really looking at it from the wrong end.

The numbers have to work. Frequently in Grand Rapids, the numbers DON'T work. 

Why?

Many will hate this, but it's because the rates people are willing to pay for 'Class A' or 'business hotel room' or 'downtown apartment' in West Michigan do not support larger scale projects. 

Want 40 stories? Then be prepared to pay $35/ft for office. Be prepared for $350/night rooms. Be prepared for $1,500 for a small apartment. 

Construction costs are up significantly in the past 10 years. Consumer pricing expectations have not risen accordingly.

We aren't already there? Last time I tried to get a room at a nice hotel downtown, it was around $300 per night. Also, last time I looked at one bedroom apartments in one of the new downtown developments, it was going for approximately $1,200. They're charging these rates in metal clad 12 story boxes. 

[joeDowntown]

My thought on this is that while I was REALLY excited to get a 40 story building downtown, I still think 14 stories on this particular site is still great infill. I think it will help connect South of Fulton with the rest of downtown, and it's building on a surface lot that was sort of an odd-shaped, ugly duckling. 

So while I'm disappointed that we won't be altering our skyline, I'm still happy to hear this project is alive and well. 

Joe

[GR8scott]

14 hours ago, mjak68 said:

Maybe someone should propose a 120 story skyscraper in downtown GR.  Then maybe it will get scaled back to 40 stories!   Or would that one end up a 12'er too?

They would invert the number to be 012 stories...

 

but really i am I am disappointed as one less space that could have had a promanant feature on the skyline will be another blink of the eye. Also disappointed this now probably means Hampton inn and suites number 7 instead of an actual Hilton. Absurd a market the size GR is doesn’t have a single flagship brad hotel, by far the largest in the country without one....and largest metro in the country without a D1 spirts program and largest without a FM hip hop station and probably largest without an arena that’s a complete bowl and I could go on and on but really kind of fitting how anti-“grand” the visionaries in a lot of ways here 

Edited April 12, 2018 by GR8scott
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[WMrapids]

If they are still using Yamasaki, hopefully they can spend more on better materials/design with less floors. But that’s just me being optimistic...

[MJLO]

4 hours ago, GR8scott said:

They would invert the number to be 012 stories...

 

but really i am I am disappointed as one less space that could have had a promanant feature on the skyline will be another blink of the eye. Also disappointed this now probably means Hampton inn and suites number 7 instead of an actual Hilton. Absurd a market the size GR is doesn’t have a single flagship brad hotel, by far the largest in the country without one....and largest metro in the country without a D1 spirts program and largest without a FM hip hop station and probably largest without an arena that’s a complete bowl and I could go on and on but really kind of fitting how anti-“grand” the visionaries in a lot of ways here 

While we may lack a flagship like most/all of our peer metros, don't forget we have two premium brand hotels that are an echelon above flagship.  I don't think a single one of our peer metros can claim this.   I wouldn't speculate on the brand just yet.  I don't think the flagships are done looking for locations here.  It won't be a Hampton with the one already in Midtown.  If the Hilton brand is not going in that location I'd wait and see. The convention hotel looks to be a much larger/premium location for a flagship brand like a Hilton, perhaps they are waiting for that to come out of feasibility and break ground.

Also maybe we'll get lucky and one of the hotels currently under construction will flip brands.  A Hilton going in next to the Warner tower would be way more welcome than Hyatt Place.

[GRDadof3]

To be honest I thought 40+ stories on this tiny lot looked a bit weird. Like something you'd see in Columbia or Mexico City. It is one less place where a skyscraper can punctuate the skyline but there are still plenty of places remaining. 

[kwl]

Honestly, a moratorium on > 12 story buildings may not be a bad thing. After all, who'd buy a penthouse that looks over a hideous castle. 

[arcturus]

39 minutes ago, kwl said:

Honestly, a moratorium on > 12 story buildings may not be a bad thing. After all, who'd buy a penthouse that looks over a hideous castle. 

An architect with a penchant for 16th century revivalism .. or Metallica?

[x99]

2 hours ago, kwl said:

Honestly, a moratorium on > 12 story buildings may not be a bad thing. After all, who'd buy a penthouse that looks over a hideous castle. 

Maybe if they'd designed this thing to actually look attractive ... like a 40 story neogothic tower or castle ... iit wouldn't have fallen flat on its rear end. 

I always just assumed it was Hinman's vanity project where money didn't matter.   Seems it wasn't.  Oh well.