Hinman project - new 13 story hotel at 10 Ionia

[joeDowntown]

Fourth floor is going up. I have to say I’m super concerned about the quality of the precast panels. They’re a VERY poor match to the rest of the building. Does anyone with knowledge know, is this part of the drying process? They almost look (gasp) like they belong on the Grand castle. I was super excited to see it (the height looks great), but then I saw it close up...

Zoom in on the photos and you’ll see what I’m talking about. 

Joe

 

Note: it looks worse in person. 

[MJLO]

I noticed that too yesterday.  I don't know how it works for concrete, but traditional casting molds break down over time.  Given the limited one time use for a product like this I'd bet what you're looking at there are the castings made toward the end of the molds life cycle. 

My assumption is that this building is going to be painted, and that the noticeable imperfections in panels like these will be smoothed out.  It's probably cheaper to "re-work" them vs. make new castings, especially if the defects are on the surface and cosmetic.   If I were the buyer/builder I would NOT allow these on my finished product if nothing more were going to be done to them. 

[Allison Slater]

One of the curve sections (in that bottom photo actually) had part of an edge chipped off and broken a few weeks ago, like the corner had banged against something. Now it's barely noticeable. So I'm going to make the assumption that these panels will look good in the end through some sort of construction wizardry.

[joeDowntown]

34 minutes ago, tSlater said:

One of the curve sections (in that bottom photo actually) had part of an edge chipped off and broken a few weeks ago, like the corner had banged against something. Now it's barely noticeable. So I'm going to make the assumption that these panels will look good in the end through some sort of construction wizardry.

I hope so. Such a great project, it made my heart sink when I saw the 4th story panels yesterday. 

[localtalent]

I admit to having the same reaction when I saw those 4th floor panels, @joeDowntown

[joeDowntown]

8 hours ago, MJLO said:

I noticed that too yesterday.  I don't know how it works for concrete, but traditional casting molds break down over time.  Given the limited one time use for a product like this I'd bet what you're looking at there are the castings made toward the end of the molds life cycle. 

My assumption is that this building is going to be painted, and that the noticeable imperfections in panels like these will be smoothed out.  It's probably cheaper to "re-work" them vs. make new castings, especially if the defects are on the surface and cosmetic.   If I were the buyer/builder I would NOT allow these on my finished product if nothing more were going to be done to them. 

You think they'll paint it? The first three floors look really nice as is. Seems like they wouldn't want the maintenance cost/headache of painting a building.

Joe 

[MJLO]

11 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

You think they'll paint it? The first three floors look really nice as is. Seems like they wouldn't want the maintenance cost/headache of painting a building.

Joe 

I admit my area of expertise is not in development and construction.  It's not uncommon at all for castings to have defects that need to be smoothed out.  But again I don't know how it works with concrete.  I just can't see Hinman, or the city allowing that to be the final product. 

[Raildude's dad]

I'm pretty sure it's excess release agent used on the forms and it will weather out to match the adjacent panel.

[MJLO]

I think we are up to about a floor a week now.  

[Guest]

Anyone figure out what's going on with the newer panels?  They look like they don't have curing compound on them.  It must be intentional or something they are aware of and will fix down the road.  I don't see how any foreman wouldn't reject the crappy slabs.

[joeDowntown]

18 minutes ago, Floyd_Z said:

Anyone figure out what's going on with the newer panels?  They look like they don't have curing compound on them.  It must be intentional or something they are aware of and will fix down the road.  I don't see how any foreman wouldn't reject the crappy slabs.

I don’t know, but it sure doesn’t look great. I drove past Kerkstra and all of the panels in their yard are the same, darker, concrete color as the fourth level. I have to assume, as some speculated a few days ago, that they’ll be painted.

Seems like a long term maintenance headache to me but maybe the finish of the first 3 levels is much more expensive?

Kind of disappointing for a project that is otherwise amazing to watch being built. 

Joe

[wingbert]

[joeDowntown]

19 hours ago, wingbert said:

Do you want to enlighten us with your wisdom, or just your usual dose of snark?

I’m genuinely interested in understanding the process. Does it just need to cure properly, or will they be adding a finish (paint?)?
 

The whole point of this forum is to share, educate and comment. You’re typical trolling comments are not furthering the conversation. 
 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

33 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

Do you want to enlighten us with your wisdom, or just your usual dose of snark?

I’m genuinely interested in understanding the process. Does it just need to cure properly, or will they be adding a finish (paint?)?
 

The whole point of this forum is to share, educate and comment. You’re typical trolling comments are not furthering the conversation. 
 

Joe

I'm interested too, because it doesn't look great. Maybe they just powerwash it when they're done?  I'd be surprised if it gets painted. 

[Pattmost20]

On 9/27/2019 at 6:04 PM, Raildude's dad said:

I'm pretty sure it's excess release agent used on the forms and it will weather out to match the adjacent panel.

Bumping this comment up because it seems like the most rational explanation. However my knowledge of construction is very limited, so I can't say for sure.

[wingbert]

8 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Do you want to enlighten us with your wisdom, or just your usual dose of snark?

I’m genuinely interested in understanding the process. Does it just need to cure properly, or will they be adding a finish (paint?)?
 

The whole point of this forum is to share, educate and comment. You’re typical trolling comments are not furthering the conversation. 
 

Joe

Oh joe...  I apologize if my jest felt overly snarky.  Raildudes dad already answered the question.  The continued hand-wringing just seemed a tad dramatic.  If the supplier, the onsite workers, the GC, the PM and the owner haven’t called an emergency halt to construction due to this horrifying aesthetic flaw, then you can probably sleep a little easier knowing you don’t need to worry.  Unless you are of the mind that you’ve spotted something that has escaped notice by the professionals involved and they are going to reach the end of this project, look up, and go, “hey, how did we not notice this earlier?”

[joeDowntown]

44 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Oh joe...  I apologize if my jest felt overly snarky.  Raildudes dad already answered the question.  The continued hand-wringing just seemed a tad dramatic.  If the supplier, the onsite workers, the GC, the PM and the owner haven’t called an emergency halt to construction due to this horrifying aesthetic flaw, then you can probably sleep a little easier knowing you don’t need to worry.  Unless you are of the mind that you’ve spotted something that has escaped notice by the professionals involved and they are going to reach the end of this project, look up, and go, “hey, how did we not notice this earlier?”

It's not dramatic. We over analyze everything.  @Raildudes dad gave us his thoughts on it (I don't think it was a definitive "this is what's going on" answer. If it is, great. But it didn't come off that way). 

I don't think we discovered something nobody else sees. It still begs the question, why are the panels different? I think a lot of us are legitimately curious about how the precast process works (this is an unusual build, it's not something we see every day, week, year). 

If people weren't curious about what's going on with a pretty key project downtown,  I wouldn't see a point in having this forum.

Joe

[MJLO]

So far every panel above the 3rd floor is just finished concrete. For whatever reason it  the pieces on the first 3 floors have color treatment, while those above do not.  My guess is that it’s intentional.  If the pieces on the floors above continue the same look as the 4th floor it should answer a lot.  I fully expect that the exterior of the building will be uniform when it’s completed. 

[Raildude's dad]

Peruse their web site. Precasters definitely can control the color with the type of cement, aggregate etc. The precaster makes test panels to be approved by the architect etc before they go into production. The panels won't be painted. That's one of the benefits of using precast.

https://www.kerkstra.com/

[mpchicago]

Here's the scoop, as I reached out to Hinman:

The first 3 floors are made with a special sand mix concrete to simulate limestone.

Floors 4 - 13 are made with standard concrete.  Next summer, before the project is complete we will put on a high performance coating that will closely match the limestone look of the first 3 floors.

So, I guess it will be "painted."  Not sure what coating they will use, but here is something that I would suspect is probable.

http://usscproducts.com/specialty-coatings/concrete-protective-coatings/lithium-concrete-coating-cosi-/p/287/416

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by mpchicago

[joeDowntown]

38 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

Here's the scoop, as I reached out to Hinman:

The first 3 floors are made with a special sand mix concrete to simulate limestone.

Floors 4 - 13 are made with standard concrete.  Next summer, before the project is complete we will put on a high performance coating that will closely match the limestone look of the first 3 floors.

So, I guess it will be "painted."  Not sure what coating they will use, but here is something that I would suspect is probable.

http://usscproducts.com/specialty-coatings/concrete-protective-coatings/lithium-concrete-coating-cosi-/p/287/416

 

Thanks for solving the riddle!  can’t wait to see the finished product. Now I can go back to enjoying the build. Haha. 

Joe

[MJLO]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:22 PM, MJLO said:

So far every panel above the 3rd floor is just finished concrete. For whatever reason it  the pieces on the first 3 floors have color treatment, while those above do not.  My guess is that it’s intentional.  If the pieces on the floors above continue the same look as the 4th floor it should answer a lot.  I fully expect that the exterior of the building will be uniform when it’s completed. 

 

3 hours ago, mpchicago said:

Here's the scoop, as I reached out to Hinman:

The first 3 floors are made with a special sand mix concrete to simulate limestone.

Floors 4 - 13 are made with standard concrete.  Next summer, before the project is complete we will put on a high performance coating that will closely match the limestone look of the first 3 floors.

So, I guess it will be "painted."  Not sure what coating they will use, but here is something that I would suspect is probable.

http://usscproducts.com/specialty-coatings/concrete-protective-coatings/lithium-concrete-coating-cosi-/p/287/416

 

Hah!  I knew I wasn’t crazy

[Mishigami]

Was in GR for a brief moment earlier today and decided to snap a few photos of the building myself. Seeing just these few floors erected in person was a lot more impressive than I thought it would be. This building will definitely add a completely different feel to this side of town once it’s complete. And I can also see it being a big “photo spot” too. 

Downtown GR in general almost feels like a different city in some areas compared to even just a few years ago when I first began to visit.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Mishigami

[ironyisadeadscene]

1 hour ago, Mishigami said:

Was in GR for a brief moment earlier today and decided to snap a few photos of the building myself. Seeing just these few floors erected in public was a lot more impressive than I thought it would be. This building will definitely add a completely different feel to this side of town once it’s complete. And I can also see it being a big “photo spot” too. 

Downtown GR in general almost feels like a different city in some areas compared to even just a few years ago when I first began to visit.

Yeah, it looks unbelievable already. Makes a HUGE difference. Still, I'm gonna be greedy and wish it was more like 25 stories.

[GVSUChris]

Going up! Floor five on its way.