N&O Site

[Jones_]

Whole Foods would never work at this site. Its too far for most people to walk easily and not easy for Tahoes and Escalades to get into. Both of their classic customer types are shot. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Jones_

[Guest]

Update from the submittal to the city for revised stepbacks for the office building.

Love the massing and density. Charlotte gets much bigger buildings, but would love for it to get this many buildings/uses on a single block. Makes it that much more vibrant.


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[orulz]

On 9/11/2019 at 12:47 PM, Green_man said:

That site plan is outdated. Here is the updated one:

That grocery store looks like it is about 120x240 which is just shy of 29000 square feet.

That's too big for a Trader Joes or Aldi's (both 15k), or Lidl  or Fresh Market (both 20k).

This is smaller than the average new-build Whole Foods (40k) or Harris Teeter (50-60k)

This *is* the size of a Publix urban format store, but since they're already going in at SmoHo, that's out.

It's also about the size of a Whole Foods 365. So unless Harris Teeter has an urban format that I'm not aware of, Whole Foods 365 is my prediction.

[Guest]

That grocery store looks like it is about 120x240 which is just shy of 29000 square feet.

That's too big for a Trader Joes or Aldi's (both 15k), or Lidl  or Fresh Market (both 20k).

This is smaller than the average new-build Whole Foods (40k) or Harris Teeter (50-60k)

This *is* the size of a Publix urban format store, but since they're already going in at SmoHo, that's out.

It's also about the size of a Whole Foods 365. So unless Harris Teeter has an urban format that I'm not aware of, Whole Foods 365 is my prediction.

HT has a couple urban format stores around the country. Seen in DC, Charlotte and I thought ATLANTA

 

 

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[Prodev]

Whole Foods 365 no longer exists. They pulled the plug on that concept about 6 months ago.  

Teeter isn't in Atlanta. 

[Desert Power]

Do we think the market will support a new condo tower? 

[Green_man]

10 hours ago, orulz said:

That grocery store looks like it is about 120x240 which is just shy of 29000 square feet.

That's too big for a Trader Joes or Aldi's (both 15k), or Lidl  or Fresh Market (both 20k).

This is smaller than the average new-build Whole Foods (40k) or Harris Teeter (50-60k)

This *is* the size of a Publix urban format store, but since they're already going in at SmoHo, that's out.

It's also about the size of a Whole Foods 365. So unless Harris Teeter has an urban format that I'm not aware of, Whole Foods 365 is my prediction.

Piggly Wiggly's are independently owned and operated franchises.  I've always thought if I won the lottery I'd open a couple (Five Points, Downtown).  Could be a random downtown Raleigh millionaire wants a grocery store?? 

[KJHburg]

Harris Teeter has multiple urban format stores in the DC area in the close in suburbs and in DC.  Could be a smaller Teeter. Yes Whole Foods 365 is gone but they are still tinkering with different designs and I would not count them out yet.  They love urban stores. 

[KJHburg]

I think Charlotte's uptown Whole Foods is around 29,000 sq ft or so @ricky_davis_fan_21 help me remember the WF store size at Stonewall Station?  

[QCxpat]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I think Charlotte's uptown Whole Foods is around 29,000 sq ft or so @ricky_davis_fan_21 help me remember the WF store size at Stonewall Station?  

According to the Charlotte Observer, "the new 36,000-square-foot Whole Foods is uptown's first full-sized grocery store (including a mezzanine and lower vestibule area, it's almost 47,000 square feet.)"

 

[KJHburg]

So a 29,000 sq ft grocery space could be a small Whole Foods as they never used the upper area at the uptown Charlotte store so it is 36,000 sq ft.  However the downtown Raleigh market is smaller of course than uptown Charlotte and so it could be a Whole Foods still.  Charlotte's urban Whole Foods does extremely good lunch business with nearby office workers and still attracts shoppers that come by foot and drive as they validate parking for 2 hours.  My bet still for this grocery space is a Whole Foods or Teeter still. 

[Desert Power]

27 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

So a 29,000 sq ft grocery space could be a small Whole Foods as they never used the upper area at the uptown Charlotte store so it is 36,000 sq ft.  However the downtown Raleigh market is smaller of course than uptown Charlotte and so it could be a Whole Foods still.  Charlotte's urban Whole Foods does extremely good lunch business with nearby office workers and still attracts shoppers that come by foot and drive as they validate parking for 2 hours.  My bet still for this grocery space is a Whole Foods or Teeter still. 

How big is the HT Uptown (not that I like that one)?  And, yeah, Whole Foods destroys at lunch time.  It would be great in this location too.

[Merthecat]

You know, Harris Teeter had been rumoured for years to be opening a location in Seaboard.  That project was declared dead in the past year or two, but maybe they're reconsidering a Downtown location?  I think something like their small Uptown Charlotte location could work well here.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Desert Power said:

How big is the HT Uptown (not that I like that one)?  And, yeah, Whole Foods destroys at lunch time.  It would be great in this location too.

19,000 sq feet

[Green_man]

By the way, the site plan update to the city from Sept 3 2019 shows big box retail instead of grocery.  Also a loading dock instead of another parking deck entrance on Salisbury.  Likely the marketing flyer is just to gauge or generate interest from various market sectors.

 

[Trent Y]

How big is the North Hills Harris Teeter? That's an urban format. I could see that going here. But if the plans are updated and it's going to be big box retail, then I have no idea. 

[orulz]

How big is the North Hills Harris Teeter? That's an urban format. I could see that going here. But if the plans are updated and it's going to be big box retail, then I have no idea. 

48ksf. It is an odd one-off 1.5 story layout. Seems unlikely HT would be eager to copy it. I have a feeling that Kane may have given HT a pretty sweet deal on the space at NH to get them to be okay with it.

[KJHburg]

this is interesting on the Nexus office tower they will go spec if they have to and have the money to do it.

""Acquisition Group is a very well-respected and established owner (Two Hannover Square – 437,000 SF) in Downtown Raleigh. It is a highly capitalized organization and purchased the 3.3-acre Nexus site in 2018 in an all-cash transaction. Acquisition Group plans to construct Nexus without bank financing and therefore delivery of the project is not contingent upon lender approval. East West Partners is the developer based in Chapel Hill, NC, and brings an impressive depth of experience and strong execution that will deliver excellence at Nexus.""

from the leasing agent webpage

https://www.foundrycommercial.com/properties/office/nexus.stml

[KJHburg]

from a story from the Triangle Business Journal today

""Dubbed the Nexus, site plans for the project filed earlier this year outlined the first phase of the project calling for a 20-story, 325,000-square-foot office tower facing Salisbury Street, with ground-floor retail. And just last month, developers have filed additional plans showing the full site and all four towers in greater detail, with renderings depicting three 20-story towers and one 19-story office high-rise at the corner of Salisbury and Hargett streets. Developers hope to begin construction early next year.  marketing materials for the project list a 250-room hotel, 45,000 square feet of street-level retail and around 400 residential units -- including 100 condos and 300 apartments.""

subscriber article https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/10/25/more-details-emerge-about-the-nexus-development-in.html?iana=hpmvp_trig_news_headline

Edited October 26, 2019 by KJHburg

[Green_man]

Couple renderings of the residential towers on the west side of the block (facing the park) condo building on left, and apartment on the right.

[KJHburg]

from a subscriber TBJ article  about the new condos pictured above

"""Dubbed The Nash, the 20-story tower will feature over 100 upscale condominiums -- with floor-plans ranging from one-bedroom homes to penthouse suites -- and amenities including hotel-style offerings such as concierge services. The tower will be one of four in the Nexus — a mixed-use development with three 20-story towers and one 19-story tower at the corner of McDowell and Hargett streets.  The property is owned by The Acquisition Group of California, and Chapel Hill-based real estate development company East West Partners is developing the property in partnership with the owner.   “Ever since we’ve been working on the project we knew there would be a significant condominium component to it and planned it all along. There’s not been much condo product built in downtown Raleigh since the recession,” Perry says. “You’ve seen most of what’s been built in the last few years has mostly been for rent.”""

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/11/05/nexus-project-in-raleigh-to-feature-penthouses.html

this will be a great project to have both rentals and condos in the same block.  Hope they snag a grocery tenant and do not count Harris Teeter out as a possibility. 

website    https://www.thenashraleigh.com/

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by KJHburg

[RALNATIVE]

5 hours ago, Green_man said:

Couple renderings of the residential towers on the west side of the block (facing the park) condo building on left, and apartment on the right.

Looks exceptional. Only wish 1 or more of the towers were 10-20 stories taller.

 

[Green_man]

Also noteworthy, it appears all of the parking for this project is in the base of the office tower and then 2-3 levels below grade under the whole development.  So really a lot of residential if all floors above the retail ground floor are units!

[dmccall]

This is one of the 3 sites downtown that has the potential to stand out in the money shot. (across from Poole's and the State lot between Archives and Christ Church being the 3rd). So, one of those towers really needs to stand out.

[RALNATIVE]

42 minutes ago, dmccall said:

This is one of the 3 sites downtown that has the potential to stand out in the money shot. (across from Poole's and the State lot between Archives and Christ Church being the 3rd). So, one of those towers really needs to stand out.

I've made the same point numerous times. What a shame if it doesn't.