Peabody Union (27 story residential, 354 units, 251,000 sq. ft. office, 50,000 sq. ft. retail), Peabody Plaza (9-story, 280,000 sq. ft. office), & 4 smaller buildings, MDHA Trolley Barn sites

[claya91]

7 hours ago, Ingram said:

MDHA wants that land developed. They believe the Hensler and Eakin projects are most likely to get FUNDED and BUILT. They can see those proposals have the best chance of happening.

MDHA does not want those lots to go undeveloped because the developer can't get funding. With a condo tower, five apartment towers, and two office towers in the works for downtown, a developer will find it even harder than it already is to get funding for any sort of tower from the banks. What are the odds the other proposed multi tower projects could get funding.

On top of that who knows if Nashville will still be the "I've got to move there" city next year, two years from now, etc. If another city replaces Nashville as the fad city before financing can occur then most likely those lots will sit empty for some time.

I'm glad the multi tower projects didn't get accepted. Nashville already has too many imbeciles moving to it in droves. Every tower that gets built makes the city look even more like a "happening place", which in turn brings even more morons to its confines.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Although I will give you credit, Nashville is experiencing growth unlike it has ever seen, Nashville, as well its immediate surroundings, have experienced growth that exceeds the nationwide rate for the majority of the 20th and 21st century. Economic diversification, lower tax burden, a wide array of educational institutions (attracting younger people), climate, urban green space, and entertainment, are all well entrenched into Nashville's modern identity. It's not just a hit TV show that gives us "15 minutes of fame", these are tangible characteristics. Most comparably sized cities have a few of these advantages, but few have all. Couple that with the fact that Millenials/Gen Zs increasingly value urban living, and it is very likely that above average growth will continue assuming we keep widespread corruption out of local government.

Edit: I would also like to add that while most (myself included) were hoping MHDA would take a "go big or go home" approach with this parcel of land, I would be thrilled to learn the Cambridge Holdings or Crescent Communities proposal replaced this one

Edited August 4, 2016 by claya91

[markhollin]

Views of the site from the southern edge of the Trolley Barns parking lot:

[Lexy]

On 8/4/2016 at 10:47 AM, Ingram said:

MDHA wants that land developed. They believe the Hensler and Eakin projects are most likely to get FUNDED and BUILT. They can see those proposals have the best chance of happening.

MDHA does not want those lots to go undeveloped because the developer can't get funding. With a condo tower, five apartment towers, and two office towers in the works for downtown, a developer will find it even harder than it already is to get funding for any sort of tower from the banks. What are the odds the other proposed multi tower projects could get funding.

On top of that who knows if Nashville will still be the "I've got to move there" city next year, two years from now, etc. If another city replaces Nashville as the fad city before financing can occur then most likely those lots will sit empty for some time.

I'm glad the multi tower projects didn't get accepted. Nashville already has too many imbeciles moving to it in droves. Every tower that gets built makes the city look even more like a "happening place", which in turn brings even more morons to its confines.

I hear Memphis and Peoria are great places to live this time of the year.  Ever thought about moving to either one?

[arkitekte]

1 hour ago, Lexy said:

I hear Memphis and Peoria are great places to live this time of the year.  Ever thought about moving to either one?

I love how your only response was a dig at two other cities...

[Lexy]

Not a dig at all.  Neither city is growing so if that's what you want, move there.

 

As for this being my only response in here, not hardly.  I stated my piece about this design being an offensive piece of suburban garbage.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Lexy

[Nashville Cliff]

On 8/4/2016 at 1:49 PM, smeagolsfree said:

The Mayors office needs to take the Development out of MDHA and leave the housing to that committee and let planning take care of the rest. There is no need for an MDHA design review committee either as there is already a downtown design review committee under the planning dept. None of the MDHA board members have any development experience with exception of one. The rest could be clueless.

 

Housing development agencies have statutorily enabled funding opportunities that city governments lack.  Your proposal would be shortsighted.

On 8/4/2016 at 10:47 AM, Ingram said:

MDHA wants that land developed. They believe the Hensler and Eakin projects are most likely to get FUNDED and BUILT. They can see those proposals have the best chance of happening.

MDHA does not want those lots to go undeveloped because the developer can't get funding. With a condo tower, five apartment towers, and two office towers in the works for downtown, a developer will find it even harder than it already is to get funding for any sort of tower from the banks. What are the odds the other proposed multi tower projects could get funding.

On top of that who knows if Nashville will still be the "I've got to move there" city next year, two years from now, etc. If another city replaces Nashville as the fad city before financing can occur then most likely those lots will sit empty for some time.

I'm glad the multi tower projects didn't get accepted. Nashville already has too many imbeciles moving to it in droves. Every tower that gets built makes the city look even more like a "happening place", which in turn brings even more morons to its confines.

I agree with nearly everything you said, just not everything in that last paragraph after the first sentence.

[smeagolsfree]

59 minutes ago, Nashville Cliff said:

Housing development agencies have statutorily enabled funding opportunities that city governments lack.  Your proposal would be shortsighted.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one Cliff. MDHA could have made a lot more money if they sold the land outright with no strings attached. That would have gone a lot further in funding their programs.

Two blocks away at the 2nd and Demonbreun site, the land is under contract for 33 million and is around two acres. The Baptist sold just over an acre at 8th and Demonbreun for 18 million.  The price for this land is a steal and MDHA is giving it to who they want instead of letting the market decide how much and what gets built.

[Skyscrapergeek]

I agree Ron and btw, the FBC lot sold for $20 M and from what I'm hearing they may be considering selling the lot behind the Customs House as well as the rest of the lot next to the new Cambria.  I know this info doesn't belong in this thread so maybe it could be moved.  Also, you can go to the church's website http://www.firstbaptistnashville.org and click on Live Services and Events.  The first video is from this past Sunday.  They give a full update on the plans for construction of the new education/multi-purpose building and how it will activate the north end of Broad.  I think the plan is smart and ambitious in a very positive way.  

Timeline highlights:

- Sept 2016 approval of amended master plan, begin architectural work

- Mid 2017 demolition of east building (old bank/trust building)

- First qtr 2018 begin construction 

- 2020 completion

[markhollin]

How Eakin and Hensler won the bid for the Trolley Barn sites.  At least we now know some of the process that MDHA went though in considering and grading each bid:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/08/10/wire-to-wire-how-eakin-and-hensler-won-the-trolley.html

 

[BnaBreaker]

Hahaha What a joke.  Ignoring the astounding fact that none of the criteria they looked at had anything to do with the actual proposals themselves outside of cost, how on earth did Hensler and Eakin basically go 1-2 in every category?  How did they get such high scores in experience?  Their portfolios are both quite light.  This still smells to me of some insider BS to me.  

The most maddening thing about this, aside from the fact that the actual design of these projects wasn't even something considered, is that according to their own chart, the magnificent Mathews proposal was just a couple of "scope" points away from being the selected proposal.  I don't know what "scope" means to MDHA, but in my book, this proposal has a far larger "scope" than the crap they chose:

Edited August 10, 2016 by BnaBreaker

[MLBrumby]

Amen!! 

[Hey_Hey]

I don't understand the Hensler experience score compared to Giarratana.  Assuming that they didn't give points for getting arrested in bar room fights, I see Giarratana having much more of a portfolio.  

Hensler has the Adelicia and TwelveTwelve.  Giarratana has the Viridian, Encore, Bennie Dillon, 1818 Church, Sobro, and 505CST.

 

[bmkTN]

Yeah none of those "scores" make any sense at all.  I really hope that the project goes through some serious modifications before construction starts, especially Eakin's office component.  If built as designed, it will look soooo wrong and shortsighted 10-15 years from now rather than being a jewel for the city for the next 40 or 50 years.

[markhollin]

A couple of screen shots of the MDHA lots pulled from DJ1Phantom 4's drone video of downtown. We can only hope that whoever eventually gets the rights to the corner lot at KVB and First Ave./Hermitage Ave. will be allowed to erect something spectacular.
 

[Nashtitans]

any news on this? Did any of the emails yall sent (my didn't) get a reply? I'm still mad over this. God why cant they change their mind or something

[bmkTN]

I haven't received any responses from my multiple emails.  I'm just hoping that everyone involved (especially Eakins) has a revelation and finally realizes what a career-defining project this is and they all decide to stop half-arsing it.  Or that the financing completely falls through and Mathews Cos., Cambridge, or Specturm/Emery miraculously obtains it all.  We can dream, right?

[smeagolsfree]

MDHA is getting criticism for this as well as the decision to do a no bid for the school at Cayce. Hopefully the bad press will move the Mayors office to make changes and get rid of some of the good ole boys that have been running things for years. A sign of good leadership is knowing when to step down and let the next generation run things. I am wondering the reason why different leadership in multiple departments have not stepped down, and one of my theory's is power, but there is always the problem of corruption and kickbacks. I am not saying this is the case, however all things are possible.

[titanhog]

4 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

MDHA is getting criticism for this as well as the decision to do a no bid for the school at Cayce. Hopefully the bad press will move the Mayors office to make changes and get rid of some of the good ole boys that have been running things for years. A sign of good leadership is knowing when to step down and let the next generation run things. I am wondering the reason why different leadership in multiple departments have not stepped down, and one of my theory's is power, but there is always the problem of corruption and kickbacks. I am not saying this is the case, however all things are possible.

All you have to do is start seeing questionable decisions again and again and you begin to realize that something isn't right.  There's obviously some kind of issue with this group if we're continually shaking our heads at them.

[bmkTN]

A couple extra questions:

Does anyone know why MDHA decided to split the parcels up and sell the corner lot separately?  I guess we can still hope that something great gets built there.  Also, does it seem extremely odd to anyone else that they specifically raised to height limit on all three parcels to 30 floors (making it seem like they understood to need for more density) and then they go with a 4 or 5 story office building?  Just seems totally illogical.

[titanhog]

13 minutes ago, bmkTN said:

A couple extra questions:

Does anyone know why MDHA decided to split the parcels up and sell the corner lot separately?  I guess we can still hope that something great gets built there.  Also, does it seem extremely odd to anyone else that they specifically raised to height limit on all three parcels to 30 floors (making it seem like they understood to need for more density) and then they go with a 4 or 5 story office building?  Just seems totally illogical.

That makes me think it's the "good old boy" system at work even more.

[markhollin]

I had a one-hour meeting with Joe Cain, the Director of Urban Development for MDHA yesterday afternoon.  We covered several topics related to downtown and East Nashville.

In relation to this thread, we spoke for about 20 minutes on the Trolley Barns sites, and how the final decision for the Hensler/Eakin proposal came about.  Here are some general take-aways:

1)   The design board was very concerned that the feel and history of the Trolley Barns themselves would not be literally overshadowed by 15-30 story structures immediately to the north and west.  They wanted a sense of scale so that the neighborhood that has been established there would still feel inviting and walkable.

2)   They didn’t want a wall of taller structures blocking-off Rolling Mill Hill from downtown.  They felt that a less dense air-space would create a better flow working up the hillside.

3)   He made clear that the renderings from Eakin and Hensler were just initial concepts to get a sense of mass, but there would be much more design processing before final ideas are approved.

4)   Joe felt that the Eakin office building facing Hermitage Avenue would have a lot of street activation with restaurant and retail.  He thinks there will be a grocery store as part of the structure. He believes it will still stay in the 5-8 story range.

5)   The buildings that will border directly on the existing Trolley Barn properties will be 2-4 stories, and will echo the same dark brown brick feel, with wide sidewalks and greenery, etc.  This will add a very livable quality as well as welcoming space for tourists, diners, etc. to the shops and restaurants that will proliferate there.

6)   He wasn’t so sure that the “Drive-In Theater Screen” look of the Hensler residential building would look that way in it’s final design.  He thinks it will be more visually stimulating than that.  He agreed that the large 4-story opening looking through the center of that building was very eye-catching, and the committee very much liked that. It will most likely remain in the 20-25 story range.

7)   All of the buildings will have a parking element (garages either below grade and/or above) to them to not only take care of the new tenants, but also to replace the large surface lots currently on the land.  If above grade, they want very tasteful treatments, and definite first floor street activation.

8)   He believes that the back corner of the lot that is currently just south of the parking lot that borders on Hermitage Ave. and includes a retention/drainage pond, will be developed with a 4-6 story structure eventually, which will also include it’s own parking.

9)   He also thinks the small lot that is on the SE corner behind the Trolley barns (that butts-up against the ridge leading up to the former Rolling Mill Hill Hospital) could very well have a 4-6 story garage built there, with first floor activation.

10)   As far as the highly important/extremely valuable final lot on the SE corner of KVB and Hermitage, Joe said it will not be developed until after the other  Eakin/Hensler projects are completed.  Primarily this is due to the fact that it will have to temporarily be a parking lot to help replace some of the surface spots being redeveloped.  Once those projects and their adjoining garages are ready, then they can “get to work” on that prime corner lot.  He fully expects that it will receive many bids, and thinks it will be a 30-story structure that will become a high-profile, landmark piece. 

11)   He also shared that there was a tremendous amount of sewer work that had to be built for the Rolling Mill Hill development (there never used to be proper drainage when the hospital and earlier mills used to be up there, and it created tremendous run-off problems for Hermitage Avenue).  They will be extending much of that work under these Trolley Barn sites as they grading and foundational work get underway.

12)   Joe shared that there were incredible environment issues up on Rolling Mill Hill because nothing had ever been properly monitored or enforced from the 1800’s until the 1990s when it was all abandoned. He said a lot of waste from the hospital and old mills had seeped into the ground before it could flow down into the river (ughh!). Also tremendous clean-up work had to be done on the Trolley Barns due to all the fuel spillage, old tanks, etc. from when they were the maintenance buildings for all the city busses.

13)    There have been many discussions with NES to bury the power lines that run along the west side the river, but the cost would be astronomical.  NES is fearful that if they put all the work into doing that, then every other neighborhood in town that has power lines will want the same, and it will become a massive headache.  They at least convinced NES to bury cables along the eastern edge of Rolling Mill Hill, where two power towers used to be located. Personally, he would love to see them all gone in the downtown area in the future, along with telephone poles.

[PaulChinetti]

Nice work @markhollin !

[Vrtigo]

Thanks, @markhollin! I would love to hear the same dialog with relation to the Gulch bridge...

[MLBrumby]

Just curious Mark if that is the same Joe Davis who is the brother-in-law of former mayor Karl Dean. 

[nashvylle]

3 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Just curious Mark if that is the same Joe Davis who is the brother-in-law of former mayor Karl Dean. 

I will let Mark respond, but I am almost positive it is not.