The amazing transformation of 363 State St to a Dollar General

[GVSUChris]

18 minutes ago, Morris said:

Just heard in the Heritage Herald, the Heritage Hill neighborhood paper, that Clarks, is going to become a Dollar General......The existing building will be modified, with it's front windows replaced, and a new roof line on it. The 71 micro unit apartment plan was scraped. 

You. Can. Not. Be. Serious. ?!?!?!?!?!?!

That is soooooo bizarre to me. Where did you learn it was to be a Dollar General because that is the only piece I didn't see in the HH Newsletter, unless I looked at an older issue...

[GR_Urbanist]

Congrats, NIMBYs!

Instead of a great residential mixed-use development to anchor State St, we've bumbled our way into a dollar store.

Another blown opportunity in the uptown area. Just great... Did people think that these developers were going to stick around as they got jerked around?

[Morris]

What I think what happened, is a number of things.....The first is financing....I think the banks are running scared right now, with the number of new units being built. The second, is price of rents, what I heard, they were charging for a micro unit, $1000 a month, while larger rental units in the area are going for around $850. The third thing is that the new building had too many units (71) for the lot size, the plans I saw, didn't include inside room for bike racks, no parking for the store, except metered parking out front that goes from 9 to 5, and limited private parking for the tenants. There are just so many open spots in the streets around the property, and how many renters do not have cars? It would be like NYC, with competition for open spaces for blocks, if this was built.  I do wish there was a quality grocery going in there, yes, I am glad the old owners of Clarks, with their nasty old outside posters of beer and wine will be gone, that trash in the area that I pick up, is at a all time low, , that their inside of the store looked like only beer coolers and a wall of bottles of liquor, and a nasty smell that hits you like a brick wall, when you walk into the place. Don't even remind me of the bums that show up, and drink either in the parking lot, or the park across the street, throwing their bottles on the ground, and doing other things, when done. I think this option is better than the first two, but I can think of better ones, but I am not the decision maker here. The owners of the property is. There is smart progress, and there is stupid progress, What do you want your neighborhood to have?  

[x99]

8 hours ago, Morris said:

What I think what happened, is a number of things.....The first is financing....I think the banks are running scared right now, with the number of new units being built. The second, is price of rents, what I heard, they were charging for a micro unit, $1000 a month, while larger rental units in the area are going for around $850. The third thing is that the new building had too many units (71) for the lot size, the plans I saw, didn't include inside room for bike racks, no parking for the store, except metered parking out front that goes from 9 to 5, and limited private parking for the tenants. There are just so many open spots in the streets around the property, and how many renters do not have cars? It would be like NYC, with competition for open spaces for blocks, if this was built.  I do wish there was a quality grocery going in there, yes, I am glad the old owners of Clarks, with their nasty old outside posters of beer and wine will be gone, that trash in the area that I pick up, is at a all time low, , that their inside of the store looked like only beer coolers and a wall of bottles of liquor, and a nasty smell that hits you like a brick wall, when you walk into the place. Don't even remind me of the bums that show up, and drink either in the parking lot, or the park across the street, throwing their bottles on the ground, and doing other things, when done. I think this option is better than the first two, but I can think of better ones, but I am not the decision maker here. The owners of the property is. There is smart progress, and there is stupid progress, What do you want your neighborhood to have?  

Ultimately, the neighborhood actually does appear to be getting what it seems it wanted anyway:  Removal of the liquor store with a grocery store put back in its place. I'm pretty sure Dollar General is basically just a neighborhood grocery store minus the produce.  In some rural areas, I'm pretty sure I've eve seen produce when there wasn't another store in town.

In any case, it was an interesting idea to use "new" as a selling point that would theoretically generate hundreds more in rent over existing market rents.  It will be interesting to see whether that works for Orion in a neighborhood whose calling card is "historic".  We'll see.  What that neighborhood really needs are more purpose-built four units and studios carved from existing larger units. Unfortunately, both of those items are banned.  Housing policies with their roots in the crack house epidemic are more than a little long in the tooth at this point.  

[wingbert]

12 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Congrats, NIMBYs!

Instead of a great residential mixed-use development to anchor State St, we've bumbled our way into a dollar store.

Another blown opportunity in the uptown area. Just great... Did people think that these developers were going to stick around as they got jerked around?

Apparently a good old fashioned insurance arson was too much to hope for.

[Telecaster Rex]

17 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

You. Can. Not. Be. Serious. ?!?!?!?!?!?!

That is soooooo bizarre to me. Where did you learn it was to be a Dollar General because that is the only piece I didn't see in the HH Newsletter, unless I looked at an older issue...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves - here's what the Heritage Herald actually says:  363 State Street development: The micro-unit development is no longer a reality. The owner has been administratively approved by HPC to rehab the current structure (former Clark’s). The windows will be reopened, the modern roof removed, and exterior goose-neck light fixtures windows are all planned. A retail tenant appears to be in the works. (emphasis added by me).

So...  Dollar General appears to be speculation at this point, unless Morris has some other insider knowledge.

EDIT: OOPS - did see Dollar General in notes later in the newsletter.  Personally, I understand the property owner's right to lease to whomever they want as long as they comply with regulations... BUT there are SO MANY better options than Dollar General.

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, Telecaster Rex said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves - here's what the Heritage Herald actually says:  363 State Street development: The micro-unit development is no longer a reality. The owner has been administratively approved by HPC to rehab the current structure (former Clark’s). The windows will be reopened, the modern roof removed, and exterior goose-neck light fixtures windows are all planned. A retail tenant appears to be in the works. (emphasis added by me).

So...  Dollar General appears to be speculation at this point, unless Morris has some other insider knowledge.

EDIT: OOPS - did see Dollar General in notes later in the newsletter.  Personally, I understand the property owner's right to lease to whomever they want as long as they comply with regulations... BUT there are SO MANY better options than Dollar General.

This post is awesome. The best "things will be fine... OH MY GOD THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!" post I've seen in a while. haha.

Joe

[x99]

3 hours ago, Telecaster Rex said:

EDIT: OOPS - did see Dollar General in notes later in the newsletter.  Personally, I understand the property owner's right to lease to whomever they want as long as they comply with regulations... BUT there are SO MANY better options than Dollar General.

I'm not so sure about that.  Dollar General is basically a general store that carries a little bit of everything.  Right now, Heritage Hill has absolutely nowhere to buy anything other than fancy cheese.  Dollar General might have sort of a "low end" reputation, but the products are the same stuff you buy anywhere else.  They are heavily moving into a general store model.  In fact, they bought out Walmart's Express "micro store" concept not that long ago.  http://www.retaildive.com/news/dollar-general-buys-walmart-express-stores-to-sell-fresh-produce/423448/  The current weekly circular features 3 12-packs of code for $7, toilet paper, bottled water, frozen pizza, law chairs, bug spray, cat food, sun hats, some clothes, a kiddie pool, OTC medications, motor oil, and some picnic stuff.  http://www2.dollargeneral.com/Savings/Circulars/Pages/index.aspx  The only other options to buy that stuff are CVS or Family Dollar in Eastown.  All things considered, weirdly enough I'd chalk this up in the "win" column.

[GR_Urbanist]

I hate to be the wet blanket, but this is not going to be a win when you see the final product.

Dollar General isnt interested in making sure this location fits the expectation that they will be some great outlet that will try to fly "above and beyond" with your usual dollar store is in terms of appearance in order to fit into a Heritage Hill aesthetic.

Their locations in the GR area are simply horrid looking. Mostly hole-in-the-wall blank wall boxes that make Clark's look like a quaint shop in Saugatuck.

And one only needs to look at the CVS in Eastown that completely closed off all the windows to the street, and the Family Dollar on Wealthy, with its huge barred windows, to know that these place try to limit their exposure to the outside neighborhood to such an extreme, that they become off-putting to even think of entering unless you know what you want and it's the only place to get it. I just dont see this developer doing much more than the bare minimum to meet Dollar General's corporate template of what they want.

And as long as they sell junk food and soda, it wont be too different in the end than Clark's outside of not having any 40oz booze or cigs.

The nice ones only go to the suburbs or large cities.

 

I hope I'm wrong. I just get the feeling I'm wont be.

 

 

 

[wingbert]

On 5/19/2017 at 6:30 PM, x99 said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Dollar General is basically a general store that carries a little bit of everything.  Right now, Heritage Hill has absolutely nowhere to buy anything other than fancy cheese.  Dollar General might have sort of a "low end" reputation, but the products are the same stuff you buy anywhere else.  They are heavily moving into a general store model.  In fact, they bought out Walmart's Express "micro store" concept not that long ago.  http://www.retaildive.com/news/dollar-general-buys-walmart-express-stores-to-sell-fresh-produce/423448/  The current weekly circular features 3 12-packs of code for $7, toilet paper, bottled water, frozen pizza, law chairs, bug spray, cat food, sun hats, some clothes, a kiddie pool, OTC medications, motor oil, and some picnic stuff.  http://www2.dollargeneral.com/Savings/Circulars/Pages/index.aspx  The only other options to buy that stuff are CVS or Family Dollar in Eastown.  All things considered, weirdly enough I'd chalk this up in the "win" column.

Yep, perfect for Heritage Hill.  Nice and classy.

   

[x99]

Just now, wingbert said:

Yep, perfect for Heritage Hill.  Nice and classy.

The current building is staying, so they really couldn't make it any worse than it is now.  It's one of those situations where anything will be an improvement.  The HH newsletter says that they are going to rehab the current structure.. "windows will be reopened, the modern roof removed, and exterior goose-neck light fixtures and windows are all planned."  HPC has oversight, so it shouldn't come out too bad.  If they're smart they'll play up the historic theme "Dollar GENERAL STORE est. 1939" with a massive hand-lettered black and white painted on building sign and other windows painted with gold lettering in the classic "general merchandise, groceries, and sundries" store motif.  Probably won't happen, but I can dream...    

[MJLO]

5 hours ago, wingbert said:

Yep, perfect for Heritage Hill.  Nice and classy.

The trash can in the foreground of the last picture is an especially nice touch

[GRDadof3]

13 hours ago, temporary.name said:

You are holding out way too much hope for a company that preys on the poor and lower income neighborhoods by using manipulative tactics (different packaging that skews the price per oz but without doing the math, a person thinks they're getting a deal). They'll do the absolute bare minimum required. 

A Dollar General usually marks the decline of an area or business district, sorry to say. State St is a strange area, it borders Heritage Hill but it's within walking distance of some of the poorest people in the city of Grand Rapids. 

[x99]

22 hours ago, temporary.name said:

You are holding out way too much hope for a company that preys on the poor and lower income neighborhoods by using manipulative tactics (different packaging that skews the price per oz but without doing the math, a person thinks they're getting a deal). They'll do the absolute bare minimum required. 

Eh. I'll beg to differ on that I suppose. They have thousands of stores=buying power. The pricing in the circular I looked at didn't seem bad.  It's a 6000 to 8000 square foot building, so options are limited and this is better than a restaurant in terms of meeting a need. When you just need to some tape or some popcorn or cups without driving 20 minutes to wherever, stores like this are nice to have.  And they aren't all ugly.  

The little blurb said they were taking off the fake roof and opening the windows back up.  It will be a huge improvement over the old Clark's liquor store.  Not complaining.

[GR_Urbanist]

Notice the "windows"? They are frosted over to well-above the height of an adult so you can't see in and people in cant see out. Like I said, these places do what they can to limit their exposure to the places they locate that they don't trust all that much.

 

Just wait to see what trick they will pull to fulfill that criteria. The windows will either be opaque or they will be like the CVS in Eastown, which means they will be nothing more lighted display boxes.

Basically worthless.

Like why is there any expectation that these guys will chose this site to make something "nice"? They know it was a liquor store.

Dont get your hopes up.

[mpchicago]

I agree Dollar General, or any dollar store for that matter doesn't usually have a positive connotation.  Bummer that the redevelopment project fell through.  The only hope is that since this is in a historic district and they plan on modifying the facade, one would think they would have serious scrutiny from the HPC.  They are very hard on home owners who want to make modifications, why would it be different with a commercial building?

[wingbert]

16 hours ago, x99 said:

 

I'm going to have to agree with mpchicago.  x99's example above is definitely better than the fugly structures I found and I would hope that any work on the building would be driven in the direction of this photo rather than the dumps I showed.  The HPC has stuck its nose into some other situations where their involvement seemed a little over-the-top and arbitrary.  However, this is one of those cases where their focus could actually do a lot to benefit the neighborhood and the city.

But seriously, the name Dollar General just shouts "Cheap Crap".  

[GVSUChris]

Guess we can change the name of this thread officially. Doesn't look they'll be doing a whole lot with the exterior. Submitted without comment. 

[organsnyder]

Gross.

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, GVSUChris said:

Guess we can change the name of this thread officially. Doesn't look they'll be doing a whole lot with the exterior. Submitted without comment. 

 

[GR_Urbanist]

I cant help but laugh because the whole farce has come to its sad, and predictable conclusion.

 

No magical opening of closed off windows. ZERO street transparency.

No restoration of any original aspect of the building. Even the crappy roof is going to remain as-is!

No fancy exterior sign like you find for a shop on Cherry or Wealthy in order to present an "upscale" appearance. Just the standard corporate-issued Dollar General in big lemon yellow letters.

Not even a planter box...

 

I hope this serves as a lesson. When you have a chance to have something great (but not perfect) done to a place that is an eyesore, HELP IT ALONG, or else you will end up with total mediocrity.

Enjoy!

 

 

[thebeerqueer]

SMH

[mgreven]

Does this have to get approved?  HPC or Planning Commission?  Maybe they can encourage some revisions?

[mpchicago]

35 minutes ago, mgreven said:

Does this have to get approved?  HPC or Planning Commission?  Maybe they can encourage some revisions?

How about, can they require some revisions?  Find it hard to believe they would grandfather this mess, but considering what was planned for this corner, and what is coming to this corner, nothing would surprise me. 

[mgreven]

11 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

How about, can they require some revisions?  Find it hard to believe they would grandfather this mess, but considering what was planned for this corner, and what is coming to this corner, nothing would surprise me. 

Hence the italics.  I actually worded it more forcefully first. Hopefully they will hold their feet to the fire. 

Hopefully they are just going in with the worst and planning on the PC forcing some changes on it.