Suburban Projects

[thebeerqueer]

5 hours ago, MJLO said:

Wait.. so you're of the opinion that the current Hudsonville resident base that were born already wearing wooden shoes, and a stick up their rear ends aren't diverse enough??

Guilty!!

[wingbert]

Look how Hudsonville has become the sin city of the midwest since the blue laws were eliminated.  The crime and alcohol-fueled criminal activity, not to mention the rampant whoring have ruined that town for the god-fearing folk who used to call it home.

[joeDowntown]

12 hours ago, wingbert said:

Are you talking about the old original Ada or the new Disney-fied Ada brought to you by the good folks at Amway?

If you look at it, they've been tearing down the 1960's version of Ada. I will shed zero tears for the loss of a bunch of crappy buildings and a crappy strip mall. I think it looks pretty nice, and the fact that they're opening up the riverfront (instead of it facing the ass end of the strip mall), I'm pretty happy with the progress. 

Joe

[wingbert]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

If you look at it, they've been tearing down the 1960's version of Ada. I will shed zero tears for the loss of a bunch of crappy buildings and a crappy strip mall. I think it looks pretty nice, and the fact that they're opening up the riverfront (instead of it facing the ass end of the strip mall), I'm pretty happy with the progress. 

Joe

Meh.  Not sure where the "bunch" of crappy buildings were located.  And sure, the strip mall wasn't a gem, but I'll reserve judgement for a few years.  It will be interesting to see if chasing away longtime businesses from the downtown, building faux historic buildings, and raising rents will result in any actual growth/vibrancy in downtown Ada. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping it turns out OK, but when the newest addition is Ada Liquor... is that a good sign?  What's next, a couple of vaping shops and a Boost Mobile?

[MJLO]

44 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Meh.  Not sure where the "bunch" of crappy buildings were located.  And sure, the strip mall wasn't a gem, but I'll reserve judgement for a few years.  It will be interesting to see if chasing away longtime businesses from the downtown, building faux historic buildings, and raising rents will result in any actual growth/vibrancy in downtown Ada. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping it turns out OK, but when the newest addition is Ada Liquor... is that a good sign?  What's next, a couple of vaping shops and a Boost Mobile?

I think you might have a bit more of a caricature in your head of what is happening in Ada, over what's actually taking place.  My parents own a business that has temporarily closed and is relocating because of this construction.  They also live fairly close so i'm pretty familiar with what's going on.  None of the buildings at or near the corner of Ada Dr and Thornapple River are affected so the "historic" portion is largely in tact.  What is being developed are parking lots on the backside of Headley and mostly open land to Fulton (screenshot below).  The buildings that are being torn down have added little to no character to the actual "downtown" itself.   

Trust me this will fill up with a bunch of pretentious boutiques, salons, cafe's, and restaurants where you don't understand what the menu means.  I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it directly takes on Rockford in the "quaint" dept.  It will be a bit of a destination, and likely raise the already high profile of Ada in attracting more upper middle class to Uber wealth.  Even if it's called "Ada Liquor" I promise you people aren't walking in there to brown bag some 40's.

[wingbert]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

I think you might have a bit more of a caricature in your head of what is happening in Ada, over what's actually taking place.  My parents own a business that has temporarily closed and is relocating because of this construction.  They also live fairly close so i'm pretty familiar with what's going on.  None of the buildings at or near the corner of Ada Dr and Thornapple River are affected so the "historic" portion is largely in tact.  What is being developed are parking lots on the backside of Headley and mostly open land to Fulton (screenshot below).  The buildings that are being torn down have added little to no character to the actual "downtown" itself.   

Trust me this will fill up with a bunch of pretentious boutiques, salons, cafe's, and restaurants where you don't understand what the menu means.  I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it directly takes on Rockford in the "quaint" dept.  It will be a bit of a destination, and likely raise the already high profile of Ada in attracting more upper middle class to Uber wealth.  Even if it's called "Ada Liquor" I promise you people aren't walking in there to brown bag some 40's.

Not to go too far off track but I drive through Ada nearly every day.  It may fill up with all the fancy things you mention but the majority will fail.  It will not become the next Rockford or Saugatuck.  There is only one reason for all the changes and that is to create a Potemkin village to assist Amway in making an impression on visitors and helping them when they are recruiting people from other large CPG companies.  For example, the Clever Ewe closed up and no fancy boutique or salon moved in.  Instead, the eye doctor from the strip mall is moving there.  Before it was the Clever Ewe, that location was an art gallery.  And speaking of Ada Liquor, where was the boutique or salon clamoring for that location on the historic side of Thornapple when it became available?  Instead, we got a liquor store.  

I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong.  

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, wingbert said:

Not to go too far off track but I drive through Ada nearly every day.  It may fill up with all the fancy things you mention but the majority will fail.  It will not become the next Rockford or Saugatuck.  There is only one reason for all the changes and that is to create a Potemkin village to assist Amway in making an impression on visitors and helping them when they are recruiting people from other large CPG companies.  For example, the Clever Ewe closed up and no fancy boutique or salon moved in.  Instead, the eye doctor from the strip mall is moving there.  Before it was the Clever Ewe, that location was an art gallery.  And speaking of Ada Liquor, where was the boutique or salon clamoring for that location on the historic side of Thornapple when it became available?  Instead, we got a liquor store.  

I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong.  

Exactly right. It won't ever become like Rockford because the rents are so atrociously high. $26 a square foot, you have to sell a lot of candles and organic salads to pay that kind of rent. Saburba closed recently, the tanning salon closed, Vitale's moved out, Thornapple Grill closed, and the list goes on and on. Amway and the township keep saying that "change is hard" but I really do think they're smoking some wacky tobacky. The disruption to the small business community in Ada may take a decade to work itself out after this. 

I hear that Cheri Devos is opening an ice cream shop in the little red school house now. Scoopers has a post on their FB page asking "Why does a billionaire need to open an ice cream shop and compete with the little guy?"   Very good question...

[joeDowntown]

13 hours ago, wingbert said:

Meh.  Not sure where the "bunch" of crappy buildings were located.  And sure, the strip mall wasn't a gem, but I'll reserve judgement for a few years.  It will be interesting to see if chasing away longtime businesses from the downtown, building faux historic buildings, and raising rents will result in any actual growth/vibrancy in downtown Ada. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping it turns out OK, but when the newest addition is Ada Liquor... is that a good sign?  What's next, a couple of vaping shops and a Boost Mobile?

A bank on a weird lot with way too much parking is being turned into Kingmas, along with a couple of shoddy out buildings on the perimeter of the strip mall. A building that looked like an old Pizza Hut. Grand River Grocery, which had a poor layout and flooded pretty badly a couple of years ago. The old Heidi Christine's, which was quite chopped up and inefficient. Plus the strip mall, and (Name the restaurant of the week) Grille. Is that a bunch? A lot? A handful? A gaggle?

You sure do seem to be fixated on that tiny little liquor store?! I don't see it as a big deal either way. If it does well, good for them. If it doesn't? I'm sure something will take its place pretty quickly. 

Joe

 

[wingbert]

9 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

A bank on a weird lot with way too much parking is being turned into Kingmas, along with a couple of shoddy out buildings on the perimeter of the strip mall. A building that looked like an old Pizza Hut. Grand River Grocery, which had a poor layout and flooded pretty badly a couple of years ago. The old Heidi Christine's, which was quite chopped up and inefficient. Plus the strip mall, and (Name the restaurant of the week) Grille. Is that a bunch? A lot? A handful? A gaggle?

You sure do seem to be fixated on that tiny little liquor store?! I don't see it as a big deal either way. If it does well, good for them. If it doesn't? I'm sure something will take its place pretty quickly. 

Joe

If the old Heidi Christine's, Grand River Grocery and a bank branch are your definition of crappy and deserving of demolition then there's going to be plenty of work for Pitsch for years to come from Ada to Cascade to EGR.  In reality, those buildings weren't so much unsalvageable as they were in the way of someone's vision.  And for those keeping score at home, the occupancy of the strip mall has actually been solid for the last several years (Zeytin, Spoonlickers, Vitales, eye doctor, McDonalds) but your comment about restaurant of the week makes my point.  Are you saying that a fancier looking building with higher rent is going to solve that issue in this downtown? 
The Mud Room did well for years in a "shoddy outbuilding on the perimeter of the strip mall".  Now they are at Knapp's Corner.  The Thornapple Grill building might've been a little old so hey, let's tear it down.  We'll build an amphitheater on the river because the one between the Amway Grand and Devos Place downtown has been such a raging success.  
And no, I'm not fixated on the liquor store.  The point is that the liquor store is emblematic of the fallacy at the core of this whole concept.  The idea that you can fake your way into being a quaint boutique town.  At the first opportunity in the new Ada, were art galleries and high-end clothiers fighting for that space? 
Now, you're already seeing the future of Ada with Cheri's ice cream shop.  I fear it's just going to be a bunch of Amway family-owned boutiques operating at break-even (at best) opening to fill empty storefronts and give the appearance of vibrancy along with some service businesses (Dr. Norman, the eye doctor, the State Farm guy).  And then, who is going to invest in a retail business when you know you will be competing with people who don't have to turn a profit?  Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong.

[GRDadof3]

59 minutes ago, wingbert said:

If the old Heidi Christine's, Grand River Grocery and a bank branch are your definition of crappy and deserving of demolition then there's going to be plenty of work for Pitsch for years to come from Ada to Cascade to EGR.  In reality, those buildings weren't so much unsalvageable as they were in the way of someone's vision.  And for those keeping score at home, the occupancy of the strip mall has actually been solid for the last several years (Zeytin, Spoonlickers, Vitales, eye doctor, McDonalds) but your comment about restaurant of the week makes my point.  Are you saying that a fancier looking building with higher rent is going to solve that issue in this downtown? 
The Mud Room did well for years in a "shoddy outbuilding on the perimeter of the strip mall".  Now they are at Knapp's Corner.  The Thornapple Grill building might've been a little old so hey, let's tear it down.  We'll build an amphitheater on the river because the one between the Amway Grand and Devos Place downtown has been such a raging success.  
And no, I'm not fixated on the liquor store.  The point is that the liquor store is emblematic of the fallacy at the core of this whole concept.  The idea that you can fake your way into being a quaint boutique town.  At the first opportunity in the new Ada, were art galleries and high-end clothiers fighting for that space? 
Now, you're already seeing the future of Ada with Cheri's ice cream shop.  I fear it's just going to be a bunch of Amway family-owned boutiques operating at break-even (at best) opening to fill empty storefronts and give the appearance of vibrancy along with some service businesses (Dr. Norman, the eye doctor, the State Farm guy).  And then, who is going to invest in a retail business when you know you will be competing with people who don't have to turn a profit?  Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong.

I tend to agree with this, and it's an interesting dichotomy. Especially since I know several of the business owners displaced/closed down in this transformation process.

I agree that the strip mall area in Ada was pretty unattractive and car-centric, but it was successful. Now we have downtown Grand Rapids filled with retail space that is pedestrian oriented and it's all mostly empty. 

Many people have the same complaints when a project like New Holland moved into the West Side, or with Meijer coming in and Duthler's and other businesses closing. Yet many of us don't personally know the residents or businesses displaced so we just call the critics Nimby's. Gentrification takes many forms I guess. And yes, I don't throw around the G word often but if residents and businesses are physically displaced for higher rents, then the G word applies. Whether it's good or bad will be debated till the end of time. 

 

[joeDowntown]

Gentrification... of Ada Michigan? Come on. I agree that it's a bummer if they jack up the price per square foot and displace some businesses, but most of the businesses I've seen are not going out of business. They're moving (either in or out of the downtown area). I don't think a place like Vitale's was necessarily forced out, they had a good opportunity to buy/build their own building. Suburbs? I'm sorry, but that was in a crappy location before the construction started (like 8 parking spaces for two businesses). Heidi Christine was happy to move  a few other businesses just moved into new buildings facing Ada drive, a couple moved to different locations (which IMHO is not bad since they moved into buildings that had been struggling).

We celebrate the bulldozing or upgrading of businesses around the city. I'm sure rents drastically increase when this is done. Why are we shedding tears for Ada? 

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most. 

Obviously, if the rents are too high, the developers will have to lower them to attract tenants. That's "progress" people. Like it or not. 

I do think it's ridiculous that a billionaire is opening an ice cream shop, but it's a free world. Hopefully the other shops kick her ass. 

This discussion seems so incredibly hypocritical, it makes my head spin. "Screw the Wild Bunch! I hope Padnos gets the eff out the way of progress! Ellis should sell ALL of its surface lots! Degage should sod off! But by god, don't mess with the fucking place where I make my novelty pottery, or tan my lily white ass in Ada Michigan!"

i really think you guys should chain yourselves to the strip mall with a "save our tanning beds" sign. Activism at its best!

Joe

[MJLO]

26 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

Gentrification... of Ada Michigan? Come on. I agree that it's a bummer if they jack up the price per square foot and displace some businesses, but most of the businesses I've seen are not going out of business. They're moving (either in or out of the downtown area). I don't think a place like Vitale's was necessarily forced out, they had a good opportunity to buy/build their own building. Suburbs? I'm sorry, but that was in a crappy location before the construction started (like 8 parking spaces for two businesses). Heidi Christine was happy to move  a few other businesses just moved into new buildings facing Ada drive, a couple moved to different locations (which IMHO is not bad since they moved into buildings that had been struggling).

We celebrate the bulldozing or upgrading of businesses around the city. I'm sure rents drastically increase when this is done. Why are we shedding tears for Ada? 

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most. 

Obviously, if the rents are too high, the developers will have to lower them to attract tenants. That's "progress" people. Like it or not. 

I do think it's ridiculous that a billionaire is opening an ice cream shop, but it's a free world. Hopefully the other shops kick her ass. 

This discussion seems so incredibly hypocritical, it makes my head spin. "Screw the Wild Bunch! I hope Padnos gets the eff out the way of progress! Ellis should sell ALL of its surface lots! Degage should sod off! But by god, don't mess with the fucking place where I make my novelty pottery, or tan my lily white ass in Ada Michigan!"

i really think you guys should chain yourselves to the strip mall with a "save our tanning beds" sign. Activism at its best!

Joe

I dunno Joe.  I think it'd make a fantastic NPR story about Gentrification being so bad in Ada Michigan McDonalds was forced to move. 

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Gentrification... of Ada Michigan? Come on. I agree that it's a bummer if they jack up the price per square foot and displace some businesses, but most of the businesses I've seen are not going out of business. They're moving (either in or out of the downtown area). I don't think a place like Vitale's was necessarily forced out, they had a good opportunity to buy/build their own building. Suburbs? I'm sorry, but that was in a crappy location before the construction started (like 8 parking spaces for two businesses). Heidi Christine was happy to move  a few other businesses just moved into new buildings facing Ada drive, a couple moved to different locations (which IMHO is not bad since they moved into buildings that had been struggling).

We celebrate the bulldozing or upgrading of businesses around the city. I'm sure rents drastically increase when this is done. Why are we shedding tears for Ada? 

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most. 

Obviously, if the rents are too high, the developers will have to lower them to attract tenants. That's "progress" people. Like it or not. 

I do think it's ridiculous that a billionaire is opening an ice cream shop, but it's a free world. Hopefully the other shops kick her ass. 

This discussion seems so incredibly hypocritical, it makes my head spin. "Screw the Wild Bunch! I hope Padnos gets the eff out the way of progress! Ellis should sell ALL of its surface lots! Degage should sod off! But by god, don't mess with the fucking place where I make my novelty pottery, or tan my lily white ass in Ada Michigan!"

i really think you guys should chain yourselves to the strip mall with a "save our tanning beds" sign. Activism at its best!

Joe

I make more income than probably 80% of Ada residents and I still think this redevelopment is starting to stink.  And gentrification doesn't actually require a business to go out of business. Just like it doesn't require a displaced resident to die on the streets, lol. 

I think someone nailed it though, it will turn out being a bunch of Amway family boutiques, like a little playground/sandbox for the kids to try out their own small business ideas with no fear if they even break even or not. 

I do feel bad for the displaced business owners. But I can't see myself even going to any of the new shopping district area, not even Kingma's, so it doesn't really matter to me what goes in in the new sections. I don't go to the current Kingma's, which is about the same distance. I'll continue to patronize businesses in the "old" Ada like I have in the past, like Nonna's, Scoopers, Schnitz, and Ada Bike Shop. 

Anyone want to place bets on Rick Devos opening a fixie bike shop?  Or a Seqway/Apple store? Or a store that sells prototypes of new State of Michigan flags. 

Maybe I'll skip Ada altogether and go to Rockford more.

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I make more income than probably 80% of Ada residents and I still think this redevelopment is starting to stink.

 

[WMrapids]

Lil Wayne talking about banging in the shower on store speakers in East Grand Rapids. People stumbling out drunk from the liquor store in Ada. I need to get out of here.

I'm taking my money and moving to adore near the new outlet mall.

[GRDadof3]

10 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

 

Pretty well. When you denigrate people on the forum for how much money they DON'T make, you're pretty much just asking for it dished back at ya.

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most.

If that wasn't your intent, I don't really know what that sentence means then. 

Plus, I think we ALL could not take all of this stuff so personally. I only know a few people on this forum who have ACTUAL skin in the game on anything we post about.

Peace.

 

[wingbert]

14 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Gentrification... of Ada Michigan? Come on. I agree that it's a bummer if they jack up the price per square foot and displace some businesses, but most of the businesses I've seen are not going out of business. They're moving (either in or out of the downtown area). I don't think a place like Vitale's was necessarily forced out, they had a good opportunity to buy/build their own building. Suburbs? I'm sorry, but that was in a crappy location before the construction started (like 8 parking spaces for two businesses). Heidi Christine was happy to move  a few other businesses just moved into new buildings facing Ada drive, a couple moved to different locations (which IMHO is not bad since they moved into buildings that had been struggling).

We celebrate the bulldozing or upgrading of businesses around the city. I'm sure rents drastically increase when this is done. Why are we shedding tears for Ada? 

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most. 

Obviously, if the rents are too high, the developers will have to lower them to attract tenants. That's "progress" people. Like it or not. 

I do think it's ridiculous that a billionaire is opening an ice cream shop, but it's a free world. Hopefully the other shops kick her ass. 

This discussion seems so incredibly hypocritical, it makes my head spin. "Screw the Wild Bunch! I hope Padnos gets the eff out the way of progress! Ellis should sell ALL of its surface lots! Degage should sod off! But by god, don't mess with the fudgeing place where I make my novelty pottery, or tan my lily white ass in Ada Michigan!"

i really think you guys should chain yourselves to the strip mall with a "save our tanning beds" sign. Activism at its best!

Joe

When you have to resort to cursing you might just as well concede you've lost the argument.

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Pretty well. When you denigrate people on the forum for how much money they DON'T make, you're pretty much just asking for it dished back at ya.

I personally think there is a lot of bias in their discussion. Either towards Amway/the DeVos family or a town that has a larger income than most.

If that wasn't your intent, I don't really know what that sentence means then. 

Plus, I think we ALL could not take all of this stuff so personally. I only know a few people on this forum who have ACTUAL skin in the game on anything we post about.

Peace.

 

What I was actually saying is that there seems to be a lot of negativity, and to me, it seems to be based on the economics of the the area (if this same development was being built on the Old Studio 28 site, would people be so harsh? Doubt it) AND the family involved in development. A lot of pent up "dislike" for the development. You throw a lot of shade on this forum. You should be able to take a little ribbing back.

Moderator dance fight? LOL

Joe

[GRDadof3]

9 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

What I was actually saying is that there seems to be a lot of negativity, and to me, it seems to be based on the economics of the the area (if this same development was being built on the Old Studio 28 site, would people be so harsh? Doubt it) AND the family involved in development. A lot of pent up "dislike" for the development. You throw a lot of shade on this forum. You should be able to take a little ribbing back.

Moderator dance fight? LOL

Joe

Bring it!   #whitepeopleproblems

[WMrapids]

So Rivertown recently removed the signage on the mall and just painted a simple "Rivertown Crossings" at the entrance. You can still see the remnants of where the signage was and it just looks bad.

Edit: Actually it's a banner. Hopefully they fix it up pretty well. Any news on what else may be happening there?

Edited August 1, 2017 by WMrapids

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, WMrapids said:

So Rivertown recently removed the signage on the mall and just painted a simple "Rivertown Crossings" at the entrance. You can still see the remnants of where the signage was and it just looks bad.

Edit: Actually it's a banner. Hopefully they fix it up pretty well. Any news on what else may be happening there?

This mall always struck me more as fair-like than coastal-like. Between the colors and the stars, it was just too busy. I hope that this is a sign of changes to come. They really need an update if they want to continue on with the coastal theme. Also, clean that stucco. It's getting gross. 

[MJLO]

20 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

This mall always struck me more as fair-like than coastal-like. Between the colors and the stars, it was just too busy. I hope that this is a sign of changes to come. They really need an update if they want to continue on with the coastal theme. Also, clean that stucco. It's getting gross. 

It's hard for me to believe that it's going to be 18 years old in November.  It seems like Woodland has been renovated 3 times in that span, and it's going through another one.  I wonder if General Growth doesn't have the financial position to invest in it, or if they are just using it as a cash cow and letting it decline.  Either way that mall needs to be better managed or PREIT is going to completely take back the high end mall segment in town.

[mpchicago]

GGP is doing some minor refreshments.  They are updating the color schemes, specifically the mauve truss work on the interior, fresh paint on the entrances, and new signage.  No major work, and should be done by the holidays.

Edited August 1, 2017 by mpchicago

[GRLaker]

5 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

GGP is doing some minor refreshments.  They are updating the color schemes, specifically the mauve truss work in the interior, fresh paint on the entrances, and new signage.  No major work, just a refresh.  Work should be done by the holidays.

Well at least they're giving it a minor facelift. Better than having it sit there as-is. 

[mpchicago]

This mall was going up the same time as GGP's mall in Frisco, TX.   Even at the time, I thought that the Frisco mall was getting better finishes, and seemed more refined than Rivertown. Glad they are doing something.  They may end up doing more if the Woodland project comes to full fruition.