Suburban Projects

[discgrab21]

New development approved in the Wyoming Panhandle.  Extending the existing Rivertown Valley PUD all the way to Wislon & 56th.  As the Mlive Article notes, it will add 175 SF homes, 138 Single Story Flats (intended to be marketed to empty nesters), 110 townhomes and 190 luxury apartments.  They are maxing out he available density at 3.97 units per acre.  There is about 3.75 acres zoned for commercial along Wilson just south of 56th.   The NIMBY's fought hard and long against anything but all SF for the undeveloped land there, and they were winning that fight until the tides tarted to turn at the beginning of this year.  But, the City Council misapplied a protest petition which gave Granger enough room for a non-frivolous lawsuit.  Granger and the city worked together to arrive at the final ODP and settle the suit.  The Plats have been approved, and work is likely to begin shortly  from what I understand.

I got roped into the dispute a little more than a year ago at the suggestion of my wife.  The goalpost moving from the NIMBY's was quite a sight to behold.  From Apartments will lower my property values (one homeowner had a notarized  letter that 370 apartment units would drop her property value by up to 25%, even with 185 new single family units directly adjacent to hers);  to the schools can't handle it (Grandville schools assured the city they could handle any added capacity); to too much density;  and that we don't want "these people",  (i.e. renters, not POC) in our neighborhood, on top of the usual trite NIMBY concerns. 

It became clear after a few years of trying to work with neighbors that nothing but exclusively single family homes would appease the NIMBYs, and Granger got sick of it and decided it was time to play hardball.

Anyway, not the most exciting development, but an interesting personal experience for me.  

https://www.mlive.com/byron-center/index.ssf/2018/09/wyoming_granger_group_settle_l.html

 

[GRLaker]

34 minutes ago, discgrab21 said:

New development approved in the Wyoming Panhandle.  Extending the existing Rivertown Valley PUD all the way to Wislon & 56th.  As the Mlive Article notes, it will add 175 SF homes, 138 Single Story Flats (intended to be marketed to empty nesters), 110 townhomes and 190 luxury apartments.  They are maxing out he available density at 3.97 units per acre.  There is about 3.75 acres zoned for commercial along Wilson just south of 56th.   The NIMBY's fought hard and long against anything but all SF for the undeveloped land there, and they were winning that fight until the tides tarted to turn at the beginning of this year.  But, the City Council misapplied a protest petition which gave Granger enough room for a non-frivolous lawsuit.  Granger and the city worked together to arrive at the final ODP and settle the suit.  The Plats have been approved, and work is likely to begin shortly  from what I understand.

I got roped into the dispute a little more than a year ago at the suggestion of my wife.  The goalpost moving from the NIMBY's was quite a sight to behold.  From Apartments will lower my property values (one homeowner had a notarized  letter that 370 apartment units would drop her property value by up to 25%, even with 185 new single family units directly adjacent to hers);  to the schools can't handle it (Grandville schools assured the city they could handle any added capacity); to too much density;  and that we don't want "these people",  (i.e. renters, not POC) in our neighborhood, on top of the usual trite NIMBY concerns. 

It became clear after a few years of trying to work with neighbors that nothing but exclusively single family homes would appease the NIMBYs, and Granger got sick of it and decided it was time to play hardball.

Anyway, not the most exciting development, but an interesting personal experience for me.  

https://www.mlive.com/byron-center/index.ssf/2018/09/wyoming_granger_group_settle_l.html

 

What exactly is a single story flat? A standard condo?

Having driven through the existing residential before...it looks like the homes were mainly built by Allen Edwin or a builder of similar quality. I'm not sure what kind of status they think their neighborhood has right now, but it's not above luxury apartments being in the vicinity or a group of condos.

Also, Grandville can more than take in what this development would throw their way. The enrollment of Grandville has flatlined and the high school has been shrinking steadily since the recession when it peaked at over 2,000 students. It now has just over 1,700.

Edited September 13, 2018 by GRLaker

[discgrab21]

14 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

What exactly is a single story flat? A standard condo?

Having driven through the existing residential before...it looks like the homes were mainly built by Allen Edwin or a builder of similar quality. I'm not sure what kind of status they think their neighborhood has right now, but it's not above luxury apartments being in the vicinity or a group of condos.

Also, Grandville can more than take in what this development would throw their way. The enrollment of Grandville has flatlined and the high school has been shrinking steadily since the recession when it peaked at over 2,000 students. It now has just over 1,700.

Single story flat is the label they settled on for their condo-style units.  Most will be built on a slab, with some taking advantage of natural terrain to put in a walk-out basement.  They are not called condos because they are not for sale and there will not be any condominium established/recorded.

As for the existing neighborhood, when that development slowed way down a little more than 10-years ago, Allen Edwin did indeed build out many of the lots, though not "mainly built" by.  Granger would not allow Allen Edwin to build there at all post-recession, and the Phase 3 was built out over the last 2 or so years using Mayberry exclusively.  I believe those houses were more in the $300-$375k range, and of much nicer design and quality than the Allen Edwin homes (not that high of a hurdle to clear admittedly), but those 37 new houses really changed expectations of the quality of housing that should be in the neighborhood.

Most of the opposition came from the Del Mar neighborhood on the west side of Wilson actually.

Also, i just got word, the groundbreaking ceremony will be September 27. 

[GRLaker]

3 minutes ago, discgrab21 said:

Single story flat is the label they settled on for their condo-style units.  Most will be built on a slab, with some taking advantage of natural terrain to put in a walk-out basement.  They are not called condos because they are not for sale and there will not be any condominium established/recorded.

As for the existing neighborhood, when that development slowed way down a little more than 10-years ago, Allen Edwin did indeed build out many of the lots, though not "mainly built" by.  Granger would not allow Allen Edwin to build there at all post-recession, and the Phase 3 was built out over the last 2 or so years using Mayberry exclusively.  I believe those houses were more in the $300-$375k range, and of much nicer design and quality than the Allen Edwin homes (not that high of a hurdle to clear admittedly), but those 37 new houses really changed expectations of the quality of housing that should be in the neighborhood.

Most of the opposition came from the Del Mar neighborhood on the west side of Wilson actually.

Also, i just got word, the groundbreaking ceremony will be September 27. 

Del-Mar is a nice neighborhood and I highly doubt that this development will affect their property values in any way. I'm glad Granger was able to get the project moving.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, discgrab21 said:

New development approved in the Wyoming Panhandle.  Extending the existing Rivertown Valley PUD all the way to Wislon & 56th.  As the Mlive Article notes, it will add 175 SF homes, 138 Single Story Flats (intended to be marketed to empty nesters), 110 townhomes and 190 luxury apartments.  They are maxing out he available density at 3.97 units per acre.  There is about 3.75 acres zoned for commercial along Wilson just south of 56th.   The NIMBY's fought hard and long against anything but all SF for the undeveloped land there, and they were winning that fight until the tides tarted to turn at the beginning of this year.  But, the City Council misapplied a protest petition which gave Granger enough room for a non-frivolous lawsuit.  Granger and the city worked together to arrive at the final ODP and settle the suit.  The Plats have been approved, and work is likely to begin shortly  from what I understand.

I got roped into the dispute a little more than a year ago at the suggestion of my wife.  The goalpost moving from the NIMBY's was quite a sight to behold.  From Apartments will lower my property values (one homeowner had a notarized  letter that 370 apartment units would drop her property value by up to 25%, even with 185 new single family units directly adjacent to hers);  to the schools can't handle it (Grandville schools assured the city they could handle any added capacity); to too much density;  and that we don't want "these people",  (i.e. renters, not POC) in our neighborhood, on top of the usual trite NIMBY concerns. 

It became clear after a few years of trying to work with neighbors that nothing but exclusively single family homes would appease the NIMBYs, and Granger got sick of it and decided it was time to play hardball.

Anyway, not the most exciting development, but an interesting personal experience for me.  

https://www.mlive.com/byron-center/index.ssf/2018/09/wyoming_granger_group_settle_l.html

 

I think this is a very exciting development.  Finally some much needed housing in Metro GR.  I hope we see more of these large scale developments in the area.  

 

EDIT:  Is there a timeline for this?

Edited September 13, 2018 by Floyd_Z

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, discgrab21 said:

Single story flat is the label they settled on for their condo-style units.  Most will be built on a slab, with some taking advantage of natural terrain to put in a walk-out basement.  They are not called condos because they are not for sale and there will not be any condominium established/recorded.

As for the existing neighborhood, when that development slowed way down a little more than 10-years ago, Allen Edwin did indeed build out many of the lots, though not "mainly built" by.  Granger would not allow Allen Edwin to build there at all post-recession, and the Phase 3 was built out over the last 2 or so years using Mayberry exclusively.  I believe those houses were more in the $300-$375k range, and of much nicer design and quality than the Allen Edwin homes (not that high of a hurdle to clear admittedly), but those 37 new houses really changed expectations of the quality of housing that should be in the neighborhood.

Most of the opposition came from the Del Mar neighborhood on the west side of Wilson actually.

Also, i just got word, the groundbreaking ceremony will be September 27. 

I thought it was Mayberry Homes out of Lansing. I think it was their first foray into this market and I'm not sure it went very well for them. 

[discgrab21]

55 minutes ago, Floyd_Z said:

I think this is a very exciting development.  Finally some much needed housing in Metro GR.  I hope we see more of these large scale developments in the area.  

 

EDIT:  Is there a timeline for this?

Official groundbreaking ceremony September 27th.    They have been very anxious to develop this land for a long time.  I don't what their plan is for the build out as far where they are starting. 

[discgrab21]

43 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I thought it was Mayberry Homes out of Lansing. I think it was their first foray into this market and I'm not sure it went very well for them. 

Mayberry was just brought on for the 37-log Phase 3.  It is my understanding as well that it was their first foothold in the area, but I think it must have gone well for them.

Last I went through that part of the neighborhood, there was only one unsold home, and that was being used as a model.  They were building at least three houses at any given time, and they sold like crazy.  I can't speak to what their arrangement was with Granger, who owns the land and is responsible for the development, so I don't know what kind of money they made to assess whether it went well, but I have to assume with how fast those houses were built and occupied, that it did go very well.  It is likely they will be on board for the additional single family homes on tap for the new development. 

[GRDadof3]

7 minutes ago, discgrab21 said:

Mayberry was just brought on for the 37-log Phase 3.  It is my understanding as well that it was their first foothold in the area, but I think it must have gone well for them.

Last I went through that part of the neighborhood, there was only one unsold home, and that was being used as a model.  They were building at least three houses at any given time, and they sold like crazy.  I can't speak to what their arrangement was with Granger, who owns the land and is responsible for the development, so I don't know what kind of money they made to assess whether it went well, but I have to assume with how fast those houses were built and occupied, that it did go very well.  It is likely they will be on board for the additional single family homes on tap for the new development. 

I think it took them 3 years to sell all of those(?), and really should have taken about half that time at that price point. That's what I heard anyway. Instead of 3 homes at any given time they should have been building about a dozen. West Michiganders don't like "outsiders" or national building companies so it may not have been their fault. 

[discgrab21]

21 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think it took them 3 years to sell all of those(?), and really should have taken about half that time at that price point. That's what I heard anyway. Instead of 3 homes at any given time they should have been building about a dozen. West Michiganders don't like "outsiders" or national building companies so it may not have been their fault. 

2-2.5 years.  They have been done for a while now.  I just assumed that it was a matter of a labor shortage that kept them from putting up more at once.  At least that something I keep hearing/reading about in the skilled trades.    

Granger has not done a lot of residential in general, and this may be the only SFH development that they have done.   In fact, on their website, the only other residential project listed in their portfolio is a condo development in Lansing.  They only built a couple of the houses on spec , so maybe the issue was marketing by Granger?  When people think of building new in Grand Rapids, most probably haven't even heard of Granger or considered Mayberry outside of mid-michigan.

I could see that being a sour note for Mayberry. But I hope it wasn't so that they stay on for the rest of the project, because they did a really nice job.

[GRDadof3]

11 minutes ago, discgrab21 said:

2-2.5 years.  They have been done for a while now.  I just assumed that it was a matter of a labor shortage that kept them from putting up more at once.  At least that something I keep hearing/reading about in the skilled trades.    

Granger has not done a lot of residential in general, and this may be the only SFH development that they have done.   In fact, on their website, the only other residential project listed in their portfolio is a condo development in Lansing.  They only built a couple of the houses on spec , so maybe the issue was marketing by Granger?  When people think of building new in Grand Rapids, most probably haven't even heard of Granger or considered Mayberry outside of mid-michigan.

I could see that being a sour note for Mayberry. But I hope it wasn't so that they stay on for the rest of the project, because they did a really nice job.

Well I would put their homes on the same level as Allen Edwin and let's.... just leave it at that.

[discgrab21]

3 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Well I would put their homes on the same level as Allen Edwin and let's just ...."

That's interesting, and I would not have thought that.  From the AE homes I have been in that were lived in, I know they don't hold up well, and I personally don't think their designs are very attractive.  I liked the looks of the mayberry homes in Rivertown Valley much better, and having gone through the models the floor plans seemed well conceived and it seemed like quality construction.  But I admit,  these are my own limited and lay observations--I am far from any sort of industry insider or expert.

 

(GRDad's quote edited out of respect and courtesy)

Edited September 14, 2018 by discgrab21

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, discgrab21 said:

That's interesting, and I would not have thought that.  From the AE homes I have been in that were lived in, I know they don't hold up well, and I personally don't think their designs are very attractive.  I liked the looks of the mayberry homes in Rivertown Valley much better, and having gone through the models the floor plans seemed well conceived and it seemed like quality construction.  But I admit,  these are my own limited and lay observations--I am far from any sort of industry insider or expert.

I edited my comment but you must've grabbed it before then.  I won't say anything more. 

[WMrapids]

Hopefully pulling some people into that area will make Granger think about developing more around Metro Health as well.

[GRDadof3]

I saw the other day that the hotly contested townhouse project near downtown Rockford has quietly started. I wondered what had happened to it. The opposition was getting a bit silly. 

https://www.mlive.com/rockford/index.ssf/2018/09/construction_of_controversial.html

[joeDowntown]

5 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I saw the other day that the hotly contested townhouse project near downtown Rockford has quietly started. I wondered what had happened to it. The opposition was getting a bit silly. 

https://www.mlive.com/rockford/index.ssf/2018/09/construction_of_controversial.html

From what I remember, it ended up becoming quite the political hot potato (and people in power broke the rules). I think the developer filed a lawsuit and they backed down. 

Always seemed really stupid to me. Downtown Rockford from a retail/commercial perspective, but downtown residential has always lagged (I personally think it never did well because the god awful smell from the tannery / a lot of the houses ended up being rentals). 

Rockford is so walkable, this may be a step in the right direction for residential close to their downtown. 

Joe

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

From what I remember, it ended up becoming quite the political hot potato (and people in power broke the rules). I think the developer filed a lawsuit and they backed down. 

Always seemed really stupid to me. Downtown Rockford from a retail/commercial perspective, but downtown residential has always lagged (I personally think it never did well because the god awful smell from the tannery / a lot of the houses ended up being rentals). 

Rockford is so walkable, this may be a step in the right direction for residential close to their downtown. 

Joe

I love downtown Rockford, especially in the fall. But I don't think I would ever risk living around there with everything that has come out about the ground water. It's a shame, because it's a beautiful area.

[GRDadof3]

On 10/10/2018 at 4:20 PM, GRLaker said:

I love downtown Rockford, especially in the fall. But I don't think I would ever risk living around there with everything that has come out about the ground water. It's a shame, because it's a beautiful area.

If you're on city water and sewer there in the city of Rockford you really don't have to worry about it. It's a lot of the wells in Plainfield Twp that are contaminated, West of there.  Rockford had their system tested and the Rockford municipal water system was free of PFAS:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/01/pfas_rockford_water_wolverine.html

If you were on the system before the year 2000, it may have been. They completely changed their system source after that. 

[GRDadof3]

Wow! I think it's pretty impressive that both apartment complexes are 94%+ occupancy.

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/nyc-investor-pays-215-3-million-for-ramblewood-woodlake-apartment-complexes?fbclid=IwAR3I7TtaaJdULLnlTnkaIkoJQANAF2V8RJqvQyy98BYyS2B5owPyCRQRwkA

[walker]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Wow! I think it's pretty impressive that both apartment complexes are 94%+ occupancy.

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/nyc-investor-pays-215-3-million-for-ramblewood-woodlake-apartment-complexes?fbclid=IwAR3I7TtaaJdULLnlTnkaIkoJQANAF2V8RJqvQyy98BYyS2B5owPyCRQRwkA

Considering the premium price they paid, the new owners either didn’t do their due diligence or they have been reading the comments about the nearby castle and don’t see it as much of a threat.   

[MJLO]

I'm not surprised by that sale price honestly.  The two properties used to just be Ramblewood North and South, until they were sold by AIMCO. Together they easily have more than 3 times the units the castle does(and in a better location in terms of retail/grocery access).  Ramblewood South(Woodlake) in particular has some fairly unique and open floor-plans.  They are quite progressive for the time period they were built.   After it acquired the properties from the original developers,  AIMCO neglected the properties and the management team was known for predatory and dishonest business practices.  There's nowhere for the reputation to go but up.  The properties are income ready as is, but if the new ownership does actual renovations beyond the superficial appointments done by AIMCO, they might be able to flip it again.

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, MJLO said:

I'm not surprised by that sale price honestly.  The two properties used to just be Ramblewood North and South, until they were sold by AIMCO. Together they easily have more than 3 times the units the castle does(and in a better location in terms of retail/grocery access).  Ramblewood South(Woodlake) in particular has some fairly unique and open floor-plans.  They are quite progressive for the time period they were built.   After it acquired the properties from the original developers,  AIMCO neglected the properties and the management team was known for predatory and dishonest business practices.  There's nowhere for the reputation to go but up.  The properties are income ready as is, but if the new ownership does actual renovations beyond the superficial appointments done by AIMCO, they might be able to flip it again.

Yes, I think the article said it's over 1700 apartment units. The new owners are probably investors (Chinese) just looking for a safe (cash flow positive) place to park money for 10 years. 

New owners:

http://www.torchlightinvestors.com/

[GRDadof3]

It'd be hard to imagine Rivertown Crossings closing, but losing two anchors would certainly require a major reboot (not just decorative). Considering it's smack dab in the middle of the retail mecca of most of Ottawa County puts it in quite a position to do something major. 

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/executives-rivertown-crossings-likely-to-see-some-form-of-redevelopment

[Pattmost20]

11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

retail mecca of most of Ottawa County

Which is funny because it is in Kent County. I know what you mean as most of Jenison and Hudsonville shop there, and most people associate Grandville with the other burbs to the west. Even the fact that Bill Huizenga has his office right there in Grandville always throws me off, as I associate the Second District mostly with Ottawa County.

As for the mall I do hope they go the route of renovation instead of just trying to sell it off. Working out there I notice that the streets are busy, the restaurants are busy, most of the shops along Rivertown Parkway are busy, yet the mall feels dead. It needs to go the way of Eastbrook/Centerpoint and de-mall.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Pattmost20

[MJLO]

A big part of Rivertown's problem was the total lack of investment by GGP over the last 10 years.  It virtually looks the same as it did the day it opened(minus the visible wear and neglect of the facilities).   Woodland is a property that is more than 30 years older than Rivertown.  It has received a steady stream of investment and re-imaging over the last 20 years, which is why it's in a much healthier position.   The notion that this area is too small for the kind of investment needed to bring the Rivertown to a healthy level is absurd.   Show me another 1.5 million person growing retail market that can't support 2 super regional centers.  Again we are being told by "experts" outside of West Michigan that the area is "too small".   In this case the Mi-Biz article is relying on expertise from the director of a Detroit area real estate firm.   It could be that Brookfield Capital only invests in properties in 2 million+ markets who knows.   In that case by all means put lipstick on that piggy and flip it to a company that will actually invest in it.   

Never forget that outside "experts" were behind the decision for Bank of America to more or less vacate this market.  Then only to rush back into GR as a "new" market a couple years later(once they realized the level of economic potential and growth they abandoned).   My favorite example of outside "experts" underestimating this area would be Trader Joe's.  They built a smaller format store that could be converted to something else when it didn't work out.  Three years later they still have to store extra product outside behind the building, because they don't have anywhere near the storage space they need to support the volume at that location.    I don't know if the Western Michigan commercial real estate and economic development arms need to do a better job of educating outside "experts" on the true potential of the area.   Perhaps the people making these decisions from offices in major metropolitan areas need to adjust the formulaic ways they make these decisions.   What's clear is they consistently get it wrong here.