Suburban Projects

[joeDowntown]

28 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Sort of a surprise but not really.  Twisted Rooster on the Beltline is closing and the owners are trying a new format:

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/money/business/twisted-rooster-closed-will-reopen-as-brunch-restaurant-later-this-summer/69-d213cdd0-6511-42d1-82fa-bb78d02e2ba7

The North East Beltline is a meat grinder for restaurants.

 

I’m pretty surprised actually. It was a busy place. We rarely went at a time where it wasn’t near capacity or had a bit of a wait. The only thing I didn’t like is that was starting to smell like stale beer. That smell gives me flashbacks to my days doing bottle returns (hand count, no crusher, with stale beer all over my hands).

I don’t know if Meritage isn’t very good at sticking with its own concepts, gets bored, or isn’t very original. Seems like the non-Wendy’s restaurants are always being “reinvented”. 

Joe

[GVSUChris]

Interesting. Always great to see the "urban" fabrics of suburbs getting attention too! 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/boutique-hotel-plans-to-come-to-downtown-rockford/2051560546

[joeDowntown]

3 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

Interesting. Always great to see the "urban" fabrics of suburbs getting attention too! 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/boutique-hotel-plans-to-come-to-downtown-rockford/2051560546

Nice. I think it'll do well. I can imagine there is a lot of business travel to Wolverine, yet there isn't a proper hotel for miles (the one across from 5/3 ballpark?).

Joe

[Guest]

I always thought that little four story building was a hotel, but I guess not...

Quote

RV Towers. Rogue Valley Towers is a four-story high-rise located at 59 South Main Street, in downtown Rockford, Michigan. read more ...

four-story high rise lol

[GRDadof3]

8 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Nice. I think it'll do well. I can imagine there is a lot of business travel to Wolverine, yet there isn't a proper hotel for miles (the one across from 5/3 ballpark?).

Joe

Agreed I think it will do well. I always thought the building on the river that housed Green Well would make a good hotel. 

[joeDowntown]

14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Agreed I think it will do well. I always thought the building on the river that housed Green Well would make a good hotel. 

Wolverine proposed a hotel at that location before the current building was built. Don't know why the plans fell through, but they obviously felt there was a need for a hotel close to HQ. 

Joe

[MJLO]

Does anyone know what's happening with that group of buildings(I think they are hotels)  being built out by 60th and Patterson?  I meant to ask a few days ago, I drove by Friday night and they seem to be in the same state they have been for months.  Not much evidence of activity, they look almost as if the project has stalled.

[GR8scott]

2 hours ago, MJLO said:

Does anyone know what's happening with that group of buildings(I think they are hotels)  being built out by 60th and Patterson?  I meant to ask a few days ago, I drove by Friday night and they seem to be in the same state they have been for months.  Not much evidence of activity, they look almost as if the project has stalled.

My guess is two hotels announced just after all the Switch hoopla....A "Marriott" and (another) Holiday Inn Express. The hopeful in me said this is great to have the only "actual" flagship Marriott in the area but skeptic in me said its probably a 3 story courtyard or some other partial service marriott family that already has multiple locations in town. I found this and appears not only was the skeptic correct, it appears to be the same exact hotels built next to Meijer...lame

https://cascadetwp.com/getattachment/8fd55b6d-d86a-4b66-95e3-a869d001903a/170807.aspx

 

[walker]

I've been curious for different reasons about two infill projects in Wyoming on 36th Street.  They are about a half mile apart and appear to be unrelated but as it turns out they've got the same developer.  Since they are different projects I'll post each one separate.   First, I've driven by this new construction that popped up suddenly  It is reminiscent of a small mom and pop motel built in the fifties in the U.P.  Not a motel apparently but who builds something like this anymore except in the U.P. maybe?

Can't see it very well but there is a generic for rent sign, the kind you can buy in a hardware store, outside the corner unit near the street, just behind the do not park sign attached to the yellow caution tape.   Even though this is Wyoming and not Grand Rapids, who would think you could even build something like this without goings through a lot of hoops?   Seems like a good affordable housing solution.  Those units are probably still larger than the apartment I had when I was twenty that was carved out of a house in Heritage Hill before it was Heritage Hill.

So to see who is behind this, I looked it up on the handy parcel lookup site:

     

Then I looked up the LLC.  Grandview Ventures LLC turns out is solely owned by Dan Burrill, a real estate agent and apparently also a developer.  Never heard of him before but then there are a lot of people I've never heard of.  He also has a side gig as a Wyoming city councilman.  

I like this, I just find it unusual.

FOOTNOTE: whose behind grandview ventures

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by walker
for the inevitable typo

[walker]

OK, here is the other infill project.  This one is at the corner of 36th and Burlingame.  It used to be an elementary school.  I think it was called West Elementary.  The school was torn down a few years ago.   The same years ago, my wife was on a committee of a non-profit that was looking for a place to build housing for disabled people and they were seriously looking at this property.   That deal didn't go through and she moved on to other things and is no longer involved with that group.  But we noticed there is some grading going on there and a cul-de sac street is being put in off of Burlingame.  There are no building permits or adverting signs on the property.  Today I took a couple of photos of the site, the first I took from the opposite corner by the Speedway station, nothing much to see here:

   

The second photo is from the far opposite side of the lot and shows the street:

What's interesting is this appears to be a private street since it has no storm drains except for one just off Burlingame and it has non-standard for Wyoming curbing.  It also appears to be a little narrow but I'm not sure.  While this neighborhood is OK, it is not a neighborhood where you are likely to build 450K houses or 280K condos.  And because of the utility stakes, I'd say they are planning on single houses rather than multi unit condos or apartments.  So what could it be?

Again I looked in the parcel lookup and it turns out it too is Grandview Ventures LLC. 

Unlike Grand Rapids, I can't find Wyoming council meetings or planning commission meeting or permits on line.  I suppose I could just call their planning people but that would take the mystery out of it. 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by walker
fix typo

[Pattmost20]

Dan Burrill is an agent with Five Star, the company I work for does most of his title insurance. I know we did the one on 36th street. I don't have any info on what his intentions are, just know that he bought it about a year ago.

[ModSquad]

5 hours ago, walker said:

I've been curious for different reasons about two infill projects in Wyoming on 36th Street.  They are about a half mile apart and appear to be unrelated but as it turns out they've got the same developer.  Since they are different projects I'll post each one separate.   First, I've driven by this new construction that popped up suddenly  It is reminiscent of a small mom and pop motel built in the fifties in the U.P.  Not a motel apparently but who builds something like this anymore except in the U.P. maybe?

Can't see it very well but there is a generic for rent sign, the kind you can buy in a hardware store, outside the corner unit near the street, just behind the do not park sign attached to the yellow caution tape.   Even though this is Wyoming and not Grand Rapids, who would think you could even build something like this without goings through a lot of hoops?   Seems like a good affordable housing solution.  Those units are probably still larger than the apartment I had when I was twenty that was carved out of a house in Heritage Hill before it was Heritage Hill.

So to see who is behind this, I looked it up on the handy parcel lookup site:

     

Then I looked up the LLC.  Grandview Ventures LLC turns out is solely owned by Dan Burrill, a real estate agent and apparently also a developer.  Never heard of him before

 

Dan is also a City if Wyoming Commissioner

[destijl]

23 hours ago, walker said:

OK, here is the other infill project.  This one is at the corner of 36th and Burlingame.  It used to be an elementary school.  I think it was called West Elementary. 

It was actually East Elementary (formerly East Newhall School). My sixth grade classroom was in the basement. 

[GRDadof3]

I love the new restaurant in EGR at the corner of Wealthy and Lovett when you first come into downtown. Called Gaslight Kitchen Asian Cuisine. Finally livens up that corner. Haven't tried the food yet! 

[WMrapids]

Lands’ End, Carhartt stores moving in to CenterPoint

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2019/08/lands-end-carhartt-among-six-stores-coming-to-grand-rapids-shopping-center.html

[mpchicago]

On 5/28/2019 at 8:25 PM, GRDadof3 said:

Sort of a surprise but not really.  Twisted Rooster on the Beltline is closing and the owners are trying a new format:

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/money/business/twisted-rooster-closed-will-reopen-as-brunch-restaurant-later-this-summer/69-d213cdd0-6511-42d1-82fa-bb78d02e2ba7

The North East Beltline is a meat grinder for restaurants.

 

The replacement for the Twister Rooster, Morning Belle, is set to open on 9.26.     I think they are trying this concept considering Anna's House success in this arena.

https://www.grmag.com/food-drink/morning-belle-schedules-opening/

 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, mpchicago said:

The replacement for the Twister Rooster, Morning Belle, is set to open on 9.26.     I think they are trying this concept considering Anna's House success in this arena.

https://www.grmag.com/food-drink/morning-belle-schedules-opening/

 

They are going all in on this concept as they announced they'll be opening 35 locations. This is the "pilot" restaurant.

Joe

[Allison Slater]

5 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

They are going all in on this concept as they announced they'll be opening 35 locations. This is the "pilot" restaurant.

Joe

I seem to recall them saying the same about their taco place that failed.

[joeDowntown]

3 minutes ago, tSlater said:

I seem to recall them saying the same about their taco place that failed.

True. I imagine Meritage has always wanted to build their own signature franchise. Looks like they’re making a another run at it (I believe twisted rooster was intended to have a lot of locations). I did read that they are building four Morning Belle’s in 2020. 

Joe

[MJLO]

The skepticism I have with Meritage and these concepts is that it’s very difficult “flash create” a successful chain.  Almost every mainstream, or mid level restaurant chain out there started organically.   The biggest hurdle is that it’s very difficult to effectively manage your brand with out passionate and dedicated employees.  Especially in the current cut throat labor market.   IMO  they would be better off simply purchasing an established name like Anna’s House and building off of that vs. creating their own from scratch.  

Look at Bagger Dave’s vs. Hopcat.   Mark Sellers started off with just the Grand Rapids location, and slowly and deliberately started opening locations in other areas.   In that time he’s closed one, maybe 2 of the locations he started.  Bagger Dave’s was a concept started by a large Buffalo Wild Wings franchise and they grew the brand to over 40 locations within 3 years.   When anything grows that fast there is no time to develop established employees with brand knowledge and standards.  Instead you have a bunch of untenured managers and staff with little to no passion for your brand.  Your service and food is mediocre at best, the public at large ends up ambivalent, and forgets you exist.   I can only think of one Bagger Daves location that is still open in W. Michigan when at one point there were almost a dozen.   There are so many examples like Bagger Daves.  Does anyone remember Donato’s Pizza from the 90s, back when McDonald’s though they could flash create brands?

I’ve always been impressed by Meritage’s ambitions and I think they are a great asset to the region (especially since they are downtown).  But I am skeptical that they will ever be able to move away from Wendy’s being their core cash flow mechanism.   The more locations they own, the more clout they will garner.  Who know’s how big it will get, perhaps one day they could buy Wendy’s itself lol.  In the early 2000’s Arby’s largest franchisee absorbed the Arby’s parent brand.  I do hope they continue to pilot these concepts (even though I haven’t been to one in years).  I just don’t see them growing them beyond a local presence unless they temper their ambitions and do it slowly. 

[Pattmost20]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

The skepticism I have with Meritage and these concepts is that it’s very difficult “flash create” a successful chain.  Almost every mainstream, or mid level restaurant chain out there started organically.   The biggest hurdle is that it’s very difficult to effectively manage your brand with out passionate and dedicated employees.  Especially in the current cut throat labor market.   IMO  they would be better off simply purchasing an established name like Anna’s House and building off of that vs. creating their own from scratch.  

Look at Bagger Dave’s vs. Hopcat.   Mark Sellers started off with just the Grand Rapids location, and slowly and deliberately started opening locations in other areas.   In that time he’s closed one, maybe 2 of the locations he started.  Bagger Dave’s was a concept started by a large Buffalo Wild Wings franchise and they grew the brand to over 40 locations within 3 years.   When anything grows that fast there is no time to develop established employees with brand knowledge and standards.  Instead you have a bunch of untenured managers and staff with little to no passion for your brand.  Your service and food is mediocre at best, the public at large ends up ambivalent, and forgets you exist.   I can only think of one Bagger Daves location that is still open in W. Michigan when at one point there were almost a dozen.   There are so many examples like Bagger Daves.  Does anyone remember Donato’s Pizza from the 90s, back when McDonald’s though they could flash create brands?

I’ve always been impressed by Meritage’s ambitions and I think they are a great asset to the region (especially since they are downtown).  But I am skeptical that they will ever be able to move away from Wendy’s being their core cash flow mechanism.   The more locations they own, the more clout they will garner.  Who know’s how big it will get, perhaps one day they could buy Wendy’s itself lol.  In the early 2000’s Arby’s largest franchisee absorbed the Arby’s parent brand.  I do hope they continue to pilot these concepts (even though I haven’t been to one in years).  I just don’t see them growing them beyond a local presence unless they temper their ambitions and do it slowly. 

Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly. Seems hard to believe they will open that many locations when they haven't even opened one successfully. Best of luck to them, I hope they can succeed. 

[ironyisadeadscene]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:22 AM, Pattmost20 said:

Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly. Seems hard to believe they will open that many locations when they haven't even opened one successfully. Best of luck to them, I hope they can succeed. 

Best thing we can do is patronize these locations and encourage others to as well (word of mouth) IF they deserve it

[TheLonesomeHobo]

On 9/14/2019 at 8:40 AM, MJLO said:

The skepticism I have with Meritage and these concepts is that it’s very difficult “flash create” a successful chain.  Almost every mainstream, or mid level restaurant chain out there started organically.   The biggest hurdle is that it’s very difficult to effectively manage your brand with out passionate and dedicated employees.  Especially in the current cut throat labor market.   IMO  they would be better off simply purchasing an established name like Anna’s House and building off of that vs. creating their own from scratch.  

Look at Bagger Dave’s vs. Hopcat.   Mark Sellers started off with just the Grand Rapids location, and slowly and deliberately started opening locations in other areas.   In that time he’s closed one, maybe 2 of the locations he started.  Bagger Dave’s was a concept started by a large Buffalo Wild Wings franchise and they grew the brand to over 40 locations within 3 years.   When anything grows that fast there is no time to develop established employees with brand knowledge and standards.  Instead you have a bunch of untenured managers and staff with little to no passion for your brand.  Your service and food is mediocre at best, the public at large ends up ambivalent, and forgets you exist.   I can only think of one Bagger Daves location that is still open in W. Michigan when at one point there were almost a dozen.   There are so many examples like Bagger Daves.  Does anyone remember Donato’s Pizza from the 90s, back when McDonald’s though they could flash create brands?

I’ve always been impressed by Meritage’s ambitions and I think they are a great asset to the region (especially since they are downtown).  But I am skeptical that they will ever be able to move away from Wendy’s being their core cash flow mechanism.   The more locations they own, the more clout they will garner.  Who know’s how big it will get, perhaps one day they could buy Wendy’s itself lol.  In the early 2000’s Arby’s largest franchisee absorbed the Arby’s parent brand.  I do hope they continue to pilot these concepts (even though I haven’t been to one in years).  I just don’t see them growing them beyond a local presence unless they temper their ambitions and do it slowly. 

Honestly this might be the most spot on take I’ve ever read on this board, thank you!  

[GRDadof3]

On 9/15/2019 at 2:24 PM, ironyisadeadscene said:

Best thing we can do is patronize these locations and encourage others to as well (word of mouth) IF they deserve it

Why would we do that? 

I go out of my way to support locally owned restaurants, but if they're not even close to hitting the mark (great food/menu, great atmosphere, great location, great service) I'm not going to patronize a place just BECAUSE it's locally owned. 

I hear those comments a lot "If only people had patronized them more, they'd still be in business." It's not the obligation of the consumers to keep a business in business. 

[ironyisadeadscene]

5 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Why would we do that? 

I go out of my way to support locally owned restaurants, but if they're not even close to hitting the mark (great food/menu, great atmosphere, great location, great service) I'm not going to patronize a place just BECAUSE it's locally owned. 

I hear those comments a lot "If only people had patronized them more, they'd still be in business." It's not the obligation of the consumers to keep a business in business. 

No,  I think you got that wrong. I said I think they deserve a chance and if good enough, continue to patronize and promote the place. Not just because.