Carolina Panthers Facilities

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

 BTW, if the HQ moves to WS I'll walk down Tryon Street naked (that's both a promise and a threat). 

and I will buy a you dozen Charlotte based Krispy Kreme doughnuts every month for year and you can take that to the Bank! 

4 hours ago, J-Rob said:

I like the innovative thinking, but that seems too far from Charlotte for purposes of an HQ and training facilities.  For practical purposes, I feel like this would be Charlotte losing the Panthers except for gamedays.  I don't feel that way with Rock Hill, because I think of it as part of the Charlotte metro, which I don't for Winston Salem.  For any players living in Uptown or South Charlotte, they would have to likely move or get a second residence. 

 

If Rock Hill doesn't work out, I like the idea of the HQ going on airport land (assuming there is enough, I don't really know), though I don't think the incentives would line up. If it does move, I hope they put it closer to the 485 circle, rather than further away.

 

and yes there is PLENTY of airport owned land that could be sold for pennies on the dollar as the city's contribution mainly north of the airport but some south as well. But the coaches would have to have megaphones and a good sound system. 

I still think it will end up in Rock Hill but I will tell you this I bet the state of NC would help Winston if they wanted it more so then they would help Charlotte and Meck county. 

[eastsider]

2 hours ago, JBS said:

The headquarters isn't leaving Rock Hill. Tepper may be an A-hole and may have money to burn and he may be pissed off by the change in terms. But, he has far too much time and money invested in this location and he would be alienating a significant portion of his fan base if he moves. No other location is better and any other NC location will take money from a new stadium. I'm sure Tepper wishes he had leverage but he literally has none. He's not moving the team to San Diego, Oakland, San Antonio, Sacramento or St Louis (for so many reasons), nor is he moving to London, Toronto or Mexico City. He's literally without a single decent option to move. His only option is to forsake the new facility and stay Uptown at the stadium and adjacent practice fields. The proverbial cutting off his nose to spite his face. Honestly, I'm enjoying this, a billionaire who is not going to get his way. BTW, if the HQ moves to WS I'll walk down Tryon Street naked (that's both a promise and a threat). 

He may not be moving the team but I could definitely see him threatening to move the team to try and get what he wants. Although by the end of the decade I could see San Diego being in the mix to put together a stadium deal, they also happen to be desperate for an MLS franchise.

He said he wanted a casino as part of the headquarters project when it was announced but realized to late that there is zero chance of that happening in SC, this current situation is his way out of that deal.

[JRCLT]

I like the innovative thinking, but that seems too far from Charlotte for purposes of an HQ and training facilities.  For practical purposes, I feel like this would be Charlotte losing the Panthers except for gamedays.  I don't feel that way with Rock Hill, because I think of it as part of the Charlotte metro, which I don't for Winston Salem.  For any players living in Uptown or South Charlotte, they would have to likely move or get a second residence. 
 
If Rock Hill doesn't work out, I like the idea of the HQ going on airport land (assuming there is enough, I don't really know), though I don't think the incentives would line up. If it does move, I hope they put it closer to the 485 circle, rather than further away.
 

Wouldn’t be that too bad if it were put around here

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, eastsider said:

He may not be moving the team but I could definitely see him threatening to move the team to try and get what he wants. Although by the end of the decade I could see San Diego being in the mix to put together a stadium deal, they also happen to be desperate for an MLS franchise.

He said he wanted a casino as part of the headquarters project when it was announced but realized to late that there is zero chance of that happening in SC, this current situation is his way out of that deal.

The Chargers tried to build a stadium for 20 years (they were my team and I lived there for a portion of that time). They couldn't get it done to retain the Chargers and they definitely won't for a new team. The land in Mission Valley is now part of SDSU and the land is committed to a stadium (nearly finished), a river park, educational buildings and other development. It can house an MLS team immediately and they'll get one as soon as an owner steps up to pay the expansion fee. MLS is not allowing Tepper to move a new team that is second in average attendance. The new stadium is allegedly built with NFL expansion in mind but, as an Aztec fan, I think it's unlikely. Plus, owners build their own stadiums in CA and SD is not a big market (LA to the north, Mexico to the south, Pacific Ocean to the west and desert to the east). Plus, Tepper is not a West Coast guy. There are really no other suitable stadium sites in SD (Chargers looked at Chula Vista, Oceanside, port land and land adjacent to Petco...none worked) . 

It's not a surprise to anyone that a casino would not happen in SC. That's why the Catawbas built theirs in NC. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by JBS

[KJHburg]

According to Channel 9  Governor McMaster has talked to Mr Tepper.  

I still believe this will end up right there in Rock Hill as planned. 

[JacksonH]

On 4/12/2022 at 12:05 PM, J-Rob said:

If Rock Hill doesn't work out, I like the idea of the HQ going on airport land (assuming there is enough, I don't really know), though I don't think the incentives would line up. If it does move, I hope they put it closer to the 485 circle, rather than further away.

I have an idea that would keep it not only inside the Charlotte metro, but even inside Charlotte proper.  And yes, also VERY close to the 485 loop AND right by I-77 for a quick trip to the stadium.  Yeah, just tear down Northlake Mall and replace it with the Panthers facility.  Win-win, no? And besides, replacing shopping malls of ill repute with sports facilities is something Charlotte already has experience with.

[JacksonH]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:56 PM, JBS said:

The Chargers tried to build a stadium for 20 years (they were my team and I lived there for a portion of that time). They couldn't get it done to retain the Chargers and they definitely won't for a new team. The land in Mission Valley is now part of SDSU and the land is committed to a stadium (nearly finished), a river park, educational buildings and other development. It can house an MLS team immediately and they'll get one as soon as an owner steps up to pay the expansion fee. MLS is not allowing Tepper to move a new team that is second in average attendance. The new stadium is allegedly built with NFL expansion in mind but, as an Aztec fan, I think it's unlikely. Plus, owners build their own stadiums in CA and SD is not a big market (LA to the north, Mexico to the south, Pacific Ocean to the west and desert to the east). Plus, Tepper is not a West Coast guy. There are really no other suitable stadium sites in SD (Chargers looked at Chula Vista, Oceanside, port land and land adjacent to Petco...none worked) . 

It's not a surprise to anyone that a casino would not happen in SC. That's why the Catawbas built theirs in NC. 

Totally agree with you  on almost all of this.  San Diego wasn't willing to give the Chargers' owner what he wanted, so why would it be any different with Tepper?  And as someone living in San Diego now, I can tell you there is no talk here at all of the Panthers moving to San Diego.  Reading this thread right now is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.

The one thing I'm not sure I agree on is that San Diego is not a big msrket.  The San Diego metro is over 3.3 million people.  And over 5.4 million if you include Tijuana.  And yes there are fans of American football in Mexico.

[deleted account]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:04 AM, JacksonH said:

The one thing I'm not sure I agree on is that San Diego is not a big msrket.  The San Diego metro is over 3.3 million people.  And over 5.4 million if you include Tijuana.  And yes there are fans of American football in Mexico.

Reasonable. This is more of an issue in baseball where the aforementioned geographic limitations have a significant impact on the value of local television and radio deals. Much less of a factor for NFL. Frankly, I'm amazed that SD has exactly ONE major league franchise based on the size and desirability of the market. 

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2018/feb/21/city-lights-good-weather-high-cost-living/

Edited April 15, 2022 by JBS

[deleted account]

Based on this article, it seems like the f-up is more on the Panthers than it is on Rock Hill (and if it's not true, maybe Tepper could, like, you know, actually speak to the press???):

 

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article260410717.html

[KJHburg]

^^^  I recommend everyone read that Herald article and it sounds like the city was getting ready to issue the bonds and Panthers told them to delay.   

[KJHburg]

from Nashville Biz Journal on their new stadium proposal for the Titans aka Oilers.

""A new home for the Tennessee Titans could cost between $1.9 billion to $2.2 billion, according to a Tennessean report, which cites team and state finance department documents.

The Titans estimate that a domed, 1.7 million-square-foot football stadium would take 31 months to build and be ready for the 2026 season, according to the report. The cost of a new development around the stadium could reach $4 billion, paid for by a combination of public and private investments.

The report comes comes after the Titans’ owners pledged $700 million toward the stadium, and Gov. Bill Lee proposed $500 million in state funding for the project.

In total, the state is relying on four revenue sources to pay off Lee’s proposed $500 million in bonds, according to the report:

$85 million in taxes collected from construction of the stadium;
More than $235.6 million is sales tax s collected from NFL games and 28 non-football events per year over 30 years;
$182 million in taxes collected from construction of surrounding developments over 10 to 15 years; and      ((( like this idea for the area around any new stadium))))
Nearly $415 million in sales tax collected from surrounding developments over 30 years.
Tennessee lawmakers are also considering a 1% hotel-motel tax increase to generate an estimated $10 million more annually for the stadium that would place the cost burden on Nashville’s tourists.

The Titans’ current home, Nissan Stadium, was built in 1999, making it one of the older stadiums in the NFL, but not the oldest. The Green Bay Packers, Kansas City Chiefs, New Orleans Saints, Miami Dolphins, Jacksonville Jaguars, Carolina Panthers, Washington Commanders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers all play in stadiums pre-dating Nissan.""

not saying I for or against this but just putting it out there.  Mr Tepper said previously he would pay 1/3.. PSL owners 1/3 and government 1/3. 

[DonkeyKong]

8 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

from Nashville Biz Journal on their new stadium proposal for the Titans aka Oilers.

""A new home for the Tennessee Titans could cost between $1.9 billion to $2.2 billion, according to a Tennessean report, which cites team and state finance department documents.

The Titans estimate that a domed, 1.7 million-square-foot football stadium would take 31 months to build and be ready for the 2026 season, according to the report. The cost of a new development around the stadium could reach $4 billion, paid for by a combination of public and private investments.

The report comes comes after the Titans’ owners pledged $700 million toward the stadium, and Gov. Bill Lee proposed $500 million in state funding for the project.

In total, the state is relying on four revenue sources to pay off Lee’s proposed $500 million in bonds, according to the report:

$85 million in taxes collected from construction of the stadium;
More than $235.6 million is sales tax s collected from NFL games and 28 non-football events per year over 30 years;
$182 million in taxes collected from construction of surrounding developments over 10 to 15 years; and      ((( like this idea for the area around any new stadium))))
Nearly $415 million in sales tax collected from surrounding developments over 30 years.
Tennessee lawmakers are also considering a 1% hotel-motel tax increase to generate an estimated $10 million more annually for the stadium that would place the cost burden on Nashville’s tourists.

The Titans’ current home, Nissan Stadium, was built in 1999, making it one of the older stadiums in the NFL, but not the oldest. The Green Bay Packers, Kansas City Chiefs, New Orleans Saints, Miami Dolphins, Jacksonville Jaguars, Carolina Panthers, Washington Commanders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers all play in stadiums pre-dating Nissan.""

not saying I for or against this but just putting it out there.  Mr Tepper said previously he would pay 1/3.. PSL owners 1/3 and government 1/3. 

I watched Tottenham vs Man City friendly at Nissan stadium a few yrs back and I can confirm it’s a dump.  Bofa is much nicer.  

[deleted account]

25 minutes ago, DonkeyKong said:

I watched Tottenham vs Man City friendly at Nissan stadium a few yrs back and I can confirm it’s a dump.  Bofa is much nicer.  

100℅. I like the river but otherwise felt like a college stadium to me. 

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, DonkeyKong said:

I watched Tottenham vs Man City friendly at Nissan stadium a few yrs back and I can confirm it’s a dump.  Bofa is much nicer.  

hush your mouth that is where I like to park since it is free and walk across the river downtown and parking is out of sight in downtown Nashvegas. 

[InSouthPark]

18 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^  I recommend everyone read that Herald article and it sounds like the city was getting ready to issue the bonds and Panthers told them to delay.   

You really believe what “the city” is saying to the press? They have already changed the story 50 times. They are in PR crisis mode and trying to shift blame. 
 

They either tried to change the deal and *then* issue bonds or are flat out spinning some idea they threw out that was rejected. 
 

[KJHburg]

4 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

You really believe what “the city” is saying to the press? They have already changed the story 50 times. They are in PR crisis mode and trying to shift blame. 
 

They either tried to change the deal and *then* issue bonds or are flat out spinning some idea they threw out that was rejected. 
 

at this point I don't know who or what to believe but we have not heard completely from either side. 

[JHart]

If Rock Hill was upfront about not guaranteeing the debt, this reads to me that Tepper overestimated the tax revenues to be generated by the development, or is trying to adjust the amount of investment into the size of the facility due to the inflated construction costs.  Rock Hill actually was ready to issue bonds in accordance with the original plans but because Tepper would be on the hook for the public infrastructure improvements if they did not generate enough tax revenue for the city to cover the bonds, pushed for a pause on the issuance of bonds and is trying to rework the public funding source so they wouldn't be liable or “try additional things to get the debt issued.” per the report. 

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

You really believe what “the city” is saying to the press? They have already changed the story 50 times. They are in PR crisis mode and trying to shift blame. 
 

They either tried to change the deal and *then* issue bonds or are flat out spinning some idea they threw out that was rejected. 
 

You are basing this on what exactly? The Panthers and Tepper refuse to comment, the city, county and state all commented. I guess it's possible your version of events is correct but I'm wondering why you believe it? 

Since you say the city has changed their story 50 times, can you give us one example? 

Edited April 16, 2022 by JBS

[Blue_Devil]

5 hours ago, JBS said:

You are basing this on what exactly? The Panthers and Tepper refuse to comment, the city, county and state all commented. I guess it's possible your version of events is correct but I'm wondering why you believe it? 

Since you say the city has changed their story 50 times, can you give us one example? 

Well the first example is when the said they were not past due on issuing, than said they were only past due because the Panthers said don’t issue, and then they said we we changed the terms…

[deleted account]

50 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

Well the first example is when the said they were not past due on issuing, than said they were only past due because the Panthers said don’t issue, and then they said we we changed the terms…

We? That sounds more like confusion in reporting. Their explanation sounds plausible to me. If it's untrue, why are the Panthers not talking? We know they aren't taking the high road since they shut the project down and blamed Rock Hill. It's mystifying that they refuse to speak (and that people are defending them). FWIW, I'm a fan and I want them here. 

[QCxpat]

18 minutes ago, JBS said:

We? That sounds more like confusion in reporting. Their explanation sounds plausible to me. If it's untrue, why are the Panthers not talking? We know they aren't taking the high road since they shut the project down and blamed Rock Hill. It's mystifying that they refuse to speak (and that people are defending them). FWIW, I'm a fan and I want them here. 

A portion of yesterday's and this morning's "Charlotte Talks" program on WFAE 90.7 FM discussed the stalemate at the Panthers new HQ and training facility in Rock Hill.   One of the guests, Seema Iyer, chief legal correspondent with WJZY Queen City News, said that she had reviewed the contract which provides for emergency dispute arbitration.  Ms. Iyer suggested that a Judge may have issued a Gag Order while negotiations are underway in the private arbitration process, and this would enjoin the parties from discussing the matter.  If a Gag Order has been issued, that may explain the reason that Tepper & Tepper Sports and Entertainment have remained silent.  Most of the withering commentary, recently reported in the media, has been made by state and local politicians who are not parties to the contract and thus not bound by a Gag Order.

Link:  https://www.wfae.org/show/charlotte-talks-with-mike-collins/2022-04-14/local-news-roundup-mark-meadows-removed-from-nc-voter-rolls-2022-primary-heats-up   (starts @ 5:00 minutes into 49 min. program)

[deleted account]

20 hours ago, QCxpat said:

A portion of yesterday's and this morning's "Charlotte Talks" program on WFAE 90.7 FM discussed the stalemate at the Panthers new HQ and training facility in Rock Hill.   One of the guests, Seema Iyer, chief legal correspondent with WJZY Queen City News, said that she had reviewed the contract which provides for emergency dispute arbitration.  Ms. Iyer suggested that a Judge may have issued a Gag Order while negotiations are underway in the private arbitration process, and this would enjoin the parties from discussing the matter.  If a Gag Order has been issued, that may explain the reason that Tepper & Tepper Sports and Entertainment have remained silent.  Most of the withering commentary, recently reported in the media, has been made by state and local politicians who are not parties to the contract and thus not bound by a Gag Order.

Link:  https://www.wfae.org/show/charlotte-talks-with-mike-collins/2022-04-14/local-news-roundup-mark-meadows-removed-from-nc-voter-rolls-2022-primary-heats-up   (starts @ 5:00 minutes into 49 min. program)

So I listened from 4:30 to 13:30 and the mention of the gag order is pure conjecture on the part of one of the guests (which doesn't contradict your post in any way). It's important to note that no one with knowledge of the proceedings has indicated that a gag order is in place. I'm including a link to the cast on Spotify as I found it much easier to listen to the relevant part of the program. 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3T6aGe0cQQ65oAHqvTmVng?si=ABQGlqh0RFGTyYRmA2pCMQ&utm_source=copy-link

Also remember that Tepper has also refused to address the performance of his team and the future of his hand picked head coach (and that presumably is not the result of a gag order). 

Thanks for sharing, I usually never miss the news round up (I listen Saturday morning) but I did this week. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by JBS

[jednc]

The Panthers have terminated their agreement with Rock Hill. It sounds like the plan is to sit down and renegotiate, not to walk away completely.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article260544127.html#storylink=topdigest_latest

 

edit: Added to commentary...

Edited April 19, 2022 by jednc

[deleted account]

28 minutes ago, jednc said:

The Panthers have terminated their agreement with Rock Hill. It sounds like the plan is to sit down and renegotiate, not to walk away completely.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article260544127.html#storylink=topdigest_latest

 

edit: Added to commentary...

Add it to this...getting increasingly difficult to care about this team. 

[davidclt]

27 minutes ago, JBS said:

Add it to this...getting increasingly difficult to care about this team. 

I'm not sure that's a crime any Texas anymore.