Carolina Panthers Facilities

[go_vertical]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

Add it to this...getting increasingly difficult to care about this team. 

How an individual acts while employed by the Panthers doesn't reflect on the team.  How they respond once all the facts are known does.  If some douchebag banking exec cuts me off and runs me off the road causing an accident I don't say that makes Bank of America the devil. 

[Hushpuppy321]

I still believe this project will be completed in Rockhill, just may cut back on the scale & scope if he can’t renegotiate as favorable terms.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see this back under construction before years end.  Completely screwed up their opening date though.

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, go_vertical said:

How an individual acts while employed by the Panthers doesn't reflect on the team.  How they respond once all the facts are known does.  If some douchebag banking exec cuts me off and runs me off the road causing an accident I don't say that makes Bank of America the devil. 

I don't usually sit on the couch yelling for bankers to make quarterly quota (or whatever they do). This player has a track record of violence and Panthers signed him (and tried to trade for a guy credibly accused of serial sexual misconduct). That impacts how I feel about the team. I don't GAF if you feel differently. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by deleted account

[InSouthPark]

15 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I still believe this project will be completed in Rockhill, just may cut back on the scale & scope if he can’t renegotiate as favorable terms.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see this back under construction before years end.  Completely screwed up their opening date though.

Rock Hill is going to get backed into a corner.  Issue the bonds as directed, agree to a new deal, or get sued for breach of contract for $$$ and still have Tepper walk. 

So do they risk getting sued for $150+ million and get absolutely nothing in return?  He would take his money and build it somewhere else and Tepper just land bank the property  just to F them over so they get zero tax revenue from it in his lifetime.  I guess insurance would pay the lawsuit perhaps but this is going to really hinder them doing any big deals in the future. 

 

11 minutes ago, JBS said:

I don't usually sit on the coach yelling for bankers to make quarterly quota (or whatever they do). This player has a track record of violence and Panthers signed him (and tried to trade for a guy credibly accused of serial sexual misconduct). That impacts how I feel about the team. I don't GAF if you feel differently. 

Getting all your shots in before you delete your account in 11 days...nice!

[go_vertical]

13 minutes ago, JBS said:

I don't usually sit on the coach yelling for bankers to make quarterly quota (or whatever they do). This player has a track record of violence and Panthers signed him (and tried to trade for a guy credibly accused of serial sexual misconduct). That impacts how I feel about the team. I don't GAF if you feel differently. 

Ummm..... OK.  Why the hostility, man.  Just trying to have a conversation and offer different viewpoints. 

[deleted account]

35 minutes ago, go_vertical said:

Ummm..... OK.  Why the hostility, man.  Just trying to have a conversation and offer different viewpoints. 

That did come off more hostile than I intended, my apologies. I meant to say that I didn't agree with your analogy, your characterization of my comments and that I don't care if you feel differently. 

41 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Rock Hill is going to get backed into a corner.  Issue the bonds as directed, agree to a new deal, or get sued for breach of contract for $$$ and still have Tepper walk. 

So do they risk getting sued for $150+ million and get absolutely nothing in return?  He would take his money and build it somewhere else and Tepper just land bank the property  just to F them over so they get zero tax revenue from it in his lifetime.  I guess insurance would pay the lawsuit perhaps but this is going to really hinder them doing any big deals in the future. 

 

Getting all your shots in before you delete your account in 11 days...nice!

Hey man, I don't get paid for this. I'll do you a favor and stop posting immediately. Just be clear, the headquarters will be built in Rock Hill and Tepper has no leverage (hopefully RH realizes this). 

[go_vertical]

I just don't enjoy coming onto these forums like I used too.  The crapty way people treat each other is seeping into everything these days.  So depressing. 

[HopHead]

Looks like York County is now ready to talk about restarting the project and leaving Rock Hill out of the negotiations... At this point, it's probably a good thing: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/04/19/carolina-panthers-hq-rock-hill-agreement-end-new.html?cx_testId=6&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

[carolina1792]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:55 PM, KJHburg said:

from Nashville Biz Journal on their new stadium proposal for the Titans aka Oilers.

""A new home for the Tennessee Titans could cost between $1.9 billion to $2.2 billion, according to a Tennessean report, which cites team and state finance department documents.

The Titans estimate that a domed, 1.7 million-square-foot football stadium would take 31 months to build and be ready for the 2026 season, according to the report. The cost of a new development around the stadium could reach $4 billion, paid for by a combination of public and private investments.

The report comes comes after the Titans’ owners pledged $700 million toward the stadium, and Gov. Bill Lee proposed $500 million in state funding for the project.

In total, the state is relying on four revenue sources to pay off Lee’s proposed $500 million in bonds, according to the report:

$85 million in taxes collected from construction of the stadium;
More than $235.6 million is sales tax s collected from NFL games and 28 non-football events per year over 30 years;
$182 million in taxes collected from construction of surrounding developments over 10 to 15 years; and      ((( like this idea for the area around any new stadium))))
Nearly $415 million in sales tax collected from surrounding developments over 30 years.
Tennessee lawmakers are also considering a 1% hotel-motel tax increase to generate an estimated $10 million more annually for the stadium that would place the cost burden on Nashville’s tourists.

The Titans’ current home, Nissan Stadium, was built in 1999, making it one of the older stadiums in the NFL, but not the oldest. The Green Bay Packers, Kansas City Chiefs, New Orleans Saints, Miami Dolphins, Jacksonville Jaguars, Carolina Panthers, Washington Commanders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers all play in stadiums pre-dating Nissan.""

not saying I for or against this but just putting it out there.  Mr Tepper said previously he would pay 1/3.. PSL owners 1/3 and government 1/3. 

Geez, $500 million from the TN state government. That's a hard no from NCGA for sure. First, if Panther gets any future funds from the state government then both the Hornets and Hurricanes will cry foul. Carolina Hurricanes new or renovated arena now looking to be between $600 million to $1.2 billion (minor structural renovation vs new arena vs new downtown arena). Construction costs across the board have almost doubled since 2019.  

[InSouthPark]

23 minutes ago, HopHead said:

Looks like York County is now ready to talk about restarting the project and leaving Rock Hill out of the negotiations... At this point, it's probably a good thing: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/04/19/carolina-panthers-hq-rock-hill-agreement-end-new.html?cx_testId=6&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

From the article:  "The City does not believe in addressing, through a public back-and-forth, its differences with another party," the city's statement today read. "We are encouraged the Panthers may now be willing to meet and look forward to resolving any and all outstanding issues so that we can together fulfill the promises implicit in the 'two states, one team' ethos. From our standpoint, we are prepared to meet as early as today. Accordingly, this will be the last public statement from the City regarding the most recent misleading and erroneous statements from the Panthers."

LOL - Rock Hill pouring  a little gas on the bridge while its burning.  Their PR team is terrible...you don't put that last sentence in there for a press release. 

Even York County council members are saying Rock Hill "is basically lying".  

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by InSouthPark

[JRCLT]

I just don't enjoy coming onto these forums like I used too.  The crapty way people treat each other is seeping into everything these days.  So depressing. 

I agree. Not so great when people take things personally. Especially when they say they’re giving a different point of view then get angry that someone rebuttals their statements. I mean… why would you expect everyone to just not have a viewpoint on your comment??? Lol. Why state it if you know no one will disagree. It would simply be an echo chamber and that doesn’t help anyone. I don’t mind when others disagree with me? I like to see other view points. Gives me more perspective. I’m one person with a unique experience and limited knowledge. There are another nearly 8 billion other persons with unique experiences and levels of knowledge. You are bound to disagree on any level or topic. Simply a part of life. Would be more fun if we wouldn’t get so upset about disagreements and embrace them, listen to them, and try to understand why it is said.

Also yes sometimes I AM WRONG. Just as well sometimes YOU are wrong. Other times there really isn’t a right or wrong and all is subjective.

(Might just be the “aging raging syndrome” as people age they get angrier and easily triggered. They go grrrrr!!)

[rucker]

This has turned into a total clown show. However this ends, when mixed into the entire stew that is the Panthers in 2022, Tepper is looking more Dan Synderish every day that goes by under his ownership.

[InSouthPark]

4 minutes ago, rucker said:

This has turned into a total clown show. However this ends, when mixed into the entire stew that is the Panthers in 2022, Tepper is looking more Dan Synderish every day that goes by under his ownership.

That's lower than low.  Snyder, a  suspended NFL owner, oversaw a team of sexual harassers for decades, accused of sexual harassment himself, under investigation by Congress for sexual harassment, and is now accused of defrauding the NFL.

Tepper hired the wrong coach and is enforcing a building contract.  

You can compare him to other "non-winning" owners like Khan or something...but please don't compare a business man to a serial sexual predator.  Hard Stop.

[CTiger]

Yeah, Tepper has 30+ years of legitimate criminal behavior and throwing middle fingers to fans to get into the same arena as Snyder.  Please don't compare the two.  Snyder is the worst owner in all of sports because he is not only inept, but also a despicable human being and criminal.

As for the situation at hand, does anyone know if any other counties have made any serious inquiries into potentially grabbing this from our SC neighbors?  I too believe that at the end of the day this will end up in Rock Hill, but stalled construction projects only get more expensive, not less expensive and the longer this draws out the uglier it will get.

[RugbyPike#11]

25 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Even York County council members are saying Rock Hill "is basically lying".  

I asked an involved party, "Is the City of Rock Hill incompetent or is David Tepper an a**hole?" The response I received was, "Yes."

[Blue_Devil]

21 minutes ago, rucker said:

This has turned into a total clown show. However this ends, when mixed into the entire stew that is the Panthers in 2022, Tepper is looking more Dan Synderish every day that goes by under his ownership.

That is an…. opinion

[go_vertical]

37 minutes ago, JeanClt said:

I agree. Not so great when people take things personally. Especially when they say they’re giving a different point of view then get angry that someone rebuttals their statements. I mean… why would you expect everyone to just not have a viewpoint on your comment??? Lol. Why state it if you know no one will disagree. It would simply be an echo chamber and that doesn’t help anyone. I don’t mind when others disagree with me? I like to see other view points. Gives me more perspective. I’m one person with a unique experience and limited knowledge. There are another nearly 8 billion other persons with unique experiences and levels of knowledge. You are bound to disagree on any level or topic. Simply a part of life. Would be more fun if we wouldn’t get so upset about disagreements and embrace them, listen to them, and try to understand why it is said.

Also yes sometimes I AM WRONG. Just as well sometimes YOU are wrong. Other times there really isn’t a right or wrong and all is subjective.

(Might just be the “aging raging syndrome” as people age they get angrier and easily triggered. They go grrrrr!!)

I agree, but sadly more and more people want an echo chamber.  It's not so much about having a discussion or a healthy debate anymore, but more about telling everyone how you're right because you get your info from the only correct source while also requiring validation the entire time.  That's why I avoid all the social media's like the plague.  Far too many people think that followers, retweets, upvotes, and likes are what it's all about.  And while I do agree with your "aging raging syndrome" comment we can't ignore the fact that we now have an entire generation that values their entire existence on how much of this synthetic validation they can stack up. 

And I know this has taken the thread off topic and for that I apologize.  I'm just so worn down from seeing society's decency and decorum circle the drain and Urban Planet was one of those few places (for me at least) where it was mostly always positive and there was pleasant conversation to be had.  Not saying that isn't there anymore, it's just that it seems like almost weekly there is some sad sap that revels in lobbing grenades over a wall just because they're bored and wants to see what happens.

OK, end of rant, back to the topic at hand. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by go_vertical
They're instead of their

[turbocraig]

56 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

From the article:  "The City does not believe in addressing, through a public back-and-forth, its differences with another party," the city's statement today read. "We are encouraged the Panthers may now be willing to meet and look forward to resolving any and all outstanding issues so that we can together fulfill the promises implicit in the 'two states, one team' ethos. From our standpoint, we are prepared to meet as early as today. Accordingly, this will be the last public statement from the City regarding the most recent misleading and erroneous statements from the Panthers."

LOL - Rock Hill pouring  a little gas on the bridge while its burning.  Their PR team is terrible...you don't put that last sentence in there for a press release. 

Even York County council members are saying Rock Hill "is basically lying".  

 

Totally agree.  The Panthers have at least been consistent in their refusal to comment until today's statement.  It's been a whirlwind of excuses from Rock Hill or others speaking on their behalf for the past 5 weeks.  I'm paraphrasing here, but first it was "We met our obligations" then it was "We never issued the bonds" then it was "Circumstances changed since we signed that contract so we're not going to honor our end now" then it was "They never got us the details we needed to issue the bonds" then it was "We were THIS close to issuing bonds" (not sure how those last two can coexist) then it was "How about the Panthers pay for it all and we can reimburse you over four decades instead" .  This seems like mom walking into the living room and seeing a broken lamp and a group of kids stammering and stuttering and pointing fingers.  Like amateur hour.

Also, does it seem strange to anyone else that this entire development plan was complete enough to satisfy both state and local lawmakers to the tune of pitching in hundreds of millions of tax dollars, get through permitting and get halfway through construction but they didn't have enough detail for investors to underwrite... roads and water pipes?  That seems super odd to me.  But, I'm not in an SC planning department nor was I present during any contract negotiations nor involved in due diligence anywhere.  Just a layman's view.  I know lots of people don't like David Tepper for a variety of reasons, but this hasn't been a good look for Rock Hill/SC since everyone and their brother started shooting their mouths off in the press, almost immediately.   It just seemed really unprofessional.  I'm surprised to see the amount of blame folks in the press and online are putting on Tepper for this.  I know lots of folks have different opinions and I'm not tryna be in a fight here, it's just my take on it.  At least till more details come out.

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

From the article:  "The City does not believe in addressing, through a public back-and-forth, its differences with another party," the city's statement today read. "We are encouraged the Panthers may now be willing to meet and look forward to resolving any and all outstanding issues so that we can together fulfill the promises implicit in the 'two states, one team' ethos. From our standpoint, we are prepared to meet as early as today. Accordingly, this will be the last public statement from the City regarding the most recent misleading and erroneous statements from the Panthers."

LOL - Rock Hill pouring  a little gas on the bridge while its burning.  Their PR team is terrible...you don't put that last sentence in there for a press release. 

Even York County council members are saying Rock Hill "is basically lying".  

 

Now I see where Lindsay graham gets it from…the great flouncers of South Carolina, always stewing in faux-indignation 

Edited April 19, 2022 by RANYC

[JRCLT]

I agree, but sadly more and more people want an echo chamber.  It's not so much about having a discussion or a healthy debate anymore, but more about telling everyone how you're right because you get your info from the only correct source while also requiring validation the entire time.  That's why I avoid all the social media's like the plague.  Far too many people think that followers, retweets, upvotes, and likes are what it's all about.  And while I do agree with your "aging raging syndrome" comment we can't ignore the fact that we now have an entire generation that values their entire existence on how much of this synthetic validation they can stack up. 
And I know this has taken the thread off topic and for that I apologize.  I'm just so worn down from seeing society's decency and decorum circle the drain and Urban Planet was one of those few places (for me at least) where it was mostly always positive and there was pleasant conversation to be had.  Not saying that isn't there anymore, it's just that it seems like almost weekly there is some sad sap that revels in lobbing grenades over a wall just because they're bored and wants to see what happens.
OK, end of rant, back to the topic at hand. 

Don’t know why the sentence isn’t showing up but that last remark was joke LOL. Not meant to be taken seriously. Must be thread coding issues. I also made that term up.

[TheOneRJ]

Two states, one team. Until it’s time to pay bills.

[Mid South NC]

When negotiating from a clear disadvantage 101,

 

1. establish a rapport. 

“To me, this is like a petulant child who can’t get out of his own way and we need adults to walk into the room and make good decisions. When you can’t trust your partners, it becomes difficult to negotiate. I think the county has done everything the right way, and it is a shame that David Tepper has decided to walk away and to paint the NFL in such a negative light."

 

"When you can't trust your partners ... ", now that is the pot calling the kettle black if you've ever heard it. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mid South NC

[JacksonH]

7 hours ago, go_vertical said:

How an individual acts while employed by the Panthers doesn't reflect on the team.  How they respond once all the facts are known does.  If some douchebag banking exec cuts me off and runs me off the road causing an accident I don't say that makes Bank of America the devil. 

Maybe it's the NFL in general that makes millions off of a hazardous sport while not doing enough to ensure its players remain mentally fit and don't suffer brain damage?

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/12/14/former-nfl-player-who-killed-6-rock-hill-suffered-stage-2-cte-officials-say/

Edited April 20, 2022 by JacksonH

[Urban Cowboy]

If I was as rich and salty as David Tepper, I would 100% abandon the entire SC project. I'd throw a ridiculous amount of money at the bickering Brookhill parties, and then build the new facilities there. Throw in some truly affordable housing + a community center at the new site - and watch for the hero's welcome. I would love for Tepper to then rename the team Charlotte Panthers, and then yank those 2 SC flags off the top of our stadium. I'm so tired of the two states one team thing... And SC flags flying over NC. And yes I am petty - and I hope Tepper is too! 

I choose to live in Charlotte, invest in Charlotte, and be a part of the community in Charlotte. I want Charlotte and its citizens to be successful. York County and frankly any of the communities/residents over the line are siphoning away tax revenue while continuing to use our city's infrastructure and benefit from our economy. I don't think we should be actively rewarding SC at all for taking away jobs or residents. I'm glad this is blowing up in SC's face. I don't understand how Tepper looks bad in any of this - despite reading a lot of mixed opinions about his handling. Alienate all of South Carolina! In fact, I like the guy more for playing hardball. SI SE PUEDE NORTH CAROLINA!!!

[JRCLT]

If I was as rich and salty as David Tepper, I would 100% abandon the entire SC project. I'd throw a ridiculous amount of money at the bickering Brookhill parties, and then build the new facilities there. Throw in some truly affordable housing + a community center at the new site - and watch for the hero's welcome. I would love for Tepper to then rename the team Charlotte Panthers, and then yank those 2 SC flags off the top of our stadium. I'm so tired of the two states one team thing... And SC flags flying over NC. And yes I am petty - and I hope Tepper is too! 
I choose to live in Charlotte, invest in Charlotte, and be a part of the community in Charlotte. I want Charlotte and its citizens to be successful. York County and frankly any of the communities/residents over the line are siphoning away tax revenue while continuing to use our city's infrastructure and benefit from our economy. I don't think we should be actively rewarding SC at all for taking away jobs or residents. I'm glad this is blowing up in SC's face. I don't understand how Tepper looks bad in any of this - despite reading a lot of mixed opinions about his handling. Alienate all of South Carolina! In fact, I like the guy more for playing hardball. SI SE PUEDE NORTH CAROLINA!!!

Your competitive sides is showing a bit… lol. I agree to an extent. Just as well though NC people are working and SC and taking that tax away from SC. (Numbers for this are unknown and therefore I can’t say if it is evening out, but since we’re all in the same country it isn’t that big of an issue). I love the enthusiasm for Charlotte though! I also want the Queen City and all her citizens to prosper!