Norfolk Off-Topic

[vdogg]

That is, hands down, the most informative article on city governance I've ever read from any of the local publications.  There's a lot of stuff in there that I did not know. Oh, and by the way, I will never call Saint Paul's "Church View". Not even if you hold a gun to my head.

[brikkman]

He says that SPQ: "If you look at how much money the city generates in taxes on that acreage it’s only about $300,000."

He has said his goal is to replace that with real estate revenue. He has no plans IMO to extend DT... According to him that is 200 acres of land. SMDH...

 

[BFG]

At this point, I just want to see them do something other than twiddling their thumbs. There has to be an option that allows people in Tidewater Park to find a new place to stay, and then allows the city to move forward.

I'd really hate to see a suburban development in that area, because it just doesn't fit how a downtown should look. They can still go vertical and build a few high rises, and still put a couple of office towers and shops there. It would be shortsighted and a waste of prime real estate to make this another Broad Creek.

[baobabs727]

Don't like the Scope plan. Not convinced they know what the heck they're doing with the waterfront. Nothing about MacArthur Center or DT retail. Nothing about residential high-rise development.  Nothing about a new office tower.

On another note, I have it on authority that not all members of Council are enamored of Cordish. Which makes me believe that their residential piece is dead.  Sad.  And so in the absence of any other known outside major player, this  conveniently leaves the entire damned city to Buddy. Nothing against Buddy, although n full disclosure I was an early buyer in his failed GT project, but I believe in diversity of investment in our city.  I believe in outside blood. New ideas. Deep pockets. Anything but one person dominating the market because we all know what a monopoly ends up creating. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

I was never a fan of Cordish myself but what is their main reason for being against the residential component?

 

[baobabs727]

Trust issues. Negotiation practices.  That's about all I can say. I'm hoping it will pass.  But you notice nothing like that came up  as far as residential towers from anyone. And as far as I know from my sources, there is no one else of that stature--or anyone else for that matter--poking around willing to invest  $125M-$250M in brand new, ground up, high rise residential. Talking somewhere between 300 and 600 units renting at record shattering rates.

So for the foreseeable future, I think we're stuck with remodels and renos.  Which represent a significantly lower level of total dollar investment, quality, prestige... and much lost potential in attracting other national developers to town.

Finally, I know maybe we've touched on this earlier, but it should give us pause that we have lost a major office building to residential. What we need is more office AND more residential. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by baobabs727

[brikkman]

Again, SPQ says it ALL to me...

All of this is par for the course.

[BFG]

Like I said at the top of this page, downtown Charlotte has seven buildings on the docket. From what I understand, their downtown is not much larger than ours.

Nashville is getting ready to get an MLS team. I'm tired of Norfolk and Virginia Beach doing this same-ol, same-ol status quo stuff. A grand hotel should not be your downtown's "game changer". I'm sick of us getting big, shiny things once every 5 or 10 years, when other cities do this easily in one year.

[urbanlife]

6 hours ago, BFG said:

Like I said at the top of this page, downtown Charlotte has seven buildings on the docket. From what I understand, their downtown is not much larger than ours.

Nashville is getting ready to get an MLS team. I'm tired of Norfolk and Virginia Beach doing this same-ol, same-ol status quo stuff. A grand hotel should not be your downtown's "game changer". I'm sick of us getting big, shiny things once every 5 or 10 years, when other cities do this easily in one year.

I definitely feel ya, it is kind of painful to keep following what is going on in Hampton Roads for so many years. Here in Portland, we have so many projects going on that I can't keep up with all of them. Every time I am in a part of the city I don't usually get to I am often times wondering when a building got built.  Heck, Seattle is exploding with new developments, last time I was up there an area that use to be surface parking lots that I use to park in had all been developed into towers. When I look at cities in the southeast, even smaller cities like Raleigh, it seems like they have so much new going on for them. It just blows my mind that a region as big as Hampton Roads can act so stagnant to new development beyond suburban developments. In the past 15+ years since I moved away, it feels like not much has changed in Hampton Roads beyond a few new buildings and a few new wider streets and sort of a light rail line.

[oduengineer]

2 hours ago, urbanlife said:

I definitely feel ya, it is kind of painful to keep following what is going on in Hampton Roads for so many years. Here in Portland, we have so many projects going on that I can't keep up with all of them. Every time I am in a part of the city I don't usually get to I am often times wondering when a building got built.  Heck, Seattle is exploding with new developments, last time I was up there an area that use to be surface parking lots that I use to park in had all been developed into towers. When I look at cities in the southeast, even smaller cities like Raleigh, it seems like they have so much new going on for them. It just blows my mind that a region as big as Hampton Roads can act so stagnant to new development beyond suburban developments. In the past 15+ years since I moved away, it feels like not much has changed in Hampton Roads beyond a few new buildings and a few new wider streets and sort of a light rail line.

Downtown Norfolk has been slow in the past 15 years but the entire Town Center in VB has developed in that time period.

I was working in Portland for 6 weeks this summer, and a friend was there for 5 months.  To each his own, but we both came back feeling that Portland is full of homeless addicts living on dirty, urine-stained streets.  The business climate and quality of life is VERY different than that of HR.   

[carolinaboy]

Come on guys. Enough with the doom and gloom. Downtown Norfolk has exploded with great development over the last few years. Anyone who doesn't think so isn't paying attention. No 500 foot tall shiny towers? So what. We have had many refurbished buildings and some new ones too. Light rail, library, train station, transit center, Hilton, new apartment buildings, Granby Street renaissance...

Soon to have River tower (TOWER!), CHKD building, EVMS building, Buddy's apartments near the art museum......Things are happening just maybe not Amazon HQ2 level stuff.

 

[brikkman]

15 hours ago, vdogg said:

I was never a fan of Cordish myself but what is their main reason for being against the residential component?

 

Cordish from my view here in  Bmore has done wonders with entertainment in Norfolk. What TEEs me off about it is what they did/do/done wasn't special AT ALL. Cordish is a very good example of lack of foresight and quality titles/people to run such things. The fact that the NHRA was running waterside was a massive FAIL.  The tower move at WSD, I wasn't too thrilled about that to begin with and I'm actually surprised they did not let them do it.

 

36 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Come on guys. Enough with the doom and gloom. Downtown Norfolk has exploded with great development over the last few years. Anyone who doesn't think so isn't paying attention. No 500 foot tall shiny towers? So what. We have had many refurbished buildings and some new ones too. Light rail, library, train station, transit center, Hilton, new apartment buildings, Granby Street renaissance...

Soon to have River tower (TOWER!), CHKD building, EVMS building, Buddy's apartments near the art museum......Things are happening just maybe not Amazon HQ2 level stuff.

 

When you look at it from that perspective, it is great, however, we all follow these things and we know much of this moved at a snails pace. I think to say "at least we have this now" would be a bad attitude towards the score card Norfolk has put out in the last 15 years.  If all things had panned out, I think we would be in a better position.  I thought LRT was the start of a new flow and energy, but honestly, the lack of moving more towards an urban core aligns with what the doom and gloom people put on the pilot about LRT in the comment section.  I am/was 100% for LRT but IMO it comes with everything moving towards that kind of lifestyle. I don't mean they should focus on building LRT everywhere as a first priority, but it is important that the projects they seek should definitely move in that direction to support said lifestyle. I've said this and many other people said this and SQP proves this, the council and new mayor truly has no idea where/how they need to do to grow Norfolk.  In that interview he called Norfolk a small big city, that's fair, but we are loosing in potential and definitely not positioning ourselves to be better. I get mad at that the most, the "positioning" part.

Fort Norfolk should have been top priority, SQP should have been top priority.  He managed to take 200 acres and pretty much said he is going to redo it.  As BFG said, a suburban development there is a fail (sorry I re-interpret, lol). Norfolk urban core should stretch from NSU to E-river, to Ghent/hell 21st to Huntersville. Norfolk can not compete with the other 6 cities with regards to sub urban developments, they just do not have the real estate. I don't need a tower, but I do need density and positioning to give people and business an opportunity to consider Norfolk for good  projects.

[BFG]

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, and we shouldn't compare our progress to that of other cities. At the same time, I think this area drags its feet on a lot of things, and it just gets frustrating.

I guess all we can do is be patient. I think we're on the right path, but also think we need to get to work. 

[urbanlife]

8 hours ago, oduengineer said:

Downtown Norfolk has been slow in the past 15 years but the entire Town Center in VB has developed in that time period.

I was working in Portland for 6 weeks this summer, and a friend was there for 5 months.  To each his own, but we both came back feeling that Portland is full of homeless addicts living on dirty, urine-stained streets.  The business climate and quality of life is VERY different than that of HR.   

The homeless issue is something that has become a larger problem all over in this country, Norfolk would also have an issue with that if it didn't have so much public housing projects to hide the underlying problem. In regards to the homeless, Portland had an awful mayor for 4 years that didn't put any effort into the issue and now we are playing make up as we try to fix his mistakes. Though, this is the northwest, we will always have some grit to us, even a cosmopolitan city like Seattle has some northwest grit. I hope that in that time you got out of downtown and really got to see the city and what it had to offer. I am not saying Portland is for everyone, just pointing out that if Norfolk isn't seeing growth during a growing economy, then there is something wrong.

As for the Town Center, building a downtown from scratch, it has definitely come a long way in a short period of time, I had some personal issues with the urban planning and overall design for the area, but that is a different topic. I just feel like for the size of Hampton Roads, it should be much further along than what it currently is at, and I can see why anyone would have frustrations with that living there. I know I dealt with those frustrations growing up in Virginia Beach and seeing so many missed opportunities happen. I truly hope that changes for Norfolk and VB, but I also wouldn't hold my breath.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to down talk the region or try to say which city is better, I am just speaking in the sense of the overall economy and how metros have grown in the US.

[mistermetaj]

8 hours ago, urbanlife said:

The homeless issue is something that has become a larger problem all over in this country, Norfolk would also have an issue with that if it didn't have so much public housing projects to hide the underlying problem. In regards to the homeless, Portland had an awful mayor for 4 years that didn't put any effort into the issue and now we are playing make up as we try to fix his mistakes. Though, this is the northwest, we will always have some grit to us, even a cosmopolitan city like Seattle has some northwest grit. I hope that in that time you got out of downtown and really got to see the city and what it had to offer. I am not saying Portland is for everyone, just pointing out that if Norfolk isn't seeing growth during a growing economy, then there is something wrong.

As for the Town Center, building a downtown from scratch, it has definitely come a long way in a short period of time, I had some personal issues with the urban planning and overall design for the area, but that is a different topic. I just feel like for the size of Hampton Roads, it should be much further along than what it currently is at, and I can see why anyone would have frustrations with that living there. I know I dealt with those frustrations growing up in Virginia Beach and seeing so many missed opportunities happen. I truly hope that changes for Norfolk and VB, but I also wouldn't hold my breath.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to down talk the region or try to say which city is better, I am just speaking in the sense of the overall economy and how metros have grown in the US.

Norfolk's issue is that it's the historic "urban" center of the area, but not the business center. The relationship between Virginia Beach and Norfolk is the single biggest detriment to the urban fabric of the area. 

In comparison to small cities like Raleigh, they are strategically located close to better colleges and research institutions, thus the ability to attract businesses that attract an abundance of young talent. The growth of the biomedical industry has greatly enhanced cities around Charlotte, buttressing the growth of their financial institutions. Virginia Beach is just starting to enter this space. Norfolk has not. As schools like ODU and CNU improve, more businesses should show up in the area.

When it comes to homelessness, the west coast is especially unique. Living in NY, there is certainly plenty of homelessness (and give the population probably more than any individual city in the US). However, using San Francisco as the most analogous city, it's problems are much worse in both the concentration and aggression of the homeless. I've never experienced anything like it. Not surprised it would extend further north. 

[urbanlife]

1 hour ago, mistermetaj said:

Norfolk's issue is that it's the historic "urban" center of the area, but not the business center. The relationship between Virginia Beach and Norfolk is the single biggest detriment to the urban fabric of the area. 

In comparison to small cities like Raleigh, they are strategically located close to better colleges and research institutions, thus the ability to attract businesses that attract an abundance of young talent. The growth of the biomedical industry has greatly enhanced cities around Charlotte, buttressing the growth of their financial institutions. Virginia Beach is just starting to enter this space. Norfolk has not. As schools like ODU and CNU improve, more businesses should show up in the area.

When it comes to homelessness, the west coast is especially unique. Living in NY, there is certainly plenty of homelessness (and give the population probably more than any individual city in the US). However, using San Francisco as the most analogous city, it's problems are much worse in both the concentration and aggression of the homeless. I've never experienced anything like it. Not surprised it would extend further north. 

That is true that the relationship between VB and Norfolk is probably one of the main factors that holds the area back, I personally wonder if the region would be as big as it is if the military wasn't there because much of the major resources such as business and education seems to be located elsewhere in the state. I almost think that it would have been better for Virginia Tech to be located in Norfolk than the middle of nowhere Blacksburg. 

You mention New York when referencing homelessness, I assume you are referring to NYC. I will say one thing really unique with NYC when it comes to homelessness is the ability to hide there. There are so many tunnels under the city that there is literally a homeless city under Manhattan. SF has a unique history with dealing with homelessness within the center of their city by concentrating them all within the Tenderloin. 

I do wish Norfolk would see investment in infill projects throughout the city by small time developers, similar to what we saw in Portland during our last couple booms where small 3-5 story apartment buildings started popping up basically creating new urban neighborhoods within existing larger neighborhoods. We have had a number of new micro neighborhoods spring up over the years that have all come from the population growth we have been experiencing. I am not sure what Norfolk could do to make itself more attractive, but it would seem like it would make sense to expand the urban grid outward from downtown with plans for incoming developers to build into an urban fabric rather than relying on suburban developments and ideas to be the fill in developments.

[skylinefan]

Video about all of the wonderful attractions Norfolk has to offer.  Downtown Norfolk is attracting a lot of attention not just in the US but in the World.  

 

[BFG]

Soon we're going to move up from sleepy little city that's nice to visit, to a city people take more seriously. Stuff like this is very encouraging, given what we said at the top of the page. 

People are noticing. 

[Virginia City]

One day.

[skylinefan]

I think we lose perspective when you compare Norfolk to other cities.  Norfolk has come a long way from the 1980s when I last lived down there.  The vibrancy  of the city is amazing. And I credit the leaders, NRHA and the citizens for doggedly pursuing making Norfolk into a World Class city.  The country and the world is taking note.  

[BFG]

The city wants to revisit its plans to redevelop Wards Corner. There will be a public meeting next month. I hope the city acts on this and SPQ soon...this could be really nice.

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/article_49e2f98e-6f10-5674-a352-0ef79646bcf9.html

https://www.norfolk.gov/wardscornerstudy

[zeppelin14]

19 hours ago, BFG said:

The city wants to revisit its plans to redevelop Wards Corner.

I live close to Wards Corner so hopefully this will take off. The Harris Teeter shopping center is working well, but across the street is still the same old bland shopping center with multiple vacancies. A lot of the problem is the parking lot. If the parking surface is old and unattractive with poor flow, it really does affect the shops. I don't like pulling into this parking lot because of this.

Across Granby is the other shopping center with the strip club. Overall, it is not a great shopping center. As it is, it does not attract a good crowd. The run down Rite Aid doesn't help either.

[BFG]

I know they've wanted to bring back the "Times Square of the South" nickname, and I read an interview where the mayor wants to get a hotel over there, because a lot of guests either stay downtown or near the airport. It would look odd, but a hotel somewhere over there makes sense.

[BFG]

You can now "balance" the city's budget with this interactive site.

http://norfolkva.abalancingact.com

[vdogg]

It appears that we will not see a slow down in the apartment building boom for quite a long time.

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/article_afd17566-41bd-5050-9596-2aabfa014639.html