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Norfolk Off-Topic

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I know that Chesapeake and Virginia Beach's mayors are open to the idea of helping Norfolk.

https://www.pilotonline.com/inside-business/vp-ib-raleigh-folo-1007-20191003-q3ca47hyevaj5jdsrf6umm5pf4-story.html

But that's the most I've seen about potential locations. Military Circle is roughly the same distance from downtown. I thought the current Walmart near Town Center would've made for a much better location in VB. Wherever the location, I think being close to the 64-264 or 264-464 interchange are critical.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 3:32 PM, BFG said:

I know that Chesapeake and Virginia Beach's mayors are open to the idea of helping Norfolk.

https://www.pilotonline.com/inside-business/vp-ib-raleigh-folo-1007-20191003-q3ca47hyevaj5jdsrf6umm5pf4-story.html

But that's the most I've seen about potential locations. Military Circle is roughly the same distance from downtown. I thought the current Walmart near Town Center would've made for a much better location in VB. Wherever the location, I think being close to the 64-264 or 264-464 interchange are critical.

I feel like the Triangle and HR share a lot of commonalities. Although the distance to get from once city to the other is a little greater in the triangle, you still have the one city that feels like it's better than all the others (Cary/Virginia Beach), the two cities who want to be the top dog (Raleigh/Durham, NFK/VB), the one city that the others look down on (Portsmouth/Durham) and instead of building up they continue to spread further and furher out for overproced Ryan homes planned subdivisions. The bigggest difference I've noticed is that the Triangle is growing by leaps and bounds and HR is continuing to go in circles.

Edited by michael ary
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Someone on the Reddit Norfolk page mentioned that crews are laying concrete on that space. Are they beginning site work?

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24 minutes ago, BFG said:

Someone on the Reddit Norfolk page mentioned that crews are laying concrete on that space. Are they beginning site work?

I would expect more site work prior to concrete being poured. Based on the description & that there hasn’t been anything come through ARB or Council - it’s probably something to support the various events they hold throughout the year. 

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17 hours ago, 23320 said:

I would expect more site work prior to concrete being poured. Based on the description & that there hasn’t been anything come through ARB or Council - it’s probably something to support the various events they hold throughout the year. 

More than likely for the annual ice skating rink that goes in that spot.

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9 hours ago, vdogg said:

More than likely for the annual ice skating rink that goes in that spot.

I walked by a few days ago, and noticed that they layed down the saline tubes for the ice rink( the large pad in the southwest corner). I would guess the smaller pads are for the various flat rides in the winter carnival. They seem to be in the same locations of some of the larger rides last year.

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Yes, right.  So when I saw the update and clicked on it, I knew for certain that there would be nothing  new here to see lol. Because this was Kenny's 2018 SOTC confection/concoction. 

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2 hours ago, BFG said:

Apparently Starwood is in default on a $750M loan that includes MacArthur as collateral. I’m guessing this puts this particular project in jeopardy?

https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-macarthur-center-loan-20191219-jmqhxxjgfjartgaesrr5sdmraa-story.html

How the !?&@ is this even possible? Unbelievable. Well, maybe whoever buys MacArthur will tear it down and reestablish the core with dense, mixed-use, development.

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I'm at the point to where the next time Norfolk announces a major project, I won't even hold my breath until I know there's a groundbreaking. Everything turns out underwhelming or put on the back burner indefinitely (this, Gateway Tower, that apartment building that was supposed to go next to the Chick-Fil-A on Monticello).

Meanwhile, other similar-sized metros like Charlotte chug right along. It's entirely frustrating, and I'm tired of leaders and the Chamber selling us this idea that we're headed to the next level.

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If that mall dies/fails it will really hurt all the progress that's been made. That mall (IMHO) is what started bringing people back to downtown who didn't work in DT.  Not really worried about the mixed-use component, more concerned now about the mall.

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I fear this thing will just be an empty shell in the near future. The city will have no vision or plan, they will just try and piece together something for the next 10-20 years. If a large "glossy" plan does arise it will get stalled with studies, questionnaires and townhall meetings. Spend countless years and millions of dollars trying to figure the best way to redevelop. Once it's finalized it will be a watered down very large enclosed strip mall with small start-ups.

Like I've said before, get in a damn car or get on a plane and see what other cities are doing!!!! Stop thinking, "Well that wouldn't work here". Ya know what doesn't work here...what we are currently doing. Like I said, we are where we are because of us. Can't blame the economy...it's booming. Can't blame the military...look at Jacksonville or San Diego, they're doing great. This goes for every city in HR!!! I mean even much smaller cities are making us look bad. They are growing and reinventing themselves all around us. Yet we want to figure out what we should call ourselves....757, Tidewater, Hampton Roads, Coastal Va., COVA. Who effing cares!!!! While we are laser focused on our identity other cities/metros are blowing past us. They are MAKING a name for themselves. So, just keep doing what you're doing. Let's continue to fight each other for the next 30 job warehouse expansion and the new cosmetology masters school program and check back with us in 20 years. We'll see how this all ends.        

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2 hours ago, Willy18 said:

I fear this thing will just be an empty shell in the near future. The city will have no vision or plan, they will just try and piece together something for the next 10-20 years. If a large "glossy" plan does arise it will get stalled with studies, questionnaires and townhall meetings. Spend countless years and millions of dollars trying to figure the best way to redevelop. Once it's finalized it will be a watered down very large enclosed strip mall with small start-ups.

Like I've said before, get in a damn car or get on a plane and see what other cities are doing!!!! Stop thinking, "Well that wouldn't work here". Ya know what doesn't work here...what we are currently doing. Like I said, we are where we are because of us. Can't blame the economy...it's booming. Can't blame the military...look at Jacksonville or San Diego, they're doing great. This goes for every city in HR!!! I mean even much smaller cities are making us look bad. They are growing and reinventing themselves all around us. Yet we want to figure out what we should call ourselves....757, Tidewater, Hampton Roads, Coastal Va., COVA. Who effing cares!!!! While we are laser focused on our identity other cities/metros are blowing past us. They are MAKING a name for themselves. So, just keep doing what you're doing. Let's continue to fight each other for the next 30 job warehouse expansion and the new cosmetology masters school program and check back with us in 20 years. We'll see how this all ends.        

I'm not shocked 1 bit. I know this is going to sound crazy, but I've said this time and time again, look at their vision for SPQ. This shouldn't shock anyone, certainly doesn't shock me. I think you are spot on with the issues, I agree with you 100%.  SPQ IMO represented exactly what you mentioned here. For that reason, I had to decompress my hopes a little of Norfolk turning the corner in a real way. They said this (mall issues) was coming a few years after the mall was built as the rest of the country started to move away from malls. This is why I continue to say things need to be built in a way that it can be easily be changed/modified or expanded without much need for fan fare. Without daring to be great, we are lost. Its easy to say look at we are now vs before, but how does that measure up to other cities our size? The military and beach still continue to reign supreme here.

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14 hours ago, BFG said:

I'm at the point to where the next time Norfolk announces a major project, I won't even hold my breath until I know there's a groundbreaking. Everything turns out underwhelming or put on the back burner indefinitely (this, Gateway Tower, that apartment building that was supposed to go next to the Chick-Fil-A on Monticello).

Meanwhile, other similar-sized metros like Charlotte chug right along. It's entirely frustrating, and I'm tired of leaders and the Chamber selling us this idea that we're headed to the next level.

I'm tired of this crap too.....It has to be our leadership in this region to not make any real progress.....We need real leaders here that will grow this metro area to its full potential

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3 hours ago, Willy18 said:

I fear this thing will just be an empty shell in the near future. The city will have no vision or plan, they will just try and piece together something for the next 10-20 years. If a large "glossy" plan does arise it will get stalled with studies, questionnaires and townhall meetings. Spend countless years and millions of dollars trying to figure the best way to redevelop. Once it's finalized it will be a watered down very large enclosed strip mall with small start-ups.

Like I've said before, get in a damn car or get on a plane and see what other cities are doing!!!! Stop thinking, "Well that wouldn't work here". Ya know what doesn't work here...what we are currently doing. Like I said, we are where we are because of us. Can't blame the economy...it's booming. Can't blame the military...look at Jacksonville or San Diego, they're doing great. This goes for every city in HR!!! I mean even much smaller cities are making us look bad. They are growing and reinventing themselves all around us. Yet we want to figure out what we should call ourselves....757, Tidewater, Hampton Roads, Coastal Va., COVA. Who effing cares!!!! While we are laser focused on our identity other cities/metros are blowing past us. They are MAKING a name for themselves. So, just keep doing what you're doing. Let's continue to fight each other for the next 30 job warehouse expansion and the new cosmetology masters school program and check back with us in 20 years. We'll see how this all ends.        

We need real leadership here.....we have never really had real leadership in this region and this needs to change. We need someone that sees the true potential of this beautiful region....Someone that really loves this region needs to step up and take the reigns that has the ability to make this happen.

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3 hours ago, Norva757 said:

We need real leadership here.....we have never really had real leadership in this region and this needs to change. We need someone that sees the true potential of this beautiful region....Someone that really loves this region needs to step up and take the reigns that has the ability to make this happen.

Agreed 110%. Where is this Starwood proposal? Where is the new arena? Where are we at with the Gateway? Where is the building boom other metros are having? These mayors and city leaders need to grow a pair and start making things happen. Stop just filling the position and make real economic changes/decisions for our cities and region.  

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I keep reading about promising results from the Chamber of Commerce, and hear from local leaders and council members that we're working on regionalism. Like I said above, I won't believe any signs of progress until I see the progress. Right now, Norfolk is 0-for-2 with Starwood and Gateway. Their best bet at an arena is getting the other cities on board with a promising plan that allows everyone to benefit.

The only way that's happening is if there's minimal taxes (i.e. no property tax raises, just hotels/rental cars). And I guarantee VB residents will still complain even if they don't have to pay.

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On 10/28/2019 at 5:24 PM, michael ary said:

I feel like the Triangle and HR share a lot of commonalities. Although the distance to get from once city to the other is a little greater in the triangle, you still have the one city that feels like it's better than all the others (Cary/Virginia Beach), the two cities who want to be the top dog (Raleigh/Durham, NFK/VB), the one city that the others look down on (Portsmouth/Durham) and instead of building up they continue to spread further and furher out for overproced Ryan homes planned subdivisions. The bigggest difference I've noticed is that the Triangle is growing by leaps and bounds and HR is continuing to go in circles.

Actually that is good analysis.  How about this name for your region?  Tidewater Metros or just Southeast Virginia Metro and that would indicate there are multiple cities there.   The Piedmont Triad of NC  Greensboro Winston-Salem and High Point actually has a similar problem with Hampton Roads/Norfolk VA Beach Newport News Hampton Chesapeake/Tidewater/the757 etc    The name was confusing to outsiders.   The Feds broke that into 2 metros and it seemed to help as the 2 dominant cities Greensboro and Winston each stand on their own now despite people commuting between the 2 everyday. 

The Triangle area of NC Raleigh Durham Chapel Hill is now 2 separate metro areas but they have greater name recognition due to the Research Triangle Park being in the center.  Raleigh Cary  Metro which is Wake County dominated is growing very fast and Durham Chapel Hill is a separate metro even though 1000s of commuters travel between both.  Maybe breaking off the Hampton Newport News side  and then lump the southside cities all together would help.  Virginia Beach is a large suburban city the size of the old P. A. county and Norfolk is the historical urban core of the region.  The way Virginia has landlocked all your cities separate from the counties and so forth as contributed to all this competition.  As former Fairfax County resident I know that area has branded itself as Northern Virginia and most know what and where that means.   Raleigh is still the largest city in the metro and yes Cary is powerful force in its own way but is still way smaller than Raleigh.  Put together Raleigh Durham Chapel Hill  metros together as they once were is larger now than Hampton Roads metro due to tremendous growth.    (while some people make look down on Durham many people from Raleigh and Cary flock over there for the DPAC Durham Performing Arts Center and their unique downtown)( and you talk about rivalries nothing beats the UNC vs Duke vs NC State on the court or field) 

In terms of growth I think the Hampton Roads is growing more slowly due to land constraints.  It is now spilling into far northeastern NC.  There is no easy answer other than regional cooperation big time and spending bucks marketing the region as a whole.  But I do think a north south split of the metros could be helpful believe it or not.  Your region has a lot of strengths including your massive port facilities, military bases but there does seem to be much less cooperation in the 757  than in the NC metros that have multiple city anchors.   It is easier when you have one dominant city like where I am from in Charlotte but Raleigh Durham may show you how to do it.  

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https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/j-crew-and-3-other-stores-leaving-macarthur-center-but-more-stores-are-on-the-way-in/

Saw this article on Wavy about even more stores leaving MacArthur. Good news is that I can now play putt putt in the dark and get pictures taken with my dog all under one roof....truly tough to watch this car crash.

Gonna end up like a 3 story Military Circle.  

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