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I think a lot more people are working from home. It might be a little early to see whether that changes. I went downtown last Friday afternoon and again earlier this week and it seemed fairly busy, so I guess things are picking up slowly but surely. 

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LOL. No offense, but... Newsflash! All kinds of people have automobiles, and VB is not exactly the Tower on the Hill most of it's residents believe it to be. VB needs to evolve from 1963.

Came home for our family reunion this past weekend. First time in a long time I was able to drive around parts of Norfolk and I must say, Norfolk is looking good. I was surprised and shocked how much

Ok, let's try this again. -No more coronavirus. That is not a topic that can be discussed rationally so we're done with that. -Steer clear of national/international politics. Do not discuss

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3 hours ago, varider said:

Just curious, do you all think that DT NFK as a business center is dead?  

A decade ago, there appeared to be much more foot traffic and office workers/ suits traveling to other offices and down Granby and the mall and even the old Waterside during lunch. I know we’ve been dealing with the pandemic and WFH, but other cities are starting to recover and downtowns are returning to normal, while NFK is still fairly quiet during the day and I am concerned that we may never see a busy daytime downtown again. I used to go out to lunch with my dad and be in awe of how many business people were out to lunch. My first interview after college was DT and the entire interview group walked to lunch and the company paid for it. 

nowadays, it seems like DT is transitioning more into a place to chill and ride scooters or go to events and less of a place to work and conduct business. It is disheartening to see Norfolk Southern leave for a $600M+ HQ in Atlanta and the BoA building turned into apartments, and to know that we have very little chance of seeing a new office tower (Gateway) because places like Summit Pointe or Town Center will likely be viewed as the more attractive option closer to where more people are choosing to live (Chesapeake/VB). 
 

Can someone else offer a more positive/hopeful perspective? Even if downtown is in a transition phase, do you think that the delay we are seeing on Gravity 400 is cause for concern? I’m very interested in others opinions here.

The lack of white collar jobs and the fact that the Navy is cutting civilian jobs in the area is really an issue and I am worried that Norfolk development is cooling off and becoming more stagnant because of it. 

I think the city might need a miracle..

I actually feel the opposite way. I’m currently visiting Norfolk for two weeks from Seattle-Tacoma area and it was a big relief to come back to the area after 4 years and not see large swaths of the central business district with dead pockets of boarded up businesses like I’ve seen in Downtown Portland and Downtown Seattle. It seems as though downtown Norfolk weathered the pandemic really well compared to some other cities. 
 

But I do agree with your point in Downtown Norfolk becoming more of a lifestyle area to live vs big businesses being attracted but I would rather it become a super attractive place for people to want to live so that it can continue to grow. I do like the developments in Chesapeake and VB but I do feel as though eventually they will plateau compared to places with many draws such as the oceanfront and downtown Norfolk and I think others are starting to see that. The Taco Bell still being on the corner in town center really sold that for me along with the lack of transportation options, NoVas centers actually have that. I think once something is done with military and you have two destinations at the end of the Light rail line you will see even more demand.

side note if Norfolk just really put money into its school systems total overhauls, there would be no competition. Norfolk has a real lack of leadership holding it back and it doesn’t seem to be the city itself so many simple things could have been done to increase grow in all areas. 
 

The city needs to fix its school system, then after that end single family zoning.

I can see why Norfolk’s population didn’t get the boat we thought it would I drove though so many neighborhoods and it seems the city is still focused on bulldozing unsightly properties with so many empty lots (that had Appartments, homes, or small warehouses on them before I left) to hope for future development that never comes when those buildings could have been renovated or restored adding to character of a neighborhood. All those empty lots I would loosen zoning resurrections for higher density  or incentivize or make a fast track option for developers to cut costs for them. 

Just my 2cents I’ve lived all over the country and always end up coming back because apparently I’m one of the few people who actually likes it here because I’ve lived in some pretty terrible cities.

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53 minutes ago, Si7i said:

I actually feel the opposite way. I’m currently visiting Norfolk for two weeks from Seattle-Tacoma area and it was a big relief to come back to the area after 4 years and not see large swaths of the central business district with dead pockets of boarded up businesses like I’ve seen in Downtown Portland and Downtown Seattle. It seems as though downtown Norfolk weathered the pandemic really well compared to some other cities. 
 

But I do agree with your point in Downtown Norfolk becoming more of a lifestyle area to live vs big businesses being attracted but I would rather it become a super attractive place for people to want to live so that it can continue to grow. I do like the developments in Chesapeake and VB but I do feel as though eventually they will plateau compared to places with many draws such as the oceanfront and downtown Norfolk and I think others are starting to see that. The Taco Bell still being on the corner in town center really sold that for me along with the lack of transportation options, NoVas centers actually have that. I think once something is done with military and you have two destinations at the end of the Light rail line you will see even more demand.

side note if Norfolk just really put money into its school systems total overhauls, there would be no competition. Norfolk has a real lack of leadership holding it back and it doesn’t seem to be the city itself so many simple things could have been done to increase grow in all areas. 
 

The city needs to fix its school system, then after that end single family zoning.

I can see why Norfolk’s population didn’t get the boat we thought it would I drove though so many neighborhoods and it seems the city is still focused on bulldozing unsightly properties with so many empty lots (that had Appartments, homes, or small warehouses on them before I left) to hope for future development that never comes when those buildings could have been renovated or restored adding to character of a neighborhood. All those empty lots I would loosen zoning resurrections for higher density  or incentivize or make a fast track option for developers to cut costs for them. 

Just my 2cents I’ve lived all over the country and always end up coming back because apparently I’m one of the few people who actually likes it here because I’ve lived in some pretty terrible cities.

I just would ask, what are somethings you would do to "fix" the school system?  I've heard that term for years but no real ideas that will support a fix. What I have seen in more recent years were about making things "fair" and updating schools; that doesn't address the things that go on in school.  I'm also saying this is from the perspective of someone who knows people who work in the school system and their observations and my own.  If you were to ask me, I think Norfolk has to fix its city/neighborhoods in terms of its people and you will see better schools follow. I've always seen administrations try to fix things internally with little to 0 results, in fact, it usually ends in a bigger school budget and marginal real results.

I agree Norfolk has a leadership problem, we have all said this for years. There is definitely a consensus of that. What kind of leader would be an optimum question. I'll give you a perfect reason why Mayor alexander isn't good for Norfolk now: his heart is tied to the city that is reflective of his upbringing. We need a mayor and council that is willing to be daring and this group just isn't from the outside looking in. I remember a story a few years ago about the Hershey bar being closed in favor of what if you were to go to 5 points now in Norview (knocked down/demo-ed)? Its literally a plot of open land now. It makes the place look even more blight if you ask me. But that is representation of leadership in Norfolk. 

I also agree they need to quit with this single family zoning. GIVE IT UP.  Its like they are trying to compete in an area they shouldn't. Norfolk doesn't have the land mass support that kind of living, thus the thought process of it has changed. People have heard me B-moan-and complain about the SPQ, I still stand strong in my convictions that its a bad plan and everything that people like is a factor of it being horrible forever that "anything" is better than what we have now. But I believe its a terrible utilization of land.

This was Norfolk's time to be daring, they rocked back on their heels and did what they always did what was "safe". And safe has it's place, but everything just seems so fragmented and disjointed in their approaches. I hate their lack of conviction and lack of foresight. I live in bmore county now, and even bmore city as terrible as it is has more connectivity, foresight,  and conviction than Norfolk and if you have spent anytime here, you know that is saying a lot.

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1 hour ago, brikkman said:

I live in bmore county now, and even bmore city as terrible as it is has more connectivity, foresight,  and conviction than Norfolk and if you have spent anytime here, you know that is saying a lot.

Years ago, someone once told me Baltimore is "Norfolk done right". This was probably late-2000s...I visited in spring of '16, and saw what they meant. The layout of downtown reminds me a lot of here, but the activity was vibrant. I think there was an Orioles game happening that day, so that explains a lot.

I have a love-hate relationship with the area. It's come a long way from the late-90s or even the early-2010s, but we're horribly behind other metros of the same size. I will go to my grave saying Princess Anne and Norfolk Counties becoming cities hurt the growth of this region and created nothing more than a 60-year-long p!ssing match instead of a unified metro. Every city wants to have urban and suburban within its city limits, instead of one urban core with surrounding suburbs. Crazy thing is, I hear most people refer to where they live by the community and not the city. For example, "John lives in Greenbrier" instead of Chesapeake, so we might as well have kept the county system. People I talk to who moved here don't get why it's so fractured or dysfunctional. But I digress.

I think Military Circle and the Tide extension will decide how much longer I live here. I'm almost 40 and don't want to think my best years were spent in a stagnant metro where the status quo is just good enough. I want somebody to take the reins and move forward, and tell the NIMBYs what they can do.

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4 hours ago, BFG said:

Years ago, someone once told me Baltimore is "Norfolk done right". This was probably late-2000s...I visited in spring of '16, and saw what they meant. The layout of downtown reminds me a lot of here, but the activity was vibrant. I think there was an Orioles game happening that day, so that explains a lot.

I For example, "John lives in Greenbrier" instead of Chesapeake, so we might as well have kept the county system. People I talk to who moved here don't get why it's so fractured or dysfunctional. But I digress.

No one is from New York City. They're from Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, Harlem, etc. I've never once heard a true New Yorker say they're from New York, they always identify with the neighborhood and/or borough, but they still have pride in the city as a whole. I don't think people identifying with a particular neighborhood is in and of itself an indication of things being dysfunctional. Our very transient military population has far more to do with our identity crisis in that regard.

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9 hours ago, brikkman said:

I just would ask, what are somethings you would do to "fix" the school system?  I've heard that term for years but no real ideas that will support a fix. What I have seen in more recent years were about making things "fair" and updating schools; that doesn't address the things that go on in school.  I'm also saying this is from the perspective of someone who knows people who work in the school system and their observations and my own.  If you were to ask me, I think Norfolk has to fix its city/neighborhoods in terms of its people and you will see better schools follow. I've always seen administrations try to fix things internally with little to 0 results, in fact, it usually ends in a bigger school budget and marginal real results.

I agree Norfolk has a leadership problem, we have all said this for years. There is definitely a consensus of that. What kind of leader would be an optimum question. I'll give you a perfect reason why Mayor alexander isn't good for Norfolk now: his heart is tied to the city that is reflective of his upbringing. We need a mayor and council that is willing to be daring and this group just isn't from the outside looking in. I remember a story a few years ago about the Hershey bar being closed in favor of what if you were to go to 5 points now in Norview (knocked down/demo-ed)? Its literally a plot of open land now. It makes the place look even more blight if you ask me. But that is representation of leadership in Norfolk. 

I also agree they need to quit with this single family zoning. GIVE IT UP.  Its like they are trying to compete in an area they shouldn't. Norfolk doesn't have the land mass support that kind of living, thus the thought process of it has changed. People have heard me B-moan-and complain about the SPQ, I still stand strong in my convictions that its a bad plan and everything that people like is a factor of it being horrible forever that "anything" is better than what we have now. But I believe its a terrible utilization of land.

This was Norfolk's time to be daring, they rocked back on their heels and did what they always did what was "safe". And safe has it's place, but everything just seems so fragmented and disjointed in their approaches. I hate their lack of conviction and lack of foresight. I live in bmore county now, and even bmore city as terrible as it is has more connectivity, foresight,  and conviction than Norfolk and if you have spent anytime here, you know that is saying a lot.

When I say fix the schools, I mean a total expensive restructuring. I’ve been though the Norfolk school system  and I’ve seen the big issues going to both Booker T. Washington and Norview. We couldn’t even use our tennis courts and other faculties in the building because no money was distributed to that particular school, teachers were often low quality as well. I saw students turn into your typical stereo typical interpretation of the urban community.  While going to this school as kids we wondered why our high school was still operational  in its current condition this was in 2011. If you look at Norfolk’s school system there seems to be to many schools and and a fear of creating bigger concentrations of schools. The system is basically drowning in itself with most money going to buildings that are falling apart sporadically placed thought the city to support a city population that the city no longer has.  This again leads to the need for leadership that needs to come in and shake things up and do city wide smart redistributing using stats and research on where schools need to actually be. Not on how the neighborhood was when it was build in the 50s
 

I’ve traveled other places and experienced that I’ve had a lower education than my peers and often at times feel like I learned nothing in my high school experience. I have some true teacher horror stories that I’m pretty sure would be picked up by a news story if they were known about teachers that taught within the NPS system and daily building issues and administrative structures. 
 

Fixing the school I agree will come with more development only because of more funding, but a leader could change things and make the system a priority, because education is a pivotal tool that could make Norfolk a better city.

 

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No one is from New York City. They're from Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, Harlem, etc. I've never once heard a true New Yorker say they're from New York, they always identify with the neighborhood and/or borough, but they still have pride in the city as a whole. I don't think people identifying with a particular neighborhood is in and of itself an indication of things being dysfunctional. Our very transient military population has far more to do with our identity crisis in that regard.

I think you’re right, but it’s more about context, like who you are talking to or where you’re talking. If you’re in Hampton Roads and your telling someone in Hampton Roads where you live, it’s not surprising you’d say something specific like Ghent or Kempsville or Phoebus. But let’s say you’re somewhere else in Virginia or northeastern NC, you’d probably be specific down to the city-level and say Chesapeake, Hampton etc. But if you’re in Topeka or Dallas or somewhere, you might say Norfolk, but then have to add something like “do you know where Richmond is? It’s a little southeast of there” or “if you just picture the Chesapeake Bay, it’s basically the southern shore of that bay” or whatever. If you’re traveling overseas, you even go so far as to say “near DC” because to someone in Italy, that’s as deep as they can relate. I’ve been overseas though, been talking to folks who don’t know the area and had to use the “near DC” description, but then in the group I’m in, someone said “where near DC? I live in Newport News” and immediately we start in with what neighborhood he lives in and I live in like we just met on the VB boardwalk. Bottom line, we all do that with our identification of our community. It’s just easier when dealing with big cities where we also know the names of those boroughs and even some of their sub-units too (Hell’s Kitchen, Greenwich Village, Broadway, etc) to see into that dynamic but it happens here too like everywhere else. I agree with you though, it doesn’t mean this area is less united per se, but I also think we do have a dearth of metropolitan-level or region-level markers of identity.

Last point, I don’t think the military has a huge part in the challenges of identity. It’s the cluster of small cities fighting to distinguish themselves and lack of regional/metro area identity markers (think of the NY Yankees logo). Few things around here are called the Hampton Roads _____. It’s the Norfolk Tides, the Hampton Coliseum, the VB Convention center, the Norfolk Airport, the Peninsula Chamber of Commerce, etc so we fail to coalesce around any clear identity because we’re not forced to. In fact we’re forced not to. However, look at Honolulu, Colorado Springs, and San Diego. All huge military populations(SD might have the largest military footprint in the US) without any identity issues. I didn’t even need to include the state and you knew where these places were. Why? Because they are unified metro areas. San Diego has the San Diego Zoo, San Diego Airport, San Diego convention center, San Diego Padres, and the San Diego Union-Tribune. People there are forced to constantly participate in or interact with things that identify them with San Diego, no matter where in the metro area they live. Bottom line, the military is not the problem.


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13 hours ago, Mountain_Junior said:


I think you’re right, but it’s more about context, like who you are talking to or where you’re talking. If you’re in Hampton Roads and your telling someone in Hampton Roads where you live, it’s not surprising you’d say something specific like Ghent or Kempsville or Phoebus. But let’s say you’re somewhere else in Virginia or northeastern NC, you’d probably be specific down to the city-level and say Chesapeake, Hampton etc. But if you’re in Topeka or Dallas or somewhere, you might say Norfolk, but then have to add something like “do you know where Richmond is? It’s a little southeast of there” or “if you just picture the Chesapeake Bay, it’s basically the southern shore of that bay” or whatever. If you’re traveling overseas, you even go so far as to say “near DC” because to someone in Italy, that’s as deep as they can relate. I’ve been overseas though, been talking to folks who don’t know the area and had to use the “near DC” description, but then in the group I’m in, someone said “where near DC? I live in Newport News” and immediately we start in with what neighborhood he lives in and I live in like we just met on the VB boardwalk. Bottom line, we all do that with our identification of our community. It’s just easier when dealing with big cities where we also know the names of those boroughs and even some of their sub-units too (Hell’s Kitchen, Greenwich Village, Broadway, etc) to see into that dynamic but it happens here too like everywhere else. I agree with you though, it doesn’t mean this area is less united per se, but I also think we do have a dearth of metropolitan-level or region-level markers of identity.

Last point, I don’t think the military has a huge part in the challenges of identity. It’s the cluster of small cities fighting to distinguish themselves and lack of regional/metro area identity markers (think of the NY Yankees logo). Few things around here are called the Hampton Roads _____. It’s the Norfolk Tides, the Hampton Coliseum, the VB Convention center, the Norfolk Airport, the Peninsula Chamber of Commerce, etc so we fail to coalesce around any clear identity because we’re not forced to. In fact we’re forced not to. However, look at Honolulu, Colorado Springs, and San Diego. All huge military populations(SD might have the largest military footprint in the US) without any identity issues. I didn’t even need to include the state and you knew where these places were. Why? Because they are unified metro areas. San Diego has the San Diego Zoo, San Diego Airport, San Diego convention center, San Diego Padres, and the San Diego Unio7 cn-Tribune. People there are forced to constantly participate in or interact with things that identify them with San Diego, no matter where in the metro area they live. Bottom line, the military is not the problem.


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Virginia Beach is getting to be known nationwide if not world wide, because people already know Virginia Beach is in Virginia its in the city's name, secondly most people know Virginia Beach because it is a top tier east coast vacation spot right there with Myrtle Beach,  Hilton Head and Miami.  When I mention I was born in Norfolk people from Los Angeles to Houston to New York have at least heard of Norfolk and even know its a Navy Town but it doesn't have the identity Virginia Beach has.    I love the Ad that promoted both Norfolk and Virginia Beach.  That ad could also include the 7 cities and 10 counties that makes up Hampton Roads.  No reason that the area known as Hampton Roads can't become well known nationwide and worldwide.  

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Virginia Beach needs to decide what it wants to be. Are you a large resort town, a suburb, the country, or an urban area? I'm not saying it can't be all four, but they go back-and-forth more than most of us change our clothes.

It baffles me how until last year or so, no one thought the tourism campaign should include all or most of Hampton Roads, instead of just one or two cities at a time. I've seen local destinations offered as prizes on game shows, but it was just Virginia Beach or Norfolk. I immediately thought to myself how great the exposure could've been by branding it as a "Virginia" getaway that includes a stay at the Cavalier or The Main, tickets to a show at Chrysler Hall/Sandler Center, and something at Colonial Williamsburg. Throw in concierge service that takes you to each place.

Our regional name that keeps changing every decade is irrelevant if the cities can't find some unity.

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6 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

Virginia Beach is getting to be known nationwide if not world wide, because people already know Virginia Beach is in Virginia its in the city's name, secondly most people know Virginia Beach because it is a top tier east coast vacation spot right there with Myrtle Beach,  Hilton Head and Miami.  When I mention I was born in Norfolk people from Los Angeles to Houston to New York have at least heard of Norfolk and even know its a Navy Town but it doesn't have the identity Virginia Beach has.    I love the Ad that promoted both Norfolk and Virginia Beach.  That ad could also include the 7 cities and 10 counties that makes up Hampton Roads.  No reason that the area known as Hampton Roads can't become well known nationwide and worldwide.  

When I went to London and said I was from Virginia Beach people immediately knew where I was talking about. It's a tourist destination, and pre pandemic, the Royal Navy visited every summer. It makes sense that Va. Beach would have that level of recognition.

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Saying all that though I hate how usually that Norfolk is seen as the ghetto of the area as if Portsmouth and New Port News wernt worse. We gotten pretty hidden to the point when I was talking to someone last weekend who traveled here I Told them im from Norfolk, Specifically the downtown area. They looked at me and litterly said "OH so your from the ghetto. How are you not shot yet? Also when the hell did Norfolk get a downtown? Are they trying to be something their not again?" I looked at him in a complete terror of what people dont actually know about us. The part "Are they trying to be something their not again?" is for some reason splitting my mind and soul in two. If the region doesn't unify under a Signal Metropolitan area all we will be known as is Williamsburg or VB.  

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When I visited London about 11 years ago I did mention I was born in Norfolk, Virginia.  They did know that Norfolk is a large Navy Town and just like you said the Royal Navy visits often.  Also helps that Norfolk is home to the only North American headquarters for NATO.  

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Norfolk, 1996. This was the year I graduated high school, and this was the downtown I grew up with. This is what I thought downtowns just looked like, a street with some office buildings, another street with some old buildings, and a lot of surface parking lots. Looking at this photo with the city I grew up by, it really makes me sad how much of this city was lost to itself. When looking at this photo, it makes sense to plop a giant mall in that spot because it wasn't taking over anything of value anymore because that was already gone. Hopefully with replacing the mall, the street grid can be recreated and hopefully a new center of downtown could rise up from this.

199609DWNTWNNORTH07453.jpg?resize=750%2C

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7 hours ago, urbanlife said:

Norfolk, 1996. This was the year I graduated high school, and this was the downtown I grew up with. This is what I thought downtowns just looked like, a street with some office buildings, another street with some old buildings, and a lot of surface parking lots. Looking at this photo with the city I grew up by, it really makes me sad how much of this city was lost to itself. When looking at this photo, it makes sense to plop a giant mall in that spot because it wasn't taking over anything of value anymore because that was already gone. Hopefully with replacing the mall, the street grid can be recreated and hopefully a new center of downtown could rise up from this.

199609DWNTWNNORTH07453.jpg?resize=750%2C

I agree.  Here’s a photo of the same area, about 20 years earlier, showing the same acres and acres of surface parking lots.  The city tried to market that site to developers for decades, with no takers.  When Taubman proposed an upscale mall for downtown, who can blame them for jumping at the opportunity.  I agree that MacArthur’s time has come and gone, but at the time, it was the best option available.

Many thanks to NFKfloodcaptain.  The best thing I got from his post on the MacArthur thread this week "When Replacing MacArthur Center, Double Down on Downtown’s Wins", was learning that NRHA has such a huge trove of historic photographs. 

https://nrha.photoshelter.com/gallery-list

MacArthur Mall Lot - 1978.jpg

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Compare those 2 photos to a current photo of the same area and it will show that Norfolk has made tremendous strides over the last 40 years improving the urban density and development despite the prevalent feeling that it hasn't.

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And here is Downtown Norfolk Today.  

596e678abe78b.image.jpg

4 hours ago, virginia pe said:

I agree.  Here’s a photo of the same area, about 20 years earlier, showing the same acres and acres of surface parking lots.  The city tried to market that site to developers for decades, with no takers.  When Taubman proposed an upscale mall for downtown, who can blame them for jumping at the opportunity.  I agree that MacArthur’s time has come and gone, but at the time, it was the best option available.

Many thanks to NFKfloodcaptain.  The best thing I got from his post on the MacArthur thread this week "When Replacing MacArthur Center, Double Down on Downtown’s Wins", was learning that NRHA has such a huge trove of historic photographs. 

https://nrha.photoshelter.com/gallery-list

MacArthur Mall Lot - 1978.jpg

This is the Downtown Norfolk I remember when I was in High School in Virginia Beach.  Our senior prom was at the Omni Waterfront Hotel now the Sheraton Waterside.  

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9 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

Compare those 2 photos to a current photo of the same area and it will show that Norfolk has made tremendous strides over the last 40 years improving the urban density and development despite the prevalent feeling that it hasn't.

Unfortunately, in the photo EJ_Lewis posted, our tallest building, Dominion Tower, is barely visible.  It's there, but you have to look very hard to see it.

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https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/tide-light-rail-expansion-military-circle/291-f199d31a-771c-4031-a895-c519c22ccc63 New details on HRT And the Tide Expansion.....Why cant they just extend the damn thing down VB boulevard with stops all the way to Town Center(or  from military circle straight to TC)?  It would be logical since they have the giant median all the way down to TC anyways. They want construction to start 2028 but for me to wait that long it better be extended more somewhat. 

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I really need to understand why it would take seven years just to start construction. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this typical slow Norfolk?

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6 minutes ago, BFG said:

I really need to understand why it would take seven years just to start construction. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this typical slow Norfolk?

Its not Norfolk....Its the HRT. They are obsessed with frikin busses. All they want is BUS. All they care is BUS. The Light rail 2mile expansion seems to be more of a way to cope with complaints from the people saying we need to expand and unite the area as one metropolitan. But 7 frikin years for 2 miles of track? NYC did their whole damn subway in less!  (Excuse my language)

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1 minute ago, Kevin Cheph Randall said:

That's kind of what it is though, not stealing the spotlight but not sharing it either. Every city builds with the hope of moving THEIR city along and no city helps the other. So it's hard to be excited about development with no regional benefits in mind. That's how we're here now, every city for itself, with a ton of redundant development.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is. What's good for a city isn't good for the region. The things that would benefit the region most aren't popular, especially if it means OUR cities are required to cooperate. 

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https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/tide-light-rail-expansion-military-circle/291-f199d31a-771c-4031-a895-c519c22ccc63 New details on HRT And the Tide Expansion.....Why cant they just extend the damn thing down VB boulevard with stops all the way to Town Center(or  from military circle straight to TC)?  It would be logical since they have the giant median all the way down to TC anyways. They want construction to start 2028 but for me to wait that long it better be extended more somewhat. 

Virginia Beach voters rejected it in 2016. HRT can’t unilaterally extend it to TC or anywhere else in VB, even if they have a dedicated right of way available. It was actually a non-binding referendum but the city council called for it prior to their vote on the matter and treated it as a referendum on how they should vote.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/article_a36b8dd8-6f6e-5f1e-a101-5b354db544c8.html


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I recommend everyone go to one of the public meetings. I went to the one at Wards Corner yesterday and it was very informative.

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2 hours ago, Kevin Cheph Randall said:

That's kind of what it is though, not stealing the spotlight but not sharing it either. Every city builds with the hope of moving THEIR city along and no city helps the other. So it's hard to be excited about development with no regional benefits in mind. That's how we're here now, every city for itself, with a ton of redundant development.

Back on topic, was it ever mentioned the tax revenue the casino would generate for Norfolk? Supposedly the tribe still owns land in Richmond and could build a casino in Richmond. The problem there is the casino would be able to evade alot of taxes. Is the same true in Norfolk? While Richmond Urban One Casino would actually provide taxes to Richmond. 

Did Norfolk really sign on just to get a casino? That only promised jobs and development? If so that's the kind of shortsighted competition that hurts the region.

Portsmouth Casino is expected to generate 7mil for the city, 1500 jobs, as well as opportunity for local and minority business owners to participate. Also looking to partner with TCC to start a hospitality department.  

 

People seem to have this strange notion that there's some magical wall on the city borders that causes a dollar to vaporize as soon as it crosses the city line, there is not. People live in Va. Beach and work in Norfolk, or live in Norfolk and work in Va. Beach, or any other of the numerous combinations you can get from a region with 7 main cities. The arena in Norfolk will benefit Chesapeake and Va. Beach directly as there will be a spill over effect in hotel rooms needed. Something in the Water, which was held in the oh so nefarious city of Va. Beach, sold out EVERY hotel room in Hampton Roads. Development in the region helps the region.

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