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vdogg

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1 hour ago, vdogg said:

Well that's... interesting... Don't know how to read that one, no idea the reasons behind this move. It's certainly a surprise as there were no known issues ongoing and VB has a large military presence. It was a popular festival, though admittedly not my particular cup of tea, it definitely drew crowds.

Surely, a stunning rebuke of Virginia Beach and her racist peoples and policies! 
Pharrell-2, VB-0!  

Single-handedly, the Great One—the omnipotent & omniscient Mr. Pharrell Williams—has brought the TOXIC Messieurs Dyer and Duhaney to their respective knobby knees!

But wait! I’m ahead of you. Albeit by a measly, single step. For some two hours ago, I wrote to  Council and asked them to please get ahead of this story before somebody started claiming that Pharrell Williams and racism took the festival away from VB!

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On 10/16/2021 at 8:22 PM, baobabs727 said:

Perhaps many of you idolize Pharrell and  famous entertainers, in general, whilst simultaneously never having liked Virginia Beach. That’s fine. Just recognize your own biases. 

I don’t play those games. I look at everyone individually on his/her own merits and each City, as well. And I was asking questions because no one seems to want to ask any questions; rather, they simply accept Pharrell’s narrative as total fact.  

Fact is, Pharrell is an authority on popular music. That’s it.  His letter was poorly written, incredibly generalized and communicated much of nothing about anything. There’s no logic in what he is saying; it’s all emotion. Calling the City and her leaders “Toxic”  was childish and patently defamatory.  Throwing a temper tantrum, picking up your marbles and your dice and whatever other toys you were playing with and marching off in a huff is no way to deal with your problems. 

Now as to the rest of your post, how do we know that’s what actually happened here? Who declared that a fact? Pharrell? Has the investigation been completed?  Did you expect the City just to accept what Pharrell said happened and call it a day? That’s not the way the real world works. These things take time. And there’s also the matter of the individual officer or officers involved.  You can’t smear their names willy nilly trying to assuage hurt feelings and minimize grief.  

Do the individuals involved in the violence bear any responsibility here? 

As I said, not only is Pharrell not an arbiter of public policing measures, he has no moral authority. I’m sorry for his loss, but trying to take his grief worldwide against  a City that he regularly proclaims claims to love is not the right way to go about solving problems.  

By the way, as to my own biases, I am almost the exact same age as Pharrell. I grew up in the Virginia Beach Schools band program at the same time he was involved. I knew of him at the time. I’ve always liked his music and still enjoy it to this day. I am a native of Virginia Beach and a very proud one at that. My ancestors day back to Norfolk around 1910, my parents were born and raised in Norfolk, and I lived in Norfolk for the better part of two decades. I love the City of Norfolk, but Norfolk also has its own problems with policing and race relations.

Let’s not get it twisted:  Virginia Beach is not the great bugaboo of HR.  

I ignored that reference to politics, but thank you for saying this. I didn’t think anyone would even need reminding of such a thing. 

I do not idolize Pharrell in the slightest, especially when pertaining to his shady business practices in the early 2000s in the music industry (but that’s another topic). 

I also do not see VB as a red headed child of the area. I actually see and explain the HR area to people all over the country as one city. 
 

I do think your own bias made you interpret my post in your own opinionated way.
 

I will try and reexplain. Pharrell is a businessman first and a musician second. Many metro areas that have had pivotal growth have had a powerful person whether it be a mayor, businessman, or conglomerates spark growth. Typically someone or some business that was grown within the metropolitan area. The city or metro then further promotes the growth of this catalyst (Pharrell) who wants to create more for the area. Chesapeake has Dollar Tree, Norfolk had a Fraim and Norfolk Southern. Alexander has been the most disappointing mayor Norfolk could ever have, he has no political pull or leadership whatsoever despite being a former congressman.

What I was trying to point out is that VB is squandering it’s opportunities because it is not playing the correct political game in promoting growth. Politicians lie, conservative, democratic, left, right, centrist, they all lie to get some type of gain. What I’m saying is VBs leadership wanted to stand so hard on their conservative values that they did not even put the effort into crafting a well thought out statement. A simple statement, that showed understanding of the situation. They did not need to state who was right or wrong just a statement that did not elude to financial benefits being the only reason to wanting to correct the situation. They did not need to dismantle their police force or set any policy what would ever or pass a law that would make a democrat happy. VB leadership seems to be senile and hard right, when playing businesses games and making big boy business decisions you do not put you political views into it you make the right call that has the best outcome.
 

All they had to do was craft a statement that eluded that they cared about the lost of human life though their own government processes.(I said the same thing in my previous post but it was politicized). 

Now this topic has become a right vs left when that’s not the issue that I’m seeing, but everything on the internet devolves into that. 
 

And I’m sorry but you’re dead wrong in saying that him politicizing his cousins death is the wrong way to trying to solve his problem. Politicizing issues is the only way problems in this country get solved because people don’t care about people anymore. People only care about issues when they effect them. 
 

Example what do you do see on the news here all the time? Car break-ins, why because neighbors get to get her and call wavy and then because they are on the news and it’s now an issue their neighborhood gets more patrols or cameras etc etc. 

Flint?

There’s so much more I want to address but I’m sure my point will be missed again. 

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On 10/16/2021 at 8:16 AM, Qdeathstar said:

How do we know it was wrong? The investigation isn’t done. Are we just supposed to condemn police for the sake of money?

deciding the outcome of  investigations based on political ideologies is certainly dangerous. So is believing outcome x only happened because of a political ideology.

 

 

you mean left lol

We don’t know anything, I was advocating for the city of VB to use tact. VB leadership it’s self made it political in only caring about the financial gain and not being in anyway remorseful, even if the police are in the 100 percent right at what point is it acceptable to not show sympathy or support for a lost life. Why does it become and issue of his cousin doing the wrong thing at the wrong time so he should have died? I don’t see it as a left or right issue but the city failing to see growth opportunities and squandering them on the wrong discussions no leadership in this area ever looks at the bigger picture. I hope Norfolk gets the festival not because I hate VB but because this area needs something it’s missing an identity and leadership.
 

see my post above. 

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After reading a lot of the comments about Virginia Beach losing three high profile events this month, I was pleasantly surprised to see the support of moving both the patriotic festival and SITW to Norfolk due to it central location in the region.   Pharrell has not said anything about SITW but Norfolk would be most remiss not to try to nab this high profile festival.  Norfolk has a long history of efficiently running large festivals like this.  

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According to Channel 13, the Patriotic Festival is moving because the organizers want an indoor venue as well. Right now they’ll use the Scope, but I imagine this could help push along the discussion for a new arena at Military Circle. 

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On 10/17/2021 at 1:05 AM, baobabs727 said:

Surely, a stunning rebuke of Virginia Beach and her racist peoples and policies! 
Pharrell-2, VB-0!  

Single-handedly, the Great One—the omnipotent & omniscient Mr. Pharrell Williams—has brought the TOXIC Messieurs Dyer and Duhaney to their respective knobby knees!

But wait! I’m ahead of you. Albeit by a measly, single step. For some two hours ago, I wrote to  Council and asked them to please get ahead of this story before somebody started claiming that Pharrell Williams and racism took the festival away from VB!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/patriotic-festival-pulls-out-of-vb-will-be-held-memorial-day-weekend-in-norfolk/amp/
 

So, what I already knew to be true is now being made official:  The organizers of the Patriotic Festival say that moving their event to Norfolk from Virginia Beach had nothing—ZERO—to do with Pharrell Williams, SITW or Virginia Beach leadership. Nothing about toxicity or racism…or old, greedy, rich white people either, for that matter. 

After I posted the above (as quoted), I recall laughing hysterically into the early morning hours at the folks on Facebook claiming that Pharrell did this to VB. Oh yes. There were even memes and GIFs in his likeness! Indeed, no doubt much like some here, the local FB crowd was fully engaged in knee-jerk schadenfreude. 

FACTS MATTER

So much for regionalism. But of course we all know that regionalism is golden as long as Virginia Beach stays in her lane and agrees with whatever Norfolk proposes.

 

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5 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/patriotic-festival-pulls-out-of-vb-will-be-held-memorial-day-weekend-in-norfolk/amp/
 

So, what I already knew to be true is now being made official:  The organizers of the Patriotic Festival say that moving their event to Norfolk from Virginia Beach had nothing—ZERO—to do with Pharrell Williams, SITW or Virginia Beach leadership. Nothing about toxicity or racism…or old, greedy, rich white people either, for that matter. 

After I posted the above (as quoted), I recall laughing hysterically into the early morning hours at the folks on Facebook claiming that Pharrell did this to VB. Oh yes. There were even memes and GIFs in his likeness! Indeed, no doubt much like some here, the local FB crowd was fully engaged in knee-jerk schadenfreude. 

FACTS MATTER

So much for regionalism. But of course we all know that regionalism is golden as long as Virginia Beach stays in her lane and agrees with whatever Norfolk proposes.

 

Hopefully VB does. Agreeing has been a small problem between the two cities ever since Norfolk got a light rail and maybe even farther down the line. But hopefully all goes well.

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7 hours ago, Mountain_Junior said:

 


Norfolk-VB disagreement far predates light rail, by like 50+ years at least, and that’s really just discuss the modern incarnation of VB (the independent city of VB). A quick snapshot of what I mean.

This article is from the Virginian-Pilot, Feb 7, 1967. VB had only existed for 4 years at this point.

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Here’s another from 1974 with a similar sentiment.

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And Norfolk-VB more than others. Even as Sidney Kellam was trying to consolidate Princess Anne and VB, Norfolk Mayor Fred Duckworth was trying to undermine that merger. It was from literally day one.

It’s a bit like in movies and tv shows when two sworn enemies get handcuffed together, so they’re forced to begrudgingly cooperate. Except it’s usually played for laughs. Not so much laughing here.

 

My goodness. Seems like Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and Norfolk have fixed their bonds as Chesapeake is having talks with Portsmouth about letting emergency crews cross city lines to help each other in emergency situations, and Norfolk is looking into some type of light rail to greenbrier plan with Chesapeake. But VB and Norfolk....Two of our Major Cities in the area still compete for better and yet VB is seemingly losing its race here with Pharrell even calling it a "toxic energy" and sadly the loss of 3 festivals 1 of witch (The patriotic festival) are moving to Norfolk's Downtown. And if SITW moves there too it will be a massive blow to VB.

Its weird how Norfolk has Better relationships with Newport News thats across the water than its own land neighbor. 

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16 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/patriotic-festival-pulls-out-of-vb-will-be-held-memorial-day-weekend-in-norfolk/amp/
 

So, what I already knew to be true is now being made official:  The organizers of the Patriotic Festival say that moving their event to Norfolk from Virginia Beach had nothing—ZERO—to do with Pharrell Williams, SITW or Virginia Beach leadership. Nothing about toxicity or racism…or old, greedy, rich white people either, for that matter. 

After I posted the above (as quoted), I recall laughing hysterically into the early morning hours at the folks on Facebook claiming that Pharrell did this to VB. Oh yes. There were even memes and GIFs in his likeness! Indeed, no doubt much like some here, the local FB crowd was fully engaged in knee-jerk schadenfreude. 

FACTS MATTER

So much for regionalism. But of course we all know that regionalism is golden as long as Virginia Beach stays in her lane and agrees with whatever Norfolk proposes.

 

I don't recall anyone here stating that the patriotic festival left for the same reason as SITW. Can you point to the post that you're referring to?

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1 hour ago, mintscraft56 said:

My goodness. Seems like Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and Norfolk have fixed their bonds as Chesapeake is having talks with Portsmouth about letting emergency crews cross city lines to help each other in emergency situations, and Norfolk is looking into some type of light rail to greenbrier plan with Chesapeake. But VB and Norfolk....Two of our Major Cities in the area still compete for better and yet VB is seemingly losing its race here with Pharrell even calling it a "toxic energy" and sadly the loss of 3 festivals 1 of witch (The patriotic festival) are moving to Norfolk's Downtown. And if SITW moves there too it will be a massive blow to VB.

Its weird how Norfolk has Better relationships with Newport News thats across the water than its own land neighbor. 

I think them being across the water is the reason for better relations. 

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I was born in Norfolk and grew up in Virginia Beach and fighting between the cities goes back to Virginia Beach's founding in 1963.   Throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s Norfolk was losing its white residents to the new city of Virginia Beach mainly because of school integration.   In Virginia Beach schools integrated later then Norfolk around 1965.  My older sister was part of a group of black students to integrate Bayside Elementary in 1965,   The relationship was further exacerbated by Virginia Beach's reliance on Norfolk for water which I believe continues today.  I hope with the move to Norfolk of the Patriotic festival doesn't further strain the already strained relationship between the two cities.   I hope that both Mayor Dwyer and Mayor Alexander work to share the crowds of people coming to the festival.   For the good of the region all 7 cities and 10 counties need to cooperate and stop battling each other.    

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8 hours ago, varider said:

The last few weeks have put a spotlight on the discussions we’ve been having on this site for years.  This area simply does not function as one region, and that’s difficult to comprehend because literally every other relevant part of the country has an alpha city and some sort of regional effort and level of cooperation.

2012-13 showed so much promise for the region. Even though it was a leverage deal, the Kings rumor sparked arena discussion, and we thought we'd finally see a new venue. VB voted yes to studying a light rail extension. Looked like Norfolk and VB would come to an agreement on the outlet mall. Meanwhile, Norfolk started its downtown expansion with The Main, NEON, food trucks. I remember telling people this wasn't the same ol' Hampton Roads. We'd turned a corner.

Then 2015-16 came along and all that potential progress went down the drain. No arena, no light rail, the outlet mall got delayed. I really thought we were on our way to becoming the next Charlotte or Raleigh. I know there's a lot to be proud of, but there's a lot of disappointment too. I'm now at the "I'll believe it when I see it" stage.

Might be biased because 2012-14 was a really fun time for me.

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31 minutes ago, BFG said:

2012-13 showed so much promise for the region. Even though it was a leverage deal, the Kings rumor sparked arena discussion, and we thought we'd finally see a new venue. VB voted yes to studying a light rail extension. Looked like Norfolk and VB would come to an agreement on the outlet mall. Meanwhile, Norfolk started its downtown expansion with The Main, NEON, food trucks. I remember telling people this wasn't the same ol' Hampton Roads. We'd turned a corner.

Then 2015-16 came along and all that potential progress went down the drain. No arena, no light rail, the outlet mall got delayed. I really thought we were on our way to becoming the next Charlotte or Raleigh. I know there's a lot to be proud of, but there's a lot of disappointment too. I'm now at the "I'll believe it when I see it" stage.

Might be biased because 2012-14 was a really fun time for me.

If what we are seeing in Norfolk right now is the start of a new Downtown Era then I hope we do see the future of Charlotte or Raleigh. 

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On 10/18/2021 at 4:54 AM, Si7i said:

We don’t know anything, I was advocating for the city of VB to use tact. VB leadership it’s self made it political in only caring about the financial gain and not being in anyway remorseful, even if the police are in the 100 percent right at what point is it acceptable to not show sympathy or support for a lost life. Why does it become and issue of his cousin doing the wrong thing at the wrong time so he should have died? I don’t see it as a left or right issue but the city failing to see growth opportunities and squandering them on the wrong discussions no leadership in this area ever looks at the bigger picture. I hope Norfolk gets the festival not because I hate VB but because this area needs something it’s missing an identity and leadership.
 

see my post above. 

What was the city supposed to do? A criminal was shot while committing a crime.  Did he deserve to get shot, no. Do we want cops being judges and executioners, of course not.
 

It’s tragedy , but I don’t know what you expected of the city exactly? 

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On 10/16/2021 at 11:38 PM, vdogg said:

Well that's... interesting... Don't know how to read that one, no idea the reasons behind this move. It's certainly a surprise as there were no known issues ongoing and VB has a large military presence. It was a popular festival, though admittedly not my particular cup of tea, it definitely drew crowds.

 

On 10/19/2021 at 6:30 AM, vdogg said:

I don't recall anyone here stating that the patriotic festival left for the same reason as SITW. Can you point to the post that you're referring to?

Since you asked:  Were you, Vdogg, thinking that is what had happened? Were you even considering that possibility for a milli-second?  I wasn't.  Look at your reaction post (above).  "....that's...interesting.  Don't know how to read that one...."  Why the punctuated circumspection and pause?  What was running through your mind, if you don't mind my asking?  Of course you were careful not to overtly state that which you might have been thinking. I mean, who wants to have egg on their face, right? Yo know, plausible deniability and all that jazz.  Careful, controlled and smart.

And who could blame you for going there anyway (if you did so), one might say? After all, the zeitgeist was going there! Hard. Just take a look at the Facebook activity from that night. Crazy, rampant speculation and downright assertion of fact that the "Pharrell Effect" had bitten VB in the arse.  And as I said, there was a GIF with his likeness complete with a snarky caption intended to intimate his moral superiority and economic power over poor, lowly, wayward VB.  Surely some of you must have seen it.  Did you get a rise or a chuckle?  

Oh, the schadenfreude. Yuck. That was the worst part of it all.   

So fast forward a day or two when we learn what I had known all along; namely,  that those "allegations" were, indeed, FALSE.  Where were all the Mea culpas

AS IF. 

QUERY:

How many of you HERE were thinking that perhaps the "Pharrell Effect" had something to do with the Patriotic Festival leaving Virginia Beach and moving to Norfolk?  If so, how many of you HERE were even moderately pleased by that possibility?    

 

CHALLENGE:

If anyone HERE feels that VB is essentially a city full of and/or controlled by racist, rich white folks who have continually stymied regionalism in HR over the decades, they should kindly just say so.  NOW. 

If anyone HERE feels that VB is a dull, inauthentic suburban wasteland with an intractable identity crisis, they should kindly just say so.   NOW. 

 

Now to those of you who answered "yes," please  stop posting all of your disdain for VB.  Disdain that is sometimes thinly wrapped in the guise of meta analysis, but mostly just put out there plainly on the interwebs for all of Urbanplanet to see.

Oh yes, I said it. Disdain. Pure and unadulterated disdain. For over the past couple of years or so, and I can cite you chapter and verse, this Forum has been littered with dozens of posts replete with judgment or condemnation or negativity or hostility or envy relative to the City of Virginia Beach, her people and/or her leadership.  You know it, and I know it.  Own it, won't you?

Indeed, not only has the membership of this forum--generally and historically--been deferential toward and exhibited a preference for Norfolk relative to all of the other 6 cities, it has simultaneously been biased against Virginia Beach.  And sometimes pointedly and vocally so...for a myriad alleged reasons relative to VB's purported past and present transgressions.  These transgressions seem to include the very fact that VB even exists, is prosperous and flourishing! This phenomenon has become so commonplace that even you, Vdogg, have had to  gently "admonish" or play devil's advocate with a member here of late with respect to their having violated the spirit of the concept of regionalism in their casting of aspersions on VB, their celebration of VB's failure and/or their gripes about VB's successes in some warped, fantasy zero-sum game world.  Heck, I tried that a couple of years ago, to no avail...and to crickets.  Deafening.

The irony of all this is that Virginia Beach is unbothered LOL.  VB is still the undisputed leader of HR in so many ways. Her coffers are full.  Her economy is growing.  Her schools reign supreme.  Her natural amenities are unrivaled. Her people are generally very content and happy.  The future is bright in VB. 

Let all of her haters eat cake.  

 

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9 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

 

Since you asked:  Were you, Vdogg, thinking that is what had happened? Were you even considering that possibility for a milli-second?  I wasn't.  Look at your reaction post (above).  "....that's...interesting.  Don't know how to read that one...."  Why the punctuated circumspection and pause?  What was running through your mind, if you don't mind my asking?  Of course you were careful not to overtly state that which you might have been thinking. I mean, who wants to have egg on their face, right? Yo know, plausible deniability and all that jazz.  Careful, controlled and smart.

And who could blame you for going there anyway (if you did so), one might say? After all, the zeitgeist was going there! Hard. Just take a look at the Facebook activity from that night. Crazy, rampant speculation and downright assertion of fact that the "Pharrell Effect" had bitten VB in the arse.  And as I said, there was a GIF with his likeness complete with a snarky caption intended to intimate his moral superiority and economic power over poor, lowly, wayward VB.  Surely some of you must have seen it.  Did you get a rise or a chuckle?  

Oh, the schadenfreude. Yuck. That was the worst part of it all.   

So fast forward a day or two when we learn what I had known all along; namely,  that those "allegations" were, indeed, FALSE.  Where were all the Mea culpas

AS IF. 

QUERY:

How many of you HERE were thinking that perhaps the "Pharrell Effect" had something to do with the Patriotic Festival leaving Virginia Beach and moving to Norfolk?  If so, how many of you HERE were even moderately pleased by that possibility?    

 

CHALLENGE:

If anyone HERE feels that VB is essentially a city full of and/or controlled by racist, rich white folks who have continually stymied regionalism in HR over the decades, they should kindly just say so.  NOW. 

If anyone HERE feels that VB is a dull, inauthentic suburban wasteland with an intractable identity crisis, they should kindly just say so.   NOW. 

 

Now to those of you who answered "yes," please  stop posting all of your disdain for VB.  Disdain that is sometimes thinly wrapped in the guise of meta analysis, but mostly just put out there plainly on the interwebs for all of Urbanplanet to see.

Oh yes, I said it. Disdain. Pure and unadulterated disdain. For over the past couple of years or so, and I can cite you chapter and verse, this Forum has been littered with dozens of posts replete with judgment or condemnation or negativity or hostility or envy relative to the City of Virginia Beach, her people and/or her leadership.  You know it, and I know it.  Own it, won't you?

Indeed, not only has the membership of this forum--generally and historically--been deferential toward and exhibited a preference for Norfolk relative to all of the other 6 cities, it has simultaneously been biased against Virginia Beach.  And sometimes pointedly and vocally so...for a myriad alleged reasons relative to VB's purported past and present transgressions.  These transgressions seem to include the very fact that VB even exists, is prosperous and flourishing! This phenomenon has become so commonplace that even you, Vdogg, have had to  gently "admonish" or play devil's advocate with a member here of late with respect to their having violated the spirit of the concept of regionalism in their casting of aspersions on VB, their celebration of VB's failure and/or their gripes about VB's successes in some warped, fantasy zero-sum game world.  Heck, I tried that a couple of years ago, to no avail...and to crickets.  Deafening.

The irony of all this is that Virginia Beach is unbothered LOL.  VB is still the undisputed leader of HR in so many ways. Her coffers are full.  Her economy is growing.  Her schools reign supreme.  Her natural amenities are unrivaled. Her people are generally very content and happy.  The future is bright in VB. 

Let all of her haters eat cake.  

 

Why cant Norfolk lead with VB? You blame them for being one sided but you my friend just told us that out city is basically trash in economy,education, and wealth as if we are shrinking?  How can you blame someone for being one sided when you are clearly acting like the typical person that glorifys that mini California as if the other cities in the area didnt matter. Plus we dont celebrate your failure. We celebrate our success. If you see our success as your failure then you might actually be the one sided one here.     

...Jeez I have heard people say us in Norfolk had a big head on the area....Ig they should check these people from VB

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9 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

If anyone HERE feels that VB is a dull, inauthentic suburban wasteland with an intractable identity crisis, they should kindly just say so.   NOW. 

Also in all respect. While VB is not a waste land of suburbia, I do say they have a identity crisis. On the other hand Norfolk has already established it self as the Urban, and Cultural Center of HR Sharing that name with Portsmouth and NN. 

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Alright lets shake the last of that mini city battle away.   

Anyways Has anyone heard anything about the Gravity 400 being built in Downtown Norfolk? It looks like that they have started construction near the area possibly on a water main or a sewage service pipe for the building.  Seeing constriction in Downtown proper has renewed my interest in it. so im trying to gather details. 

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The question I have about all the cities fighting with each other is how do we as citizens from each different cities in this region change this? Is this region a lost cause for developing into a decent metro area....we do lack a lot compared to metros that are even smaller than ours.  Are we just going to be a military town or will we ever become more than that?

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7 hours ago, Norva757 said:

The question I have about all the cities fighting with each other is how do we as citizens from each different cities in this region change this? Is this region a lost cause for developing into a decent metro area....we do lack a lot compared to metros that are even smaller than ours.  Are we just going to be a military town or will we ever become more than that?

There is never a lost cause for development. Infact Alot of the cities do work together.  Norfolk has good ties with Portsmouth Portsmouth is weaving good ties with  Chesapeake and NN is supporting Hampton and Hampton is Helping with Norfolk. And no one has beef with Suffolk or Williamsburg!  Here is an example of Portsmouth and Chesapeake helping each other -https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/chesapeake/automatic-aid-program-reduce-emergency-response-times-portsmouth-chesapeake/291-b7eb3e03-6274-46d4-8f56-c64389a85f6a  The thing is in all respect that VB likes to do most of its stuff alone . (This is not bashing VB its a big fact) Now im not saying VB is the cause of all trouble but im saying that if we could just open VB to the rest of the cities abit then I feel like the metro area could be helped big time. Norfolk and VB are the main feud in the area and thats fact. 

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