Norfolk Off-Topic

[baobabs727]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:59 PM, Arctic_Tern said:

 

What a stupid take

Haha. Thank you for the non sequitur.    

Yes, because it’s so “stupid” to want safe streets. Sorry, but I’m a tough on crime true believer:  pro victim and vehemently anti-criminal. Unapologetically so.  I do not want to live in a no bail, criminal-coddling dystopia. And neither should you, for your very life and the lives of your friends and loved ones depend on it.

On 9/20/2022 at 6:15 AM, vdogg said:

1) Nightlife comes in all sorts of flavors. It doesn’t only consist of what you approve of.

2) No one is trying to be soft on crime or threaten your family, I don’t even know where you got that from. Law abiding businesses should not be harassed in an attempt to look like you’re solving a problem. We’ve had shootings in broad daylight. Closing times have nothing to do with the situation that we face.

3) The VAST majority of crime occurs outside of downtown Norfolk, that it spills over downtown is a symptom of a far larger problem. Until Norfolk gets a handle on it’s gang issue, Nothing will ever change. Downtown businesses are not responsible for the proliferation of gangs in Norfolk…

1)  My “approval” of your idea of a fun night out is not the issue here. And by the way, I pretty much know your age within a couple years, and you’re not exactly representative of the demographic down there.  Unless, that is, you’re still clinging onto your youth by your fingernails. LOL. No shade. But anyway,  contrary to your insinuation, I don’t have a problem with bars or drinking or having fun. Of course that’s not exactly all that’s happening at or outside of these places, now is it?

Rather bizarrely, you seemed to be holding up these establishments as iconic beacons for the “young professional.” I simply took exception to that rather humorous assertion and urged us all to aim higher. That’s hardly a controversial proposal. 

2) Having said that, it is true that we cannot bury our heads in the sand and fail to acknowledge the obvious:  crowded drinking holes, young/bored men…and the early morning hours do not a Disneyesque combination make.  City Council understands this and is taking action.  

Want  to know what I truly don’t approve of?  Well, let’s start with criminal activity. Violence. Whether that be by a gun or a knife or the fist.  What I don’t approve of is those who, in the name of politics, profit or carrying a torch for some warped, low-brow notion of “cool,” tolerate or otherwise turn a blind eye to rampant thuggery, drugs, assaults, murder.  

3)  The majority of crime may be happening outside of downtown, but downtown is the heart of Norfolk and has been ground zero for Norfolk’s renaissance since the early 80s. Norfolk is also the cultural and financial capital of Hampton Roads, and thus DT far too precious and important for a business-as-usual attitude when it comes to crime.  If downtown dies because people are too afraid to visit, Norfolk pretty much dies.

 

[vdogg]

3 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Haha. Thank you for the non sequitur.    

Yes, because it’s so “stupid” to want safe streets. Sorry, but I’m a tough on crime true believer:  pro victim and vehemently anti-criminal. Unapologetically so.  I do not want to live in a no bail, criminal-coddling dystopia. And neither should you, for your very life and the lives of your friends and loved ones depend on it.

1)  My “approval” of your idea of a fun night out is not the issue here. And by the way, I pretty much know your age within a couple years, and you’re not exactly representative of the demographic down there.  Unless, that is, you’re still clinging onto your youth by your fingernails. LOL. No shade. But anyway,  contrary to your insinuation, I don’t have a problem with bars or drinking or having fun. Of course that’s not exactly all that’s happening at or outside of these places, now is it?

Rather bizarrely, you seemed to be holding up these establishments as iconic beacons for the “young professional.” I simply took exception to that rather humorous assertion and urged us all to aim higher. That’s hardly a controversial proposal. 

2) Having said that, it is true that we cannot bury our heads in the sand and fail to acknowledge the obvious:  crowded drinking holes, young/bored men…and the early morning hours do not a Disneyesque combination make.  City Council understands this and is taking action.  

Want  to know what I truly don’t approve of?  Well, let’s start with criminal activity. Violence. Whether that be by a gun or a knife or the fist.  What I don’t approve of is those who, in the name of politics, profit or carrying a torch for some warped, low-brow notion of “cool,” tolerate or otherwise turn a blind eye to rampant thuggery, drugs, assaults, murder.  

3)  The majority of crime may be happening outside of downtown, but downtown is the heart of Norfolk and has been ground zero for Norfolk’s renaissance since the early 80s. Norfolk is also the cultural and financial capital of Hampton Roads, and thus DT far too precious and important for a business-as-usual attitude when it comes to crime.  If downtown dies because people are too afraid to visit, Norfolk pretty much dies.

 

You can not say something patently insulting then follow that up with "no shade" as though that makes things better. Choosing to still have fun on the occasional night out does not equal "clinging to youth". Some of us choose to not live the rest of our lives as though we have one foot in the grave already, though your mileage may vary.

[baobabs727]

Recently, a female friend of mine directed my attention to a rather insipid, pop culture TV reference which I think most of you seem to be, perhaps unwittingly, mirroring or espousing re: this whole nightlife shutdown saga. 

"Be cool. Don't be, like, all uncool."

[BFG]

Must you always talk down to us when you disagree? We all have our opinions on the matter, and while we agree something must be done, throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn’t the answer.

The initial problem was crime, stemming back to the Chicho’s shooting about six months ago. Now all a sudden they’re shutting down Scotty Quix for taxes. Obviously that’s something to keep current, but I have a hard time believing council can’t work out some agreement with SQ.  My issue is Norfolk is all over the place right now, and is coming across as a bully to overcompensate. They already don’t have a great reputation of working with businesses, then they pull this. 

[brikkman]

16 hours ago, BFG said:

Must you always talk down to us when you disagree? We all have our opinions on the matter, and while we agree something must be done, throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn’t the answer.

The initial problem was crime, stemming back to the Chicho’s shooting about six months ago. Now all a sudden they’re shutting down Scotty Quix for taxes. Obviously that’s something to keep current, but I have a hard time believing council can’t work out some agreement with SQ.  My issue is Norfolk is all over the place right now, and is coming across as a bully to overcompensate. They already don’t have a great reputation of working with businesses, then they pull this. 

The tone of the city manager was shocking in the few articles I have read. "businesses must understand it is a privilege to operate in DT..." or some version of that. Last I checked, it was still open spaces on granby street and adjacent. I mean don't' get me wrong, it isn't a bust, but I also don't get the feeling business are jumping over each other to get a space in DT.  They would be smart to understand this isn't the 80s and prior where Norfolk was the only game in town.

With that being said, there is absolutely a few things that can be done. When I was home a few weeks ago, there was an apparent convention of some type, like a comic-con type of vibe going on. We road down the entire stretch of granby from main to princess-anne road, not one police cop, only a remote camera station.  That isn't to say some police presence wasn't in tow, but hey, if that is the attitude of being prepared, wellllll no chance police would be close to the most recent incidents. We've said this before and it remains true, we need some outside blood on the council, period. Our home grown folks are just not cutting it, their hearts are too much in it to deal with difficult issues and situations.

I know i'm different, but the city manager is not good for this issue..

 

[baobabs727]

On 10/1/2022 at 11:04 PM, BFG said:

Must you always talk down to us when you disagree? We all have our opinions on the matter, and while we agree something must be done, throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn’t the answer.

The initial problem was crime, stemming back to the Chicho’s shooting about six months ago. Now all a sudden they’re shutting down Scotty Quix for taxes. Obviously that’s something to keep current, but I have a hard time believing council can’t work out some agreement with SQ.  My issue is Norfolk is all over the place right now, and is coming across as a bully to overcompensate. They already don’t have a great reputation of working with businesses, then they pull this. 

Check your DMs. There is a time... and place... for everything.  Suffice it to say I'm not here trying to win any popularity contests. I'll still be here when most of you are gone. And one day I'll be back in Norfolk as a resident,  business owner and landlord for another 20 years -- while most of you were never there. 

[Arctic_Tern]

21 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

Check your DMs. There is a time... and place... for everything.  Suffice it to say I'm not here trying to win any popularity contests. I'll still be here when most of you are gone. And one day I'll be back in Norfolk as a resident,  business owner and landlord for another 20 years -- while most of you were never there. 

Lol trying to hide in the DMs. 

[baobabs727]

3 hours ago, Arctic_Tern said:

Lol trying to hide in the DMs. 

LMFAO.  Not.

[mintscraft56]

Dang, things got heated again. Everything from how to do crime control all the way to who has lived in Norfolk and who is just an outside opinion.  Then it evolved into a throw of insults from both sides. 

I feel like this is what it is like to be figuring things out within the city council itself. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by mintscraft56

[BFG]

I addressed Baobab's PM, and while I don't think we need to hash out that conversation here, I will say we're all adults (or in mintscraft's case, very close) with at least one common goal: seeing Norfolk and the 757 get to the next level where it belongs, and frankly should've been 40 years ago. Sometimes the frustrations come to a boiling point, but I think we mostly agree on more things than not.

Whether it's more jobs, a pro sports team, lower crime rates, etc., I think we're all passionate about our beliefs, and it doesn't help that the city appears headed backwards instead of the path it was taking over the last decade.

[mintscraft56]

15 hours ago, BFG said:

I addressed Baobab's PM, and while I don't think we need to hash out that conversation here, I will say we're all adults (or in mintscraft's case, very close) with at least one common goal: seeing Norfolk and the 757 get to the next level where it belongs, and frankly should've been 40 years ago. Sometimes the frustrations come to a boiling point, but I think we mostly agree on more things than not.

Whether it's more jobs, a pro sports team, lower crime rates, etc., I think we're all passionate about our beliefs, and it doesn't help that the city appears headed backwards instead of the path it was taking over the last decade.

Well said, its just tough to see the city in this state. This has happened before though, maybe its just a moment in time like all the other frustrations we have had in the past few years. Somthing bad happens, but then we get somthing good for the city, or even great for it. Lets just hope this is a single moment and not the dawn of a darker era for Norfolk. 

Maybe we dont give our city enough credit in this too. 

[BFG]

Everything moves in cycles. Downtown had a crime issue in the late-2000s/early-2010s with shootings at Granby Theater, Waterside, the parking garage across from Waterside, and even where the Slover is now. There were concerns and then they got their act together. Then they had some of the best years I’ve seen in my lifetime (almost 40 years).

Norfolk needs to address its police shortage more than anything. More patrols on the streets is a start, but shutting down everything Prohibition-style is cutting off your nose to spite your face, and could deter future businesses. NY, Chicago, L.A. and every city bigger than Norfolk is going through it right now, and I’m pretty sure they’re not using their councils as a bully pulpit. 

[mintscraft56]

Small news, but Google Maps finally, after 3-4 years updated their visual map of Downtown Norfolk. Its not much but its nice to see whats changed, or how Downtown looks on camera. 

[mintscraft56]

Norfolk Police Department is down 255 officers from normal/minimum officer capacity. Which, not sure about you guys, is a MASSIVE problem as crime across the city (especially in or around Downtown) grows.

Then of course we have the whole City vs restaurant/business owner  deal which sprouted from the crime. 

I dont have any idea how we could even achieve getting more officers. 

https://www.police1.com/police-recruiting/articles/down-255-officers-va-pd-ups-the-ante-on-recruiting-efforts-with-new-incentive-programs-Z4Cx2hXJoU1TjgVf/

[mintscraft56]

Norfolk has done it ladies and gentlemen....... The city council has had a majority vote to completely revoke California Burrito's permit. 

This is the 4th Major downtown night club that was know for its.....night club, to be shut down. 

The owners desperately tried to propose new open/close times, sale times, and even business change but the City council decided to revoke it anyways. 

Citizens across the city have spoken negatively about this. The Council has disregarded our word for their own. 

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/norfolk/norfolk-city-council-california-burrito-nightclub/291-1ef0e679-7873-4bc1-be07-28a58001cab9

[vdogg]

Didn't expect them to do anything else. Fairly popular latin dance night. I've been there, it was a nice place. Oh well, at least now there will be no more crime in Norfolk...

[baobabs727]

Owner is extremely rude and completely resistant to constructive feedback. Would regularly attack online reviewers . The food sucks and is overhyped online to the point you suspect collusion.  Anyone who has ever traveled to or lived in Southern California knows what a good “California” burrito tastes like.  Heh well his ain’t it!  As to the shutdown, as you may have read this place repeatedly exceeded the permissible occupancy (maximum)—sometimes more than doubling it. That’s a serious fire code violation. Rules are rules. Safety first. 

[mintscraft56]

11 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Owner is extremely rude and completely resistant to constructive feedback. Would regularly attack online reviewers . The food sucks and is overhyped online to the point you suspect collusion.  Anyone who has ever traveled to or lived in Southern California knows what a good “California” burrito tastes like.  Heh well his ain’t it!  As to the shutdown, as you may have read this place repeatedly exceeded the permissible occupancy (maximum)—sometimes more than doubling it. That’s a serious fire code violation. Rules are rules. Safety first. 

Although we all can agree with safety first, the council should have taken the chance to take his permit when those incidents happened.....not just using them as an excuse when everyone can clearly see that they are attacking night clubs across downtown in the name of "crime solving". 

They let those things slide back when it happened, which, if they really cared they would have gotten him in trouble before they started reigning with an iron first over downtown. 
Its more of an excuse to use those things just to take the permit. 

[baobabs727]

14 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Although we all can agree with safety first, the council should have taken the chance to take his permit when those incidents happened.....not just using them as an excuse when everyone can clearly see that they are attacking night clubs across downtown in the name of "crime solving". 

They let those things slide back when it happened, which, if they really cared they would have gotten him in trouble before they started reigning with an iron first over downtown. 
Its more of an excuse to use those things just to take the permit. 

Better late than never. 

[vdogg]

https://www.wavy.com/news/legacy-lounge-employees-start-petition-after-norfolk-city-council-shuts-down-nightclub/

"NORFOLK, Va. (WAVY) — Airey Jordan has worked at Legacy Lounge since it opened. She said city council’s decision to revoke the club’s conditional use permit had put her in financial hardship.

 

“I am a windowed mother of three, so bartending allowed me the flexibility to not only be a mother first, but to also have funds,” she said.

 

Now, bills are stacking up."

[BFG]

I swear the Pilot always has to create controversy when it comes to progress in this area. Now they’re questioning the musical acts coming to the Mighty Dream Forum. This is about more than just live music. 

https://www.pilotonline.com/entertainment/festivals/vp-nw-mighty-dream-forum-20221015-yst6vh43gzahbgpgsh67dyljya-story.html

[BFG]

More guests announced; they include comedian Hannibal Burress and Formula 1 racer Lewis Hamilton.

Quote

Festival organizers also announced several more music acts for the event, including hip hop artist Saba, DJ Joe Kay and Canadian electronic music producer Kaytranada. A concert by bass guitarist Thundercat previously was announced.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-mighty-dream-lineup-20221020-2kgra6xgvrhzfjrnjfawyvvkji-story.html

Edited October 21, 2022 by BFG

[baobabs727]

Wait.  Are those NERD fangirls I see kneeling at the altar?  

Nope, just a few elected bureaucrats trying to appear relevant....

Ahem.  A counterpoint is most definitely in order. 

Calling BS on the Elephant's baby:

Nebulous, nonsensical, exclusionary natter. 

Noise.

Signifying?

Nada.

Now hold hands and feel empowered. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by baobabs727

[mintscraft56]

baobabs727, Im a little confused on what your trying to point out.

[mintscraft56]

A few months ago, I tried to point out how bad our crime rate is among other US cities. I was put down over it. 

I come back with reinforced arguments on it.  13 news, and other news outlets, which are very trusted sources in our area have stated and provided proof that our city is infact experiencing one of the worst crime rate hikes in the nation. Out of 50 Major US cities (Yes, they considered us a major city for once) Norfolk ranked 8th for the worst rising crime rates across the United States. 

This is a real big problem, how do we recover? .....if thats even possible.

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/crime/norfolks-rising-homicide-rate-nations-8th-worst/291-756add9b-8775-4cdc-aa26-07b20d8c6649

Edited October 25, 2022 by mintscraft56