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vdogg

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16 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

Every time I am down there and drive through Ocean View there might be a handful of cars in the parking lot.  

I'm not about to get in an argument with someone who doesn't live here full time. The lots get a lot of use in the summer and it's nice to see them expanding the amount of free parking as they allow more and more new development in OV. VB could learn a lesson or two there.
 

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13 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

I'm not about to get in an argument with someone who doesn't live here full time. The lots get a lot of use in the summer and it's nice to see them expanding the amount of free parking as they allow more and more new development in OV. VB could learn a lesson or two there.
 

Oooh. Feisty. Ha ha. I have no dog in this fight, but I will tell you that Norfolk needs to sit down and shut up when it comes to trumpeting “free parking!” Because there’s nothing free about Norfolk’s parking. Virginia Beach Town Center offers FREE parking to the tune of thousands of spaces—on-street, surface lot and garage! And there  is also FREE on-street parking at the Oceanfront from  November 1st to March 31st AND FREE surface lot parking at all  VB municipal parking lots from November 1st to March 31st.       Ask anyone in Hampton Roads about which locale they most associate with paid parking, and they will surely reply “(downtown) Norfolk.”  

So what is it that Virginia Beach can learn from Norfolk? Is downtown parking free right now? Is MacArthur Center’s garage free right now? Or ever?…à la VBTC?

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11 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Oooh. Feisty. Ha ha. I have no dog in this fight, but I will tell you that Norfolk needs to sit down and shut up when it comes to trumpeting “free parking!” Because there’s nothing free about Norfolk’s parking. Virginia Beach Town Center offers FREE parking to the tune of thousands of spaces—on-street, surface lot and garage! And there  is also FREE on-street parking at the Oceanfront from  November 1st to March 31st AND FREE surface lot parking at all  VB municipal parking lots from November 1st to March 31st.       Ask anyone in Hampton Roads about which locale they most associate with paid parking, and they will surely reply “(downtown) Norfolk.”  

So what is it that Virginia Beach can learn from Norfolk? Is downtown parking free right now? Is MacArthur Center’s garage free right now? Or ever?…à la VBTC?

Norfolk has free beach parking in big surface lots year-round, Virginia Beach does not. That's what they can learn from Norfolk.  Changing the subject to DT NFK and TC is weird considering it was clearly a discussion about beach parking. By the way, MacArthur offers free parking during the holidays and you can get your parking validated inside the mall for free parking year-round.

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1 hour ago, Arctic_Tern said:

Well duh you have to pay for parking in Downtown Norfolk. When the land value of a parking space exceeds the value that space brings intrinsically then you have to do something to help make up the difference. Virginia Beach doesn't have this problem, it seems.

 

 

Nonsensical and factually inaccurate.  FYI, I was responding to a post which claimed that VB could learn from Norfolk about the availability of free parking.  Demonstrably absurd.   

 

33 minutes ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Norfolk has free beach parking in big surface lots year-round, Virginia Beach does not. That's what they can learn from Norfolk.  Changing the subject to DT NFK and TC is weird considering it was clearly a discussion about beach parking. By the way, MacArthur offers free parking during the holidays and you can get your parking validated inside the mall for free parking year-round.

So you have an issue with my including Downtown in a Norfolk vs VB parking discussion? LOL!  A comparison/discussion which YOU started, btw.  Is not Downtown part and parcel of Norfolk?  Fair game then.  VBTC, VB's equivalent to Norfolk's Downtown,  has YEAR-ROUND free parking (!), unlike DT Norfolk and unlike MacArthur Center, etc.  

Fact is, Norfolk, not Virginia Beach, is recognized throughout the known universe as the municipality in HR most likely to gouge $$$ you and/or ticket/fine you for parking on a public street and in a public lot, garage, etc. NOT VB.   

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3 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

 

Nonsensical and factually inaccurate.  FYI, I was responding to a post which claimed that VB could learn from Norfolk about the availability of free parking.  Demonstrably absurd.   

 

So you have an issue with my including Downtown in a Norfolk vs VB parking discussion? LOL!  A comparison/discussion which YOU started, btw.  Is not Downtown part and parcel of Norfolk?  Fair game then.  VBTC, VB's equivalent to Norfolk's Downtown,  has YEAR-ROUND free parking (!), unlike DT Norfolk and unlike MacArthur Center, etc.  

Fact is, Norfolk, not Virginia Beach, is recognized throughout the known universe as the municipality in HR most likely to gouge $$$ you and/or ticket/fine you for parking on a public street and in a public lot, garage, etc. NOT VB.   

The discussion started with the news that Norfolk is creating more parking in OV for BEACH parking which is a positive development as the area continues to develop a lot and Norfolk has committed to maintaining and improving access to the beach for ALL residents and visitors.

And yes, DT Norfolk costs to park in and they could learn a thing or two from VB TC about offering more free options to visitors to make it more business friendly. Can you admit the same about parking at the oceanfront?  I bet I know the answer given how this interaction started and has continued on.

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Already did so, Birdman.

-

I was honored to dine with the Mayor of Norfolk last night. In Virginia Beach of all places …at a Great Neck-area restaurant.

Let that soak in for a moment….

I’ll wait. 

Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I was not actually seated  at his table. And we didn’t speak. LOL. Which of course means that I didn’t get to have another tête-à-tête with him about MacArthur Center, Nordstrom, Waterside, etc.  Drat! Surely he was devastated. I know I was.  LOL. Mind you, our last conversation went well…at least at first, but then after I casually made mention of a past promise/statement or two re: DT retail, well, the banter ended rather abruptly. Mayor Alexander grimaced slightly then mumbled something about his schedule, politely shaking my hand once again, and then heading for the exits.  Apparently, politicians don’t like their past words or actions being thrown in their face when things didn’t end up going their way.  Oh and believe you me, it wasn’t my delivery. I handled him with near-whispers and velvet gloves .

Anyway, back to last night.  I hadn’t seen him in person in maybe three years.  He’s looking rather fit these days!  ‘Course  I would imagine that all that embalming fluid would take anyone’s appetite away!  

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On 12/1/2022 at 7:58 AM, BeagleAccountant said:

I'm not about to get in an argument with someone who doesn't live here full time. The lots get a lot of use in the summer and it's nice to see them expanding the amount of free parking as they allow more and more new development in OV. VB could learn a lesson or two there.
 

Not trying to argue with you.  I've been on this forum since 2005 and the complaint I hear over and over again is Norfolk loves knocking down buildings.  Like I have said I have been down there in the Summer months and observed that there are a lot of open spots at Ocean View.  I really think a better use of the land is there.  I would rather have a park with a small restaurant to replace Greenies then yet another Norfolk parking lot.   

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7 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

Not trying to argue with you.  I've been on this forum since 2005 and the complaint I hear over and over again is Norfolk loves knocking down buildings.  Like I have said I have been down there in the Summer months and observed that there are a lot of open spots at Ocean View.  I really think a better use of the land is there.  I would rather have a park with a small restaurant to replace Greenies then yet another Norfolk parking lot.   

Well, you know, this is the same City Council that wants to bulldoze historic Maury High School, sell all of the city-owned historic houses in Freemason and, yes, tear down this parcel.

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16 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Well, you know, this is the same City Council that wants to bulldoze historic Maury High School, sell all of the city-owned historic houses in Freemason and, yes, tear down this parcel.

That is very disappointing.  It seems that Norfolk still has the mentality that since the building is old its better to tear it down and hope to replace it with something.   

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On 12/6/2022 at 9:10 AM, EJ_LEWIS said:

Not trying to argue with you.  I've been on this forum since 2005 and the complaint I hear over and over again is Norfolk loves knocking down buildings.  Like I have said I have been down there in the Summer months and observed that there are a lot of open spots at Ocean View.  I really think a better use of the land is there.  I would rather have a park with a small restaurant to replace Greenies then yet another Norfolk parking lot.   

The city surveyed residents and they said they wanted more beach parking so the public disagrees with your observations. 

As for the park and small restaurant, they did say that was the plan for the Greenies site. So perhaps adding this lot to the Greenies lot makes that more enticing for investors.

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1 hour ago, BeagleAccountant said:

The city surveyed residents and they said they wanted more beach parking so the public disagrees with your observations. 

As for the park and small restaurant, they did say that was the plan for the Greenies site. So perhaps adding this lot to the Greenies lot makes that more enticing for investors.

OK, OK.  LOL. Good Lord.  It's OV! Who cares, really.  Besides, we've been waiting for the "second coming" of OV from lower Granby all the way to Willoughby--literally for 40 years! It ain't happening. bud.  

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5 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

OK, OK.  LOL. Good Lord.  It's OV! Who cares, really.  Besides, we've been waiting for the "second coming" of OV from lower Granby all the way to Willoughby--literally for 40 years! It ain't happening. bud.  

Cool. Is someone forcing you to read or comment on the topic? Because as far as I know, it's all voluntary. If you don't care, prove it and move to a topic you do care about.

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2 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Cool. Is someone forcing you to read or comment on the topic? Because as far as I know, it's all voluntary. If you don't care, prove it and move to a topic you do care about.

Well, I actually have investment history there in W OV, and with that history comes a vast institutional memory and many data sets.  Yes, plain ol' FACTS==not just hope and hyperbole.  Because, you see, decades ago, my family acquired multiple residential units in W OV in a nice couple of blocks not too far from the old Farm Fresh. The streets were lined with mature trees and boasted a stable mix of the old single family homes, duplex/triplex, plus new condos developed around 1982/3.... My family's property acquisitions began around 1980/81 and continued sporadically through the late 80's. Positions were held until around 2004.  My Dad's best friend eventually acquired 30 residential units in W OV and held them from about 1977-2011.  Mostly condos on the ocean side of Shore Dr.  My Dad was a huge W OV cheerleader, mostly out of financial self-interest as a real estate investor there,  as was my Mom,  but in her case mostly out of pride as a local who had grown up not too far away on Granby St. in the leafy Commodore Park neighborhood (near Northside Elementary).  My grandparents lived in that same neighborhood from 1955-1996 and frequented the various retail and restaurant establishments there in W OV for 40 plus years.  Growing up in the Oceanfront and Great Neck areas of VB, I was able to visit my grandparents on the regular, and so I knew that W OV (Shore Drive @Upper Granby, Chesapeake St/Tidewater Dr, ...up to Bayview Blvd...) area like the back of my hand. I often went with my Dad to clean up, upgrade and paint the units after tenant moveouts, as well as to meet with prospective tenants and view potential new investment properties with agents.  As a precocious only child, my Dad shared everything with me...all of the numbers...including purchase and sales prices (I even helped sell a couple as "FSBOs"), the tax returns and the depreciation calculations, etc. 

Having said that, most if not all of my Dad's constant cheerleading, optimistic yet educated predictions...and informed expectations were never fully realized there in W OV.  Some might say they just plain "didn't come true."  Nor did those (lofty aspirations and glowing predictions) of his investor-friend with those 30 condos.  (Though he made bank.  Yes, indeed.) Nor did those of their other W OV investor-friends.  To hear it from all them back in the 80's,  and Lordy I sure did hear it ALL , LOL, W OV was perpetually...ALWAYS...just on the verge, right on the cusp... of explosive growth, rapid and transformational change and revitalization ...and, of course, huge ROIs $$$$$!!!!  LOL. Well,  in reality, the ROIs turned out to be OK, and I am grossly simplifying the math here, but let's just say that the blended average purchase price in the early to late 80's was  65-70K (cheap!)...and the blended divestment average per unit (realized sales prices) during the very early 2000's into the mid 2000's was somewhere around 165K.  Not bad, but certainly not as high  (i.e.,  year over year compounding appreciation%) as many other neighborhoods in Norfolk and VB.  The predictions of wholesale bulldozing of the rundown beachfront establishments never came to fruition. No new national tenants arrived on the scene.  East Beach did explode,  later, of course, but there wasn't much bleed over to the West. Willoughby looked and still looks much as it did in 1985.

So, you see, this ain't my first rodeo.  I've earned the right to tell you what I told you...precisely because I've been there and done that.  IN W OV! And so, once again, I'm here to tell you that it ain't happening, friend.  Not anytime soon anyway.  

 

P.S....before you say, "well, obviously he didn't hang on long enough," I'd say that 18-24 years is a long time...and with his friend 30-35 years...is a very long time. Long enough to know when you've lost the war lol...but still made some honest money along the way.  Appealing to my better angels, I'll refrain from pointing out that you've been here in UP land for around 5 minutes compared to my nearly 18 years...and that you may not even be from HR...who knows...nor is it very likely-- at all --that you have zero to 1/10th of the real world experience that I have had here in investment real estate and in business ....anywhere in VB or NFK, and frankly, that  I am freaking sick and damned tired of the recent onslaught of young-ish know-nothings with scant and recently acquired on-the-job training and/or book knowledge, arrogantly spouting foolish notions based  not in fact but in hope and prayers.... trying to tell the few, remaining, established, connected posters with the actual possession of a long history of real world experience.... what the Hell is what around here.  It's laughable, frankly. You know less than nothing.  Beat it. Scram. Bye. 

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Sigh... I typically let these conversations run on because they tend to burn themselves out after about a day, but let me just drop a timely reminder to please be respectful in our interactions and the way in which we address each other. Spirited debate is ok, but I'd remind all sides to refrain from personal attacks. Carry on.

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8 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Well, I actually have investment history there in W OV, and with that history comes a vast institutional memory and many data sets.  Yes, plain ol' FACTS==not just hope and hyperbole.  Because, you see, decades ago, my family acquired multiple residential units in W OV in a nice couple of blocks not too far from the old Farm Fresh. The streets were lined with mature trees and boasted a stable mix of the old single family homes, duplex/triplex, plus new condos developed around 1982/3.... My family's property acquisitions began around 1980/81 and continued sporadically through the late 80's. Positions were held until around 2004.  My Dad's best friend eventually acquired 30 residential units in W OV and held them from about 1977-2011.  Mostly condos on the ocean side of Shore Dr.  My Dad was a huge W OV cheerleader, mostly out of financial self-interest as a real estate investor there,  as was my Mom,  but in her case mostly out of pride as a local who had grown up not too far away on Granby St. in the leafy Commodore Park neighborhood (near Northside Elementary).  My grandparents lived in that same neighborhood from 1955-1996 and frequented the various retail and restaurant establishments there in W OV for 40 plus years.  Growing up in the Oceanfront and Great Neck areas of VB, I was able to visit my grandparents on the regular, and so I knew that W OV (Shore Drive @Upper Granby, Chesapeake St/Tidewater Dr, ...up to Bayview Blvd...) area like the back of my hand. I often went with my Dad to clean up, upgrade and paint the units after tenant moveouts, as well as to meet with prospective tenants and view potential new investment properties with agents.  As a precocious only child, my Dad shared everything with me...all of the numbers...including purchase and sales prices (I even helped sell a couple as "FSBOs"), the tax returns and the depreciation calculations, etc. 

Having said that, most if not all of my Dad's constant cheerleading, optimistic yet educated predictions...and informed expectations were never fully realized there in W OV.  Some might say they just plain "didn't come true."  Nor did those (lofty aspirations and glowing predictions) of his investor-friend with those 30 condos.  (Though he made bank.  Yes, indeed.) Nor did those of their other W OV investor-friends.  To hear it from all them back in the 80's,  and Lordy I sure did hear it ALL , LOL, W OV was perpetually...ALWAYS...just on the verge, right on the cusp... of explosive growth, rapid and transformational change and revitalization ...and, of course, huge ROIs $$$$$!!!!  LOL. Well,  in reality, the ROIs turned out to be OK, and I am grossly simplifying the math here, but let's just say that the blended average purchase price in the early to late 80's was  65-70K (cheap!)...and the blended divestment average per unit (realized sales prices) during the very early 2000's into the mid 2000's was somewhere around 165K.  Not bad, but certainly not as high  (i.e.,  year over year compounding appreciation%) as many other neighborhoods in Norfolk and VB.  The predictions of wholesale bulldozing of the rundown beachfront establishments never came to fruition. No new national tenants arrived on the scene.  East Beach did explode,  later, of course, but there wasn't much bleed over to the West. Willoughby looked and still looks much as it did in 1985.

So, you see, this ain't my first rodeo.  I've earned the right to tell you what I told you...precisely because I've been there and done that.  IN W OV! And so, once again, I'm here to tell you that it ain't happening, friend.  Not anytime soon anyway.  

 

P.S....before you say, "well, obviously he didn't hang on long enough," I'd say that 18-24 years is a long time...and with his friend 30-35 years...is a very long time. Long enough to know when you've lost the war lol...but still made some honest money along the way.  Appealing to my better angels, I'll refrain from pointing out that you've been here in UP land for around 5 minutes compared to my nearly 18 years...and that you may not even be from HR...who knows...nor is it very likely-- at all --that you have zero to 1/10th of the real world experience that I have had here in investment real estate and in business ....anywhere in VB or NFK, and frankly, that  I am freaking sick and damned tired of the recent onslaught of young-ish know-nothings with scant and recently acquired on-the-job training and/or book knowledge, arrogantly spouting foolish notions based  not in fact but in hope and prayers.... trying to tell the few, remaining, established, connected posters with the actual possession of a long history of real world experience.... what the Hell is what around here.  It's laughable, frankly. You know less than nothing.  Beat it. Scram. Bye. 

I'm very confused by you and this entire  conversation. You say you like VB and that Norfolk should learn a thing or 2 from them because they have free parking .... in TC not at the beach. Then you go on to criticize criticize Norfolk, or more precisely the person that's glad Norfolk is making more free parking? What's the deal here? 

 

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One more reason, among many, that he's my very favorite Mayor.  Heh. 

Mayor's alleged,  unclaimed rapper son bailed out of bad land deal by the Norfolk taxpayers.  Yes. You heard that right. You can't make this @#P$ up.  Glad my money's no longer in City coffers.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/norfolk-city-council-bailed-mayor-181900102.html#:~:text=Norfolk City Council bailed Mayor,a land deal gone bad

 

 

 

 

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On 12/8/2022 at 2:38 AM, Urbanlooker said:

I'm very confused by you and this entire  conversation. You say you like VB and that Norfolk should learn a thing or 2 from them because they have free parking .... in TC not at the beach. Then you go on to criticize criticize Norfolk, or more precisely the person that's glad Norfolk is making more free parking? What's the deal here? 

 

If you'd kindly read vdogg's directive, you'd see that we've been asked to move on.  I, for one, am pleased to do so.

Having said that,  I don't follow you, and I don't have the time to explain what "the deal" was all about.   Besides, I fear that offering a reply to you now would only encourage others to make additional commentary...which would, in turn, most definitely run counter to our moderator's direction.  Happy Holidays!

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Looks like Norfolk is doing everything they can to dismantle night life Downtown.  Is there no middle ground when it comes to licensing establishments? Maybe a probation period or dialogue to get the establishment into compliance.  Sorry this is insane governing.  I would think twice if I was a business owner to open up a club or restaurant Downtown. 

 https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-caior-nightclub-permit-denied-20221214-pdlorbzvobdixeipnfgcjeiyse-story.html

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On 12/15/2022 at 9:36 AM, EJ_LEWIS said:

Looks like Norfolk is doing everything they can to dismantle night life Downtown.  Is there no middle ground when it comes to licensing establishments? Maybe a probation period or dialogue to get the establishment into compliance.  Sorry this is insane governing.  I would think twice if I was a business owner to open up a club or restaurant Downtown. 

 https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-caior-nightclub-permit-denied-20221214-pdlorbzvobdixeipnfgcjeiyse-story.html

They already effectively killed it. Went down there on a Saturday night and there was barely a trickle of people on Monticello and Granby was dryer than overcooked chicken. Sad too see it that way. Of course, there were the occasional people strolling around or going into a different restaurant, but not enough people actually going down there to have fun.  

I figure most of them might have gone to Virginia Beach's oceanfront, where it seems their night clubs still exist. 

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