Norfolk Off-Topic

[baobabs727]

3 hours ago, lammius said:

The part of Downtown that Waterside Drive goes through was bulldozed in the 1950s and re-built in the 1960s-90s.  It indeed was developed for another era of trying to make cities look and feel like suburbs.  That era is over, and Waterside Drive should catch up.  

Oh, is that right?  Have you told Kenny,  Courtney and Andria you feel this way?  Did you support activating the street with retail along Waterside @BG's latest neo-urban box? 

[mintscraft56]

I dont wanna pry open on this, however, for a conversation on roads (which is not even the topic of this forum), this is pretty heated.

[baobabs727]

11 minutes ago, Arctic_Tern said:

It's absolutely bonkers to me that you would think that folks that live downtown don't make up a "sizeable" pedestrian user group. Sorry that I would rather make life better in Norfolk for Norfolkians, rather than more convenient for Chesapeake or VB folks. Your rapid fire  absolutely wild responses really feel like they're being made in bad faith to me.

I ACTUALLY LIVED IN FREEMASON/DOWNTOWN NORFOLK AND OWNED RENTAL PROPERTIES THERE FOR 20 YEARS.  I LEFT FOR VB ONLY 2.5 YEARS AGO. I ACTUALLY WALKED THOSE STREETS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS--FROM WATERSIDE TO 21st ST, sideways, diagonally and back again.  IN FACT, DURING MY LAST 5 YEARS OF LIVING IN FREEMASON/DT, MY MAIN MODE OF TRANSPORTATION WAS HUMAN LOCOMOTION!!  ACCORDINGLY, I AM MORE THAN QUALIFIED TO SEND YOU PACKING ON MYRIAD DOWNTOWN SUBJECTS.  At the very least, I think I'm qualified to give my opinion on the matter...YMMV.

Anyway, the pedestrian population down there is NOT all that sizeable... and it has been shrinking with the departure of Office and Retail/Restaurant.

NEWSFLASH:  I DISAGREE WITH SOME FREQUENCY with much of what is routinely said here re: UP in general, ROAD DIETS, STOP LIGHTS, CROSS WALKS, THE GRID, THE COMBUSTION ENGINE, BIKE TRAILS, MALLS, NEW-URBANISM, PRO SPORTS, GOVT REGULATION, FAUX-URBAN APARTMENT BOX ARCHITECTURE,  ...PINEAPPLE ON YOUR PIZZA, ETC.  And that's OK and absolutely fine...by ME anyway lol. Suffice it to say that I think it best if we just agree to disagree.   

BTW..."Bad faith" LOL.  You might want to know what THAT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE/MEANS before you start slinging legalese covered in mud. Oh, and trust me, I do know what true bad faith looks like. My profession informs me in that regard.  My responses seem "wild" to you only b/c I don't happen to agree with the UP-speak/predictable boilerplate emanating from planner types. Sorry not sorry. Diversity (of opinion) makes the world go 'round, right? Or is that no longer a tenant of progressivism. 

30 minutes ago, mintscraft56 said:

I dont wanna pry open on this, however, for a conversation on roads (which is not even the topic of this forum), this is pretty heated.

Nah, not really that heated.  : - )

[mistermetaj]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:40 AM, mintscraft56 said:

I have a idea, reduce 4 lanes into 2 lanes

I don't think you need to reduce Waterside down to 2 lanes. Considering the limited public transit options into Norfolk (no lightrail) and the fact it's the entry off of 264 to enter the city, it would really make arrival inconvenient for anyone outside of Norfolk.

However, there are ways to make it a little slower and more pedestrian friendly (It's really not that bad). Some options:

- Building out the sidewalk by Dominion Tower (BoA now) and add a second cross walk on St Paul across Waterside

- Add a traffic light (make sure it's synchronized appropriately with the rest of the lights on Waterside) and add double crosswalks at Commercial St across Waterside

- Add a second crosswalk on Atlantic st across Waterside

- Add a second crosswalk on Martins Ln across Waterside

- Beautify the median on Waterside with commissioned art, more trees, and flowers (give a strong civic and cultural feel to Norfolk, and if room widen it. Waterside had the cache as the entry point of Norfolk to be a premier avenue, rather than just a thoroughfare 

In terms of Gravity 400, while I don't love these building types, it is excellent landfill, filling another gap in Norfolk streetscape and bringing people back downtown. Norfolk is still recovering from the 60s destruction, and now COVID. This is another wound healed. There are plenty of spots in the city that could use more of this.

[mintscraft56]

Any new news for Norfolk as of yet? Media seems dry and nothing new is about. 

Does anyone know about the status of First Fridays coming back or not?

[mintscraft56]

All that Canadian wildfire smoke making Norfolk smell like a wood fire BBQ. 

(NOT MY VIDEO) I randomly found this. I dont know the true owner. 

Taken this morning.

[BFG]

City Manager Chip Filer might be out as City Manager. It appears council approved a budget last night that includes a severance package. 

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/is-chip-filer-on-the-way-out-as-norfolk-city-manager-severance-approved-by-city-council/

I was very underwhelmed by his tenure, and I don’t think it’s exactly his fault. But it seemed no one was on the same page and the poop hit the fan after the Military Circle debacle. 

[baobabs727]

Not sad to see him go. More heads need to roll.

[mintscraft56]

Hey everyone! 
The News just came up with this on TV and I found the article about it that was posted 2 hours ago. What do you think of Downtown Norfolk? 

This gives us a chance to voice our opinion on its future planning!

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/norfolk/downtown-norfolk-council-public-survey-june-2023/291-79dbdc4e-50f0-4c1b-9438-34656d0aa529

Edited June 16, 2023 by mintscraft56

[BFG]

They must've taken down the survey. All I'm getting is a generic Survey Monkey page.

[mintscraft56]

3 minutes ago, BFG said:

They must've taken down the survey. All I'm getting is a generic Survey Monkey page.

Really? Because im actively answering the survey right as we speak. 

[BFG]

Must’ve just been my computer. It worked on mobile. 

[mintscraft56]

VB steals another major company from Norfolk. 
Steals may be a strong word, but come on now, luring companies to move out of your neighboring city with money? Can you imagine what people would say if Norfolk hung money from a stick to companies like Dollar Tree or Armada Hoffler? 

On the other hand, why was Norfolk not able to keep the company? What did we do wrong now.
https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/20/global-shipping-company-awarded-1-5-million-to-relocate-norfolk-headquarters-to-virginia-beach/

Edited June 20, 2023 by mintscraft56

[BeagleAccountant]

4 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

VB steals another major company from Norfolk. 
Steals may be a strong word, but come on now, luring companies to move out of your neighboring city with money? Can you imagine what people would say if Norfolk hung money from a stick to companies like Dollar Tree or Armada Hoffler? 

On the other hand, why was Norfolk not able to keep the company? What did we do wrong now.
https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/20/global-shipping-company-awarded-1-5-million-to-relocate-norfolk-headquarters-to-virginia-beach/

It’s right there in the headline, they got a nice grant from VB to move. If Norfolk isn’t bringing a competitive offer, the business leaves simple as that.

[vdogg]

4 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

VB steals another major company from Norfolk. 
Steals may be a strong word, but come on now, luring companies to move out of your neighboring city with money? Can you imagine what people would say if Norfolk hung money from a stick to companies like Dollar Tree or Armada Hoffler? 

On the other hand, why was Norfolk not able to keep the company? What did we do wrong now.
https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/20/global-shipping-company-awarded-1-5-million-to-relocate-norfolk-headquarters-to-virginia-beach/

This is obviously not ideal, but if the choice was between moving to Va. Beach or leaving the area altogether, it's better to just keep them local. Never been a big fan of these lateral moves though.

[baobabs727]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:44 PM, mistermetaj said:

I don't think you need to reduce Waterside down to 2 lanes. Considering the limited public transit options into Norfolk (no lightrail) and the fact it's the entry off of 264 to enter the city, it would really make arrival inconvenient for anyone outside of Norfolk.

However, there are ways to make it a little slower and more pedestrian friendly (It's really not that bad). Some options:

- Building out the sidewalk by Dominion Tower (BoA now) and add a second cross walk on St Paul across Waterside

- Add a traffic light (make sure it's synchronized appropriately with the rest of the lights on Waterside) and add double crosswalks at Commercial St across Waterside

- Add a second crosswalk on Atlantic st across Waterside

- Add a second crosswalk on Martins Ln across Waterside

- Beautify the median on Waterside with commissioned art, more trees, and flowers (give a strong civic and cultural feel to Norfolk, and if room widen it. Waterside had the cache as the entry point of Norfolk to be a premier avenue, rather than just a thoroughfare 

In terms of Gravity 400, while I don't love these building types, it is excellent landfill, filling another gap in Norfolk streetscape and bringing people back downtown. Norfolk is still recovering from the 60s destruction, and now COVID. This is another wound healed. There are plenty of spots in the city that could use more of this.

I was just down there DRIVING the other day for the first time in 2 years. Well, they've done away with that insipid snake lane on  Waterside starting at Martin's Ln;  however, they've reduced the lanes along the entire length of Waterside from that point onward and onto Boush all the way to Brambleton to..... ONE, SINGLE LANE.  Now that sounds great, right? In theory, perhaps. But in practice at 2pm on a weekday it took me 3 light cycles to get past Nauticus.  Then I was stopped at the next two lights behind 15-20 cars.  And the kicker was that not a single pedestrian was seen crossing anywhere... and not a single bicycle or scooter was in plain sight. 

Planner fools!

   

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by baobabs727

[BeagleAccountant]

14 hours ago, vdogg said:

This is obviously not ideal, but if the choice was between moving to Va. Beach or leaving the area altogether, it's better to just keep them local. Never been a big fan of these lateral moves though.

Seems like a weird way to spend that grant, right? They already are doing business locally, so most employees wont need to relocate. And they have zero need to find new businesses in the area to deal with since they are already entrenched here. All you're really left with are the taxes the business pays, perhaps more business towards local businesses who serve the employees (gas and food) and the rent they'll pay towards the city. It could take a while for VB to recoup the grant they received.  So it really is hard to find any tangible downstream impact or benefit of awarding this economic development incentive to another local business.

Edited June 21, 2023 by BeagleAccountant

[baobabs727]

They needed a win. Simple as that. They wanted that grant to appear to be determinative of the relocation and score for VB. Alas, it was not.

Edited June 21, 2023 by baobabs727

[EJ_LEWIS]

The Ohio Creek flood mitigation project is complete.  

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/21/uniquely-norfolk-years-long-ohio-creek-watershed-flood-mitigation-project-is-officially-complete/

[BeagleAccountant]

15 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

They needed a win. Simple as that. They wanted that grant to appear to be determinative of the relocation and score for VB. Alas, it was not.

Better off not awarding it at all and stocking up for an actual win.

Edited June 22, 2023 by BeagleAccountant

[varider]

20 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Seems like a weird way to spend that grant, right? They already are doing business locally, so most employees wont need to relocate. And they have zero need to find new businesses in the area to deal with since they are already entrenched here. All you're really left with are the taxes the business pays, perhaps more business towards local businesses who serve the employees (gas and food) and the rent they'll pay towards the city. It could take a while for VB to recoup the grant they received.  So it really is hard to find any tangible downstream impact or benefit of awarding this economic development incentive to another local business.

The grant came from the Commonwealth’s Opportunity Fund, not from VB.  
There is no rent to pay, they purchased the building near Town Center.
Obviously it’s not as exciting as a relocation from outside the region, but it’s still a pretty big deal that they plan to hire 300 more workers, and I think it’s cool that they will be near Town Center and Pembroke Square. If they didn’t get the grant, they might have left the region.

[HRVA]

7 minutes ago, varider said:

The grant came from the Commonwealth’s Opportunity Fund, not from VB.  
There is no rent to pay, they purchased the building near Town Center.
Obviously it’s not as exciting as a relocation from outside the region, but it’s still a pretty big deal that they plan to hire 300 more workers, and I think it’s cool that they will be near Town Center and Pembroke Square. If they didn’t get the grant, they might have left the region.

Virginia Beach had a matching grant as well. So roughly $3 million total when half the jobs are already in the region and the other half would likely of come anyways based on the company’s actions (buying the building 6 months ago). Good to see jobs being created but the grants deserve some scrutiny in this scenario. 

[varider]

Well if we didn’t provide the $$ , someone else might have. Is it worth it to risk losing out on 600 office jobs just to save 1.5M from the development fund?  We scrutinize everything around here. If there were out of state companies beating down the door to relocate here, I would maybe understand the argument, but not when we almost NEVER get good news about office jobs. I couldn’t think of a better use of $1.5M ($3M total) than to have 600 (307 new jobs to be exact) more people working in the vicinity of Town Center. That’s less than $10K per new job. I think it’s nice to reward ZIM for staying loyal and sticking with the decision to relocate from NYC.

[BeagleAccountant]

2 hours ago, varider said:

Well if we didn’t provide the $$ , someone else might have. Is it worth it to risk losing out on 600 office jobs just to save 1.5M from the development fund?  We scrutinize everything around here. If there were out of state companies beating down the door to relocate here, I would maybe understand the argument, but not when we almost NEVER get good news about office jobs. I couldn’t think of a better use of $1.5M ($3M total) than to have 600 (307 new jobs to be exact) more people working in the vicinity of Town Center. That’s less than $10K per new job. I think it’s nice to reward ZIM for staying loyal and sticking with the decision to relocate from NYC.

So if the timeline is right, they were awarded the grant after they purchased the building. Given that, what real risk was there of them leaving the region for a different offer? 

[HRVA]

2 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

So if the timeline is right, they were awarded the grant after they purchased the building. Given that, what real risk was there of them leaving the region for a different offer? 

This is my thinking. They certainly deserve some kind of incentive but I doubt they go elsewhere over $3 million when they already spent $12 million on a building. Sure they could sell it but it would have to be another owner occupant as no investor is going to pay what they did for an empty suburban office building in this market. Don’t fault ZIM for this. It’s on however these grants are calculated.