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7 hours ago, jeffconn said:

I doubt seriously that any tower will go there. Let's be honest here, folks. It's on the wrong side of Brambleton, and no matter how you slice it, it ain't downtown, and never will be downtown. Those 6 lanes of Hell you have to cross to get to downtown will make sure of that.That part of town has its own character, and i think that keeping the station as is is the way to go. There's already 20-30 parking spaces there, some covered. Make some sort of farmer's market or maybe another "business incubator" like they are planning for Selden Arcade. And rent out the restaurant part to some enterprising restaurateur.  

 I do agree that the Greyhound station should be in Harbor Park, perhaps in an expansion of the Amtrak station, maybe even allow the Megabus to stop there too. Three services sharing a common seating area makes sense to me.

This is why the SPQ design was so odd to me. All these years I was personally looking forward to an expansion of DT into SPQ, many to include people on this board looked at an expansion across Brambleton. I'm with you, it will never be DT.

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I would say the NEON district is part of downtown maybe not downtown formally but many see it as such. IMO the city should formally make it so as well as add a couple pedestrian bridges over bridges over brambleton the greyhound station property getting new development couldbe the first. 

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I very much dislike that Greyhound station. It's a run-down building and is one of the first things people see in the arts district. Bleh. I hope they tear it down and turn it into an anything else. I agree that it's a gateway property and as such should present the NEON district in a much better light. What it should be I don't know.

I personally would consider NEON to be a part of "downtown", but I don't think you'll ever see any towers there anytime soon. What will probably happen is when we do see new construction it will be of buildings around 3-5 stories in size. If you haven't been there recently, they've been competing demolition of an old building on the site of a new apartment complex. I think it's been discussed on here before.

 

EDIT: Can't confirm it's the apartments being made, but that's what makes sense given the location and its history.

Edited by Arctic_Tern

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Since the day I was born here, since my parents and grandparents came before me, and since my great-grandparents before them, that is downtown. And it will always be downtown.  I don't care if you call it NEon, FREon or Dionne...Warwick, it's still downtown.

Edited by baobabs727
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I thought downtown was unofficially redistricted to include the NEON and areas near the Chrysler. With all the activity happening over there, it's hard for me not to see it as an extension of DT. To not call it that makes it feel a little disconnected, but six lanes on Brambleton already disconnect things I guess. 

It is prime land, so I hope they use it wisely. 

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You can redistrict things all you want. Besides the six lanes of Hell, think about what is on Brambleton. Scope, the Federal Building, the church with the humongous parking lot, that big park that nobody is supposed to use, the York Building, the Residence Marriott, the Belmont at Freemason. These don't invite people into downtown. They BLOCK off downtown. It's a huge wall, figuratively. That side of Brambleton is where downtown begins, period.

Personally, i love the Greyhound building. It is rather distinctive in a mid 20th Century way. Sure it's run down a bit, but heck, we're rehabbing buildings in downtown proper that were a LOT more rundown (and tilting in a scary way besides). I still think the Greyhound building would be a great asset to the NEON district. A restaurant, a common area with a farmer's market or small businesses, or even move the d'Art gallery there. I would DEFINITELY agree that the lot behind the Greyhound building (and the gated building that's been for sale forever) should be redeveloped. There's not much hope for those spaces, as is.

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1 hour ago, jeffconn said:

You can redistrict things all you want. Besides the six lanes of Hell, think about what is on Brambleton. Scope, the Federal Building, the church with the humongous parking lot, that big park that nobody is supposed to use, the York Building, the Residence Marriott, the Belmont at Freemason. These don't invite people into downtown. They BLOCK off downtown. It's a huge wall, figuratively. That side of Brambleton is where downtown begins, period.

Personally, i love the Greyhound building. It is rather distinctive in a mid 20th Century way. Sure it's run down a bit, but heck, we're rehabbing buildings in downtown proper that were a LOT more rundown (and tilting in a scary way besides). I still think the Greyhound building would be a great asset to the NEON district. A restaurant, a common area with a farmer's market or small businesses, or even move the d'Art gallery there. I would DEFINITELY agree that the lot behind the Greyhound building (and the gated building that's been for sale forever) should be redeveloped. There's not much hope for those spaces, as is.

Wrong. It is downtown, and it always has been so. This is not debatable for those of us who've been around and/or who have family who've been around for eons. And by the way, it didn't need any redistricting to be so labeled. If, in fact, there ever was any such action.

When they made Brambleton that grand Ave., they bisected downtown. But when you bisect something it doesn't make one part or the other part something else. It's still part of the whole. It's still downtown. 

I've crossed Brambleton many times, and I've never felt  particularly intimidated by that process. YMMV.

The Greyhound bus station is a dump. It is so far removed from the highest and best use for that property, it's not even funny. They're going to blow it up  and sell tickets. 

Edited by baobabs727
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So I guess NYC doesn't have any six-lane roads? The NEON area IS downtown. And Norfolk won't put a farmers market there. They will likely sell to the highest bidder and likely a small office building will go there.

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I'm sorry, but that property needs to produce taxes. Especially considering how much tax property the federal courts have taken off the rolls already. They need to put an office tower, hotel, apartments, or something other than a bus station there. Greyhound needs to go. That building was ugly and run down when I moved here 20 years ago. It has not improved with age...

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7 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Wrong. It is downtown, and it always has been so. This is not debatable for those of us who've been around and/or who have family who've been around for eons. And by the way, it didn't need any redistricting to be so labeled. If, in fact, there ever was any such action.

When they made Brambleton that grand Ave., they bisected downtown. But when you bisect something it doesn't make one part or the other part something else. It's still part of the whole. It's still downtown. 

I've crossed Brambleton many times, and I've never felt  particularly intimidated by that process. YMMV.

The Greyhound bus station is a dump. It is so far removed from the highest and best use for that property, it's not even funny. They're going to blow it up  and sell tickets. 

This is correct. There is absolutely no debate. Crossing Brambleton does NOT remove you from downtown. Applying the same six lane road logic, you would be saying that Waterside, the Sheraton, and Dominion Tower are all outside of downtown too. 

I do agree that a pedestrian bridge or two may be beneficial, but it wouldn't magically convert that area from not-downtown to downtown.

Also, the Greyhound station needs to go. It's awful by every definition.

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The inside of the greyhound station use to be nostalgia.

Not sure if any of the eaters are open anymore.. They were when I was a kid and fading fast. Just to provide a little perspective, I think we still had a woolworth on granby st too. yup, 80s baby, 79 to be exact.

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6 hours ago, BFG said:

Yeah there was a Woolworths on Granby, but I can't remember where. 

It was Granby & Freemason Streets. It is now part of TCC. The building is bricked up now, but it used to have plate glass windows wrap around Granby, Freemason and Monticello.

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13 hours ago, NFKjeff said:

I took a photo of the back of the Woolworth's (the Monticello Ave. side) in 1979. People used to sell vegetables there on the sidewalk. Thirty years later I painted the scene. 

20170705_183209.png

Thanks for posting this. I forgot all about the produce being sold over there. In the summer it would be on the Freemason Street side of the building so to remain in the shade.

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Haven't seen these posted. They are preliminary renderings but I am confident they they will not change to much. These are in East beach luxury apartments with ground level retail. It looks pretty dense over there already these will just add to that effect.  http://www.norfolk.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/3352?fileID=7192

large.prettylake-1.PNG.aba27c318c080a2a709d032e9d8707a6.PNGlarge.prettylake-2.PNG.2f8a6db864b485c9990a7269ad0a0f29.PNGlarge.prettylake-3.PNG.5ea2659e75452d592888e91833631677.PNGlarge.prettylake-4.PNG.984458ccb174df5e8e27ed195abc277d.PNGlarge.prettylake-5.PNG.918216da8536a1a9763b887f50071d65.PNGlarge.prettylake-6.PNG.f958f6d5dfb9ee58051e124189a694bf.PNGlarge.prettylake-7.PNG.d8b0e43baea8b0224f6b9a425f9f5fce.PNG

Edited by Si7i
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13 hours ago, BFG said:

A friend of mine posted this article from the Journal and Guide. Talks are underway to raze Young Terrace, Calvert Square and Tidewater Gardens. 

http://thenewjournalandguide.com/2017/07/06/talks-underway-raze-three-norfolk-public-housing-areas/

Riddick comments disturb me. I know he means well but I get the impression he would prefer it to stay the same vs doing anything about Norfolk's growth issue and concentrated poverty. I'm also disturb by many many many people who do not understand how these areas work and their shortcomings. Me being born and raised in probably some of the worst areas of Norfolk (Huntersville, ingleside, Norview), I can tell you exactly how these areas operate and how many things need to change. I feel as though when people talk about these areas, they give their opinion as they drive by and say hey..... Then you have the others who job is only to fight for their piece of the pie regardless of what the greater outcomes maybe.  I'm not suggestion that they should be booted, however, he gives me the impression he would rather it stay the way that it is.  Norfolk maybe growing, but we also have to remember its growing from loosing so much ground (and people) over the decades that date back way before i was born and thought about.  Its not enough to say/think Norfolk is growing when really you are on regaining space. We know why the housing projects are located where they are, many of us know the shortcomings and why it continues to be considered a by place. I personally would like to see DT extended if not only to SPQ or more specifically, tidewater gardens (park as we know it) area.  I think their are plenty of support designs to place all these tenants in the areas without having to build high rise housing developments. They to give Norfolk an opportunity to grow, I think its that more difficult to do when you have the setup you currently do. I've said this many times before, but this also speaks to Norfolk has an identity problem. They truly do not know what they want to be long term.

Just my two cents

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I discussed this with my friend who posted the article last night. I wasn't a fan of Riddick's comments, because he was trying to fan the flames as usual. 

I'm thinking this is going to be more like what the city did with Broad Creek, new homes and townhouses with the public housing residents having a realistic option. Also what they're doing on Bute Street. Having friends who grew up in these places, I hate that people have such a negative view of public housing. I guess that will never change.

At the same time, I'm hoping they go vertical with a few midrise developments to get more people downtown and in the city. Norfolk had more than 300K people up until the early-70s, and I think with the limited space, building up instead of out will be the only way they grow as a city and get back to those numbers.

If this is more like Broad Creek and less like East Ghent from the 70s, I don't see this as being the worst thing in the world. 

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Honestly Riddick says these things to stay relevant to his ward. He makes everything a racial issue and that's what keeps him on the council.

He needs to work on what will get people out of those areas and able to stand on their own 2 feet. When that happens it will be better for all communities in the Norfolk area. That's the problem that people don't see and what has  changed in America. Neighbors actually cared about other neighbors. Its really not like that anymore. Neighbors use to watch out for other neighbors kids when out in the streets.

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Riddick is an absolute idiot if he thinks that using the Snyder lot, some of the most valuable land downtown, for senior housing is a good idea. <_<

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3 hours ago, vdogg said:

Riddick is an absolute idiot if he thinks that using the Snyder lot, some of the most valuable land downtown, for senior housing is a good idea. <_<

I agree. Riddick is an idiot. There is plenty of space in the SPQ to build a facility for seniors. (For those who cannot afford Harbor's Edge)

IMHO, I think that the Sniders lot should be used for a new signature tower. It's accessibility to LRT, the interstates, and the new city courthouse makes the lot HIGHLY desirable.

Now the private sector needs to step up and present a proposed tower to WOW us!

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On 4/7/2017 at 11:06 AM, zeppelin14 said:

Anyone have any contact with Buddy Gadams? (I wonder if he reads this website?) I think it is about time the old QS Building on the corner of Bank and Plume gets restored with ground level shops and apartments on the 2nd and 3rd floors. Perfect location that could bring even more people to MacArthur Square. This building would also be a great place to put a rooftop neon billboard like they have in Roanoke. Something flashy but with a classic look where people will bring their camera's out for....


Example of what they have in Roanoke that would look great on top the QS building in Norfolk:
Roanoke_HC_web.jpg

The old Quality Shop building on Plume Street was sold:

Meet @ 3:19 LLC purchased a 7,986-square-foot office/retail building at 319 E. Plume St. in Norfolk from S & R Investors LLC for $750,000. 

http://www.dailypress.com/business/tidewater/dp-cook-out-little-creek-buys-norfolk-properties-20170802-story.html

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