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Lake Eola Neighbourhood.


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49 minutes ago, Jerry95 said:

I wholeheartedly disagree, parks and open space are absolutely vital to any urban space. Not only do they serve as meeting spaces and community venues they also support exercise and other health functions. Irrespective of whether Lake Eola Park needs to be expanded Downtown Orlando could benefit from more park space, not just empty fenced lots.

In my lifetime, I have used Eola Park much more than I have ever used transit. For that matter, in Atlanta I visited Piedmont and Grant Parks more days than I used MARTA rail (so it’s not just Orlando’s meager transit options), so your comparison is hardly universal.

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3 hours ago, Jerry95 said:

I wholeheartedly disagree, parks and open space are absolutely vital to any urban space. Not only do they serve as meeting spaces and community venues they also support exercise and other health functions. Irrespective of whether Lake Eola Park needs to be expanded Downtown Orlando could benefit from more park space, not just empty fenced lots.

I agree with you but I never said parks weren't vital otherwise I would not have purchased a unit facing Lake Eola myself (and I've been coming to Lake Eola since I was a kid). Please let's include a little context because as I said earlier - Rail & Parks each have their own sense of urgency (and priority) to contend with. When it comes down to the economy & revenue availability I think it's safe to prioritize transit first. Of course someone else will add, "Why can't we have both?" and yes I would love to have it all but the money just isn't there so we have to prioritize and be thoughtful about how we implement things. We don't have enough money at the moment to fully expand the park so in this case a "pocket park" is just an amenity because we already have a full blown park with plenty of green space right next to it. 5000 sq ft isn't going to change the quality of anyone's life right now, however, we're getting rid of a building that is currently utilized by the public (literally) around the clock and sees far more ped traffic than the the pocket park would ever see on a daily basis. And yes, homeless people currently hang out at 7-eleven, but they also camp out at Modera Central overnight too.

Even in the final vision plan, we're not gaining that much usable space. People tend to congregate in the inner portion of the park unless certain events overflow to the sidewalk. Look at how little the Northeast entrance is used (where Panera Bread used to be which is a similar design to the 2nd rendering). Anyway, I'm done beating this dead horse, but sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone - but I understand will have a difference in opinion. What's done is done and I'm basically crying over spilled milk here.

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1 hour ago, nite owℓ said:

I agree with you but I never said parks weren't vital otherwise I would not have purchased a unit facing Lake Eola myself (and I've been coming to Lake Eola since I was a kid). Please let's include a little context because as I said earlier - Rail & Parks each have their own sense of urgency (and priority) to contend with. When it comes down to the economy & revenue availability I think it's safe to prioritize transit first. Of course someone else will add, "Why can't we have both?" and yes I would love to have it all but the money just isn't there so we have to prioritize and be thoughtful about how we implement things. We don't have enough money at the moment to fully expand the park so in this case a "pocket park" is just an amenity because we already have a full blown park with plenty of green space right next to it. 5000 sq ft isn't going to change the quality of anyone's life right now, however, we're getting rid of a building that is currently utilized by the public (literally) around the clock and sees far more ped traffic than the the pocket park would ever see on a daily basis. And yes, homeless people currently hang out at 7-eleven, but they also camp out at Modera Central overnight too.

Even in the final vision plan, we're not gaining that much usable space. People tend to congregate in the inner portion of the park unless certain events overflow to the sidewalk. Look at how little the Northeast entrance is used (where Panera Bread used to be which is a similar design to the 2nd rendering). Anyway, I'm done beating this dead horse, but sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone - but I understand will have a difference in opinion. What's done is done and I'm basically crying over spilled milk here.

Thanks for the context. I really don’t disagree with any of this but it’s important to remember that the 7 eleven and City Centre buildings are getting demolished on either timeline - either for a new high rise or new park space. In this case I’d much rather see the park space, even if the Rosalind Club may have more personal gains than us pedestrians. 

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8 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

What sparked my response was the confirmation that OLT (and the CRA) actually pulled off the sale, otherwise, it's pretty much the exact same convo we had back in December: https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/117895-lake-eola-neighbourhood/page/23/#comments.

OLT received plenty of help from the Downtown CRA which planned to contribute matching funds up to $1.2M as a private/public partnership, so let's not pretend like OLT fully raised $3.5M without any assistance from the City.

@uncreativeusername yes I misunderstood spenser, but it doesn't change my point: Transit is a necessity and parks are amenities. Adding a pocket park next to an already existing park serves no purpose and it should wait until we're ready to do it right.

I find it bizarre that people seem perfectly fine with destroying an urban streetscape while we sit and wait indefinitely for everything else to magically come together. There is a thoughtful way to expand the park so that we won't disfigure our streetscape- but it seems people are content with halving the baby in two. This is not some side street tucked away in the back, this is a prominent high-traffic area.

If their ultimate goal is park expansion (tear down 7-eleven and City Centre), why does the Rosalind Club feel entitled to remain untouched? Talk about hypocrisy.

Lake-Eola-low-res-corner.thumb.jpg.40730a70e994de0d26aec45970bfcee7.jpg

 

You summed up my view precisely. 
Don’t demolish a building that will create an eyesore while we “anticipate” an expanded park.

 

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18 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

You summed up my view precisely. 
Don’t demolish a building that will create an eyesore while we “anticipate” an expanded park.

 

The Rosalind Club is almost 100 years old and a significant part of the city’s history. Further, it’s an unusual traditional structure in that part of downtown.

The 7-Eleven is none of that - there are several buildings from that period along E. Robinson St.

The desire to save this lot (which was supposed to have become part of the park before the current building years ago but the transfer was halted because the seller raised the selling price at the last minute at the same time the Rosalind Club sold adjoining lots to the city - of course you never bothered to look up the history, did you?) came about because it looked like a tower was going to be erected on this corner and eat away at land many of us believe should be part of the park. Once built, you wouldn’t be able to undo it for decades based on Eola Park Center and Parkside, the two other towers abutting the park (another one almost got built just a few years ago until citizens like this worked tirelessly to get Buddy to expand the park instead. Glenda did the same thing in the ‘90’s so this is hardly an unusual tactic).

I confess I’m trying mightily not to see misogyny in the attitudes toward the Rosalind Club in all this but It’s been hard.

 

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11 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The Rosalind Club is almost 100 years old and a significant part of the city’s history. Further, it’s an unusual traditional structure in that part of downtown.

The 7-Eleven is none of that - there are several buildings from that period along E. Robinson St.

The desire to save this lot (which was supposed to have become part of the park before the current building years ago but the transfer was halted because the seller raised the selling price at the last minute at the same time the Rosalind Club sold adjoining lots to the city - of course you never bothered to look up the history, did you?) came about because it looked like a tower was going to be erected on this corner and eat away at land many of us believe should be part of the park. Once built, you wouldn’t be able to undo it for decades based on Eola Park Center and Parkside, the two other towers abutting the park (another one almost got built just a few years ago until citizens like this worked tirelessly to get Buddy to expand the park instead. Glenda did the same thing in the ‘90’s so this is hardly an unusual tactic).

I confess I’m trying mightily not to see misogyny in the attitudes toward the Rosalind Club in all this but It’s been hard.

 

7/11 is a tenant of the building along with a few other small businesses. 
I agree with those who fear that demolishing the streetscape will give us just another inactive lot downtown.

Lets wait until there is really a plan here.

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35 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Lets wait until there is really a plan here.

I mean, if these ladies were enterprising, they'd keep the 7-Eleven building there and collect rent until they raise enough to buy and tear down the Masonic Lodge next door (built 1925).

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5 minutes ago, smileguy said:

I mean, if these ladies were enterprising, they'd keep the 7-Eleven building there and collect rent until they raise enough to buy and tear down the Masonic Lodge next door (built 1925).

I’m sure this is in violation of any land purchase agreement that is meant to be donated.

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On 3/24/2021 at 12:41 PM, Uncommon said:

I disagree about that corner’s “urban fabric.” 

I wasn't even referring to that corner. While I disagree wholeheartedly with using it for a segregated park space that's not even integrated with the rest of the park, I'm much more concerned with the fact that Spenser wants to demolish EVERYTHING around the park. Everything except the Rosalind Club apparently. Because wanting that to go or even just acknowledging the hypocrisy of their agenda is somehow misogynist now.

Are we sure he's not a member there?

Edited by F-L-A
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10 hours ago, F-L-A said:

I wasn't even referring to that corner. While I disagree wholeheartedly with using it for a segregated park space that's not even integrated with the rest of the park, I'm much more concerned with the fact that Spenser wants to demolish EVERYTHING around the park. Everything except the Rosalind Club apparently. Because wanting that to go or even just acknowledging the hypocrisy of their agenda is somehow misogynist now.

Are we sure he's not a member there?

I'm not concerned about what spenser or anyone else on this forum wants to see happen regarding any aspect of Orlando's development because, let's face it, none of us have the power to make any of the things we support happen anyway.

I disagree with many opinions posted here, but it's still nothing more than personal opinion, so NBD.

I'm in the "leave the corner alone" camp.

I'd like to see the 7 Eleven building renovated into something cool looking that would incorporate the round windows that used to be on it and put some different business inside. 

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15 hours ago, smileguy said:

I mean, if these ladies were enterprising, they'd keep the 7-Eleven building there and collect rent until they raise enough to buy and tear down the Masonic Lodge next door (built 1925).

That would have been smart. It could have been clear that the land trust would resign 7-11 for 2-3 years and all revenues would go to the non profit. But I get why  it would they did not do this. 

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The Rosalind Club is almost 100 years old and a significant part of the city’s history. Further, it’s an unusual traditional structure in that part of downtown.

The 7-Eleven is none of that - there are several buildings from that period along E. Robinson St.

The desire to save this lot (which was supposed to have become part of the park before the current building years ago but the transfer was halted because the seller raised the selling price at the last minute at the same time the Rosalind Club sold adjoining lots to the city - of course you never bothered to look up the history, did you?) came about because it looked like a tower was going to be erected on this corner and eat away at land many of us believe should be part of the park. Once built, you wouldn’t be able to undo it for decades based on Eola Park Center and Parkside, the two other towers abutting the park (another one almost got built just a few years ago until citizens like this worked tirelessly to get Buddy to expand the park instead. Glenda did the same thing in the ‘90’s so this is hardly an unusual tactic).

I confess I’m trying mightily not to see misogyny in the attitudes toward the Rosalind Club in all this but It’s been hard.

 

I get the logic of the expanded park (though I would miss the center building and the house next door. But why not include the Rosalind club? Maybe not today but I can't imagine they will have the membership to sustain themselves in 10 years. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/26/2020 at 3:57 PM, spenser1058 said:

Meanwhile, folks come and go throughout the day into the park via Rosalind. As a bonus, Orlando Shakes is finally returning live theater to the Walt Disney Amphitheater whose main access is via Rosalind.

The set looks magical at night. First photo is from WFTV: https://www.clickorlando.com/entertainment/2021/04/03/15-years-later-orlando-shakes-returns-to-the-spotlight-at-lake-eola-for-live-performances/#// Someone on NextDoor posted the 2nd pic.

More photos are posted on Orlando Shakes' Facebook page. "Orlando Shakes' production of 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' appears from March 31 - April 17, 2021 at Lake Eola Park". Orlandoshakes.org for ticket info.

2144984403_OrlandoShakes.thumb.jpg.9beaa57a25a25e42b9a5d286ead94256.jpg

20210402_214843.thumb.jpg.9237c667f49459eba25ea96f53709c49.jpg

Edited by nite owℓ
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The Rosalind Club, a ladies club organized
in 1894, constructed its first clubhouse on
the current site of the Angebilt Hotel. In 1916,
Orlando architect Murry S. King designed this
structure overlooking Lake Eola. In 1919, the
city renamed west street to Rosalind at the
suggestion of Mayor Giles.

Plaque sponsored by
The Orlando Community Redevelopment Agency

So the current building is 105 years old. 

Photo491149o.png

Edited by RedStar25
Added Historical Photo.
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2 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

When the Rosalind Club membership fizzles out I wouldn't mind seeing the building gutted and turned into a lakeside restaurant/cafe (similar to the old Panera Bread or something more upscale) with lots of outdoor patio seating. And remove the perimeter fencing of course.

from your mouth to God's ear...

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  • 1 month later...
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I have no idea what they have in mind for this, but the empty lot next to EO Inn has been purchased by the owners of EO Inn. I'd love to see a larger boutique hotel that incorporates the current building, but who knows.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/07/07/downtown-orlando-florida-land-construction.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

 

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Talking about those corner lots reminds me of something we do in Chicago all the time ---> Selling FAR bonuses.

Downtown Orlando doesn't really restrict on an FAR basis, but they certainly do on height, setback, etc.

Create a fund where developers can buy bonus height/density and raise funds that way to buy this corner.  Costs the city literally nothing, gives them ample ability to push back on NIMBYs who complain, and accomplishes the goal of expanding the park.

Developers could use the expanded FAR credits to build something much larger than currently allowed, like a structure on the Day Building's parking lot.

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:00 AM, ChiDev said:

Talking about those corner lots reminds me of something we do in Chicago all the time ---> Selling FAR bonuses.

Downtown Orlando doesn't really restrict on an FAR basis, but they certainly do on height, setback, etc.

Create a fund where developers can buy bonus height/density and raise funds that way to buy this corner.  Costs the city literally nothing, gives them ample ability to push back on NIMBYs who complain, and accomplishes the goal of expanding the park.

Developers could use the expanded FAR credits to build something much larger than currently allowed, like a structure on the Day Building's parking lot.

Orlando has FAR restrictions, but I agree it would make sense to create an "exchange" program. OTOH, I imagine it would only be in the central core and not allow for pressing against the neighborhoods.

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