A Grand Vision 2.0

[WMrapids]

7 hours ago, GRLaker said:

That's perfect for the 5/3 Building. They're almost identical architecture. I love it. It wouldn't work for our federal building through. That thing needs a total re-do.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I'd say they just move offices to near the river and tear it down to provide for something else, maybe a little more convention or green space.

[WMrapids]

Well here is something I kinda just threw together. I wanted to see how Oakland Coliseum would fit in the Padnos block. Oakland Coliseum holds games for football, soccer and baseball, so that's about as multi-purpose as you can get. It's also the smallest NFL field and and second smallest MLB field.

A stadium here wouldn't need to be as large but it would be nice to have the multi-purpose use.

Just barely squeezes in the block. Who knows, maybe if there is some good financial backing the whole block could be developed.

Heres that skyline view. Sorry if it's a little messy because of everything blending together, but it gives the idea I hope...

Another idea I'm spitballing here. What if the Butterworth dump site was covered with parking that had solar panels above it?

[SEsideguy]

YEAHHHH!!!!! Don't forget to bring the "RAIDERS" and the "A's".  You could power the multi-purpose stadium with all the power forever. Concerts, Xgames, American ninja, motor cross, RV shows and tractor and truck pulls.

[GRDadof3]

8 hours ago, WMrapids said:

Well here is something I kinda just threw together. I wanted to see how Oakland Coliseum would fit in the Padnos block. Oakland Coliseum holds games for football, soccer and baseball, so that's about as multi-purpose as you can get. It's also the smallest NFL field and and second smallest MLB field.

A stadium here wouldn't need to be as large but it would be nice to have the multi-purpose use.

Just barely squeezes in the block. Who knows, maybe if there is some good financial backing the whole block could be developed.

Heres that skyline view. Sorry if it's a little messy because of everything blending together, but it gives the idea I hope...

Another idea I'm spitballing here. What if the Butterworth dump site was covered with parking that had solar panels above it?

The I-196 park-n-ride lot by Gravity has solar panels over it. Interesting idea. 

If you put a stadium like that over there, I imagine the powers that be will knock down a couple blocks of homes nearby to provide parking. Just sayin.

[EastownLeo]

Also keep in mind West Side Iron and Metal is vacating their Property on the north side of the Tanglefoot building..

[GRDadof3]

20 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

Also keep in mind West Side Iron and Metal is vacating their Property on the north side of the Tanglefoot building..

Interesting. And it's also interesting that the city already owns this sliver of land alongside Padnos', since 2012.

 

 

[SEsideguy]

I have to stop. Otherwise I will be "dreaming" about this for days.  haha

[GR8scott]

Love the modern saudium trend of not just being in downtowns but incorporating skyline views into the stadium experience/design, would be awesome! 

[thebeerqueer]

On 12/14/2016 at 9:52 AM, GRDadof3 said:

Interesting. And it's also interesting that the city already owns this sliver of land alongside Padnos', since 2012.

 

The city uses that site to store telephone/electrical poles. In a stroke of genius, they refer to it as the pole yard. 

[SEsideguy]

That use to be the city impound lot. Where did that go?

[EastownLeo]

30 minutes ago, SEsideguy said:

That use to be the city impound lot. Where did that go?

Down by the Water Filtration plant on Market.

[WMrapids]

I just realized how much the city and the county owns near the river and down Butterworth. Do you think we will ever see a merger between the zoo and Millenium Park? I think there are trails back there, but it would be nice to have it developed into an actual attraction. Not too developed though.

[Allison Slater]

That would be a bit of a distance between zoo sections, and I don't think it'd be very practical or effective.  Any hopes the zoo has of expanding would be to cross the highway into Mines Golf Course, but I don't think that's going anywhere anytime soon.

[Raildude's dad]

The County of Kent owns the zoo property plus just about everything south east of Butterworth out to Johnson Park. . GR owns the old  Butterworth landfill plus the yard waste area on the west side of Butterworth. There's lots of sand for mining north west of Butterworth and east of Maynard. The majority of the sand mining property in private ownership is owned by Meekhof Trucking with a good sized parcel owned by Andy Dykema. I suspect when the mining is complete (many decades from now)  the property will going into public ownership. The properties can not be built on due to all the old mined out areas below ground.

[GRDadof3]

4 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

The County of Kent owns the zoo property plus just about everything south east of Butterworth out to Johnson Park. . GR owns the old  Butterworth landfill plus the yard waste area on the west side of Butterworth. There's lots of sand for mining north west of Butterworth and east of Maynard. The majority of the sand mining property in private ownership is owned by Meekhof Trucking with a good sized parcel owned by Andy Dykema. I suspect when the mining is complete (many decades from now)  the property will going into public ownership. The properties can not be built on due to all the old mined out areas below ground.

I don't think the Mines can be built on either due to the old mines underneath. I seem to remember that's why they had a trailer for a clubhouse? Although they have an official clubhouse now. 

[SEsideguy]

WATCHOUT!!!! The sinkhooooooooooo........

[scottythe1nonly]

On 12/13/2016 at 10:56 PM, WMrapids said:

Well here is something I kinda just threw together. I wanted to see how Oakland Coliseum would fit in the Padnos block. Oakland Coliseum holds games for football, soccer and baseball, so that's about as multi-purpose as you can get. It's also the smallest NFL field and and second smallest MLB field.

A stadium here wouldn't need to be as large but it would be nice to have the multi-purpose use.

 

Just barely squeezes in the block. Who knows, maybe if there is some good financial backing the whole block could be developed.

Heres that skyline view. Sorry if it's a little messy because of everything blending together, but it gives the idea I hope...

Another idea I'm spitballing here. What if the Butterworth dump site was covered with parking that had solar panels above it?

Why does a stadium need to be part of a Soccer Complex?  If there was a stadium with 8 or more adjacent fields it's likely the stadium would still only be used for large events.  The costs of opening even a modest sized stadium for a match is high.  So high school and kids matches wouldn't be played in a new stadum anyway.  Also,  most pro teams today don't use their stadiums for practice and don't have adjacent practice fields.   It would make more sense to build a large soccer complex outside of the city.  Put just the marque stadium, for large events downtown.  

That coliseum in your picture is massive. Something like that today would cost $500 million to a billion dollars.  Grand Rapids is never going to have anything like that.  Try instead using Mapfre Stadium in Columbus, Ohio.  It's 20k seats.  Without the upper decks it's probably closer to what a USL Soccer Team or Div II Football team would use today.  It's also much closer to what could be built on a Grand Rapids sized Budget ($50 million)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapfre_Stadium

 

 This is a MUCH smaller footprint than the Coliseum.  Something in the 12-15k seat neighborhood would also work well for Div II football and Soccer. 

Another good example you could try dropping into your pic above would be Providence Park in Portland, which takes up less than a full city block and will soon hold 25k or more people (they're adding 5k more seats next year).  That big building at the south end of the stadium isn't part of the stadium.  It's a very expensive private club that's not part of Providence park.  

 

[scottythe1nonly]

I heard a rumor (second hand) about a proposed upgrade/remodel of Houseman Field. IMO it is already a great venue and location.  If you could move the track to another location (not sure what the options are for City Schools other than Houseman) you would have a perfect venue for thousands of additional seats (today bleachers are only on the North and South Side.  

Remove the track, move the field closer the south side bleachers and there would be enough room to build a more substantial seating area on the North side and at least one end of the stadium (east or west).  The current north side bleachers could probably be repurposed and moved to the west end of the field.  

You could also add "suites" to the north end along or above the current concrete concourse.  

I think that dropping $10 million into something like this would preserve the use of the stadium for the Schools for football and soccer, and also serve the needs of College and Pro (USL level) Soccer for the entire area.  

 

[GRLaker]

5 minutes ago, scottythe1nonly said:

I heard a rumor (second hand) about a proposed upgrade/remodel of Houseman Field. IMO it is already a great venue and location.  If you could move the track to another location (not sure what the options are for City Schools other than Houseman) you would have a perfect venue for thousands of additional seats (today bleachers are only on the North and South Side.  

Remove the track, move the field closer the south side bleachers and there would be enough room to build a more substantial seating area on the North side and at least one end of the stadium (east or west).  The current north side bleachers could probably be repurposed and moved to the west end of the field.  

You could also add "suites" to the north end along or above the current concrete concourse.  

I think that dropping $10 million into something like this would preserve the use of the stadium for the Schools for football and soccer, and also serve the needs of College and Pro (USL level) Soccer for the entire area.  

 

I like this idea, but the only issue would be the football lines. The league that GRFC wants to move up into does not allow them, which I think is the biggest reason for them to build a new stadium that is solely for soccer. 

[scottythe1nonly]

8 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

I like this idea, but the only issue would be the football lines. The league that GRFC wants to move up into does not allow them, which I think is the biggest reason for them to build a new stadium that is solely for soccer. 

the lines on the current field are permanent.  They would have to replace the entire field (it's a decade old anyway).  Lines would not be permanently painted.  They'd need a surface like that used in college/pro stadiums. And they could use "paint" that could be washed off and re applied for Football games.  

Providence Park in Portland is shared between the Portland Timbers and Thorns and Portland State football team.  The Timbers/Thorns supporters group actually scrubs off the soccer line markings with soap and water every time the field is prepped for a college football game.

 

[scottythe1nonly]

I'm going to keep going now with the Houseman Field - Providence Park comparison.....

The property that Houseman Field sits on is LARGER than the property that Providence Park in Portland occupies.  You could literally drop the Portland Timbers stadium onto the property where Houseman Field currently sits and you'd have approx 20% of the property left over.  

 

[joeDowntown]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:47 PM, scottythe1nonly said:

I'm going to keep going now with the Houseman Field - Providence Park comparison.....

The property that Houseman Field sits on is LARGER than the property that Providence Park in Portland occupies.  You could literally drop the Portland Timbers stadium onto the property where Houseman Field currently sits and you'd have approx 20% of the property left over.  

 

You might be right, but honestly, what is the point of retrofitting houseman if you are going big? A) you're not going to get GRPS to sell it. Sharing it is probably a huge headache (if I build a stadium I'd want to choose all the dates I wanted to use it), and parking would be a pain. Plus, no beer  

I think a better option is to start fresh. I think an even better option is for GVSU to build a stadium on the padnos site and we all go and drink beer and watch soccer downtown.

Joe

[walker]

Too late now but I think the property in Grandville where the castle is going would have been the ideal location for a soccer stadium.  It might have been the property’s highest and best use; no neighbors to bother, plenty of room for parking, access to major highways, and not a good location for much else.

EDIT: OK, I’ve re-thought this.  A soccer stadium would be the second best use for the property.  The first best use would have been as a casino.  All the same reasons as a stadium plus a casino wouldn’t have the traffic problems of everyone arriving and departing at the same time, and casinos are self-contained and by design are isolated from the outside world just like the castle location is naturally.

[Pattmost20]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

A) you're not going to get GRPS to sell it.

Never say never... I think if you offer to build a stadium and track facilities at Union, they would sell. Building new facilities at Union combined with buying and upgrading Houseman would still be cheaper than building a new stadium.

[GRLaker]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

You might be right, but honestly, what is the point of retrofitting houseman if you are going big? A) you're not going to get GRPS to sell it. Sharing it is probably a huge headache (if I build a stadium I'd want to choose all the dates I wanted to use it), and parking would be a pain. Plus, no beer  

I think a better option is to start fresh. I think an even better option is for GVSU to build a stadium on the padnos site and we all go and drink beer and watch soccer downtown.

Joe

While they're at it...Add a men's team. The women's soccer team is always extremely successful. I'd love to see a co-op stadium between GVSU and GRFC downtown that consists of GRFC and GVSU men and women games.