cityboi

The Triad's first Aloft Hotel to open in downtown Greensboro

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I kind of agree with Drew... it looks like they're trying to combine a bunch of elements into the same building... but it just doesn't work. It doesn't look so bad in the nighttime rendition and maybe that's what Carroll is going for. Plus, it is still just a rendition and almost certainly not a final one (though probably gives us our first rough idea of what we can expect).

Also, there's no way in the world this tower is 561 feet tall. None.

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12 hours ago, HRVT said:

I kind of agree with Drew... it looks like they're trying to combine a bunch of elements into the same building... but it just doesn't work. It doesn't look so bad in the nighttime rendition and maybe that's what Carroll is going for. Plus, it is still just a rendition and almost certainly not a final one (though probably gives us our first rough idea of what we can expect).

Also, there's no way in the world this tower is 561 feet tall. None.

Looks like Carroll is still working out the floor count. But if you add 5 more floors on the rendering it would be around 561 feet tall. An average 40 story building is around 560 feet tall. The deck is 8 stories. Add 5 to the 17 floors above the deck and thats 22 floors on an 8 story deck. The total crown spire looks about 10 stories so that would put the overall height at 40 stories tall. Its an optical illusion with the spire which makes it look well below 561. There is not a lot of mass where the crown/spire is. If its project 561, looks like Carroll cheated his way to 561 lol. Im willing to bet this could be close to the final design because the deck below is the final design. 

Overall I love the architectural elements. If I had to criticize it I would say the deck could blend in a little more with the tower. Maybe get rid of the pertruding glass on the deck wall. But other than that I have no problem at all with the other elements. But keep in mind it is a rendering and shadows will stand out more in renderings giving it darker edges. I guess its just a matter of taste.

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^^^ The design of that Aloft looks like the 615 South College building in Charlotte a project next to the Westin that John Portman of ATL designed.  Photo below. 

DSCN1546.JPG

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6 hours ago, cityboi said:

Looks like Carroll is still working out the floor count. But if you add 5 more floors on the rendering it would be around 561 feet tall. An average 40 story building is around 560 feet tall. The deck is 8 stories. Add 5 to the 17 floors above the deck and thats 22 floors on an 8 story deck. The total crown spire looks about 10 stories so that would put the overall height at 40 stories tall. Its an optical illusion with the spire which makes it look well below 561. There is not a lot of mass where the crown/spire is. If its project 561, looks like Carroll cheated his way to 561 lol. Im willing to bet this could be close to the final design because the deck below is the final design. 

Overall I love the architectural elements. If I had to criticize it I would say the deck could blend in a little more with the tower. Maybe get rid of the pertruding glass on the deck wall. But other than that I have no problem at all with the other elements. But keep in mind it is a rendering and shadows will stand out more in renderings giving it darker edges. I guess its just a matter of taste.

I don't think we should stress the 561 number of this project. It was never set in stone, and that's fine. Honestly, at whatever height above 10 stories is gonna make a massive impact on Greensboro. If it's 561', great. If it's 300', great. Regardless, this is gonna be a great project for the city. 561 was just a vanity number, and I really don't think its a legit confirmed number, or one that is feasible economics for the developer. Judging from the photos, I am counting 24 floors with a decorative crown. I think it is safe to say this is at least 300'.

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2 hours ago, Rufus said:

I don't think we should stress the 561 number of this project. It was never set in stone, and that's fine. Honestly, at whatever height above 10 stories is gonna make a massive impact on Greensboro. If it's 561', great. If it's 300', great. Regardless, this is gonna be a great project for the city. 561 was just a vanity number, and I really don't think its a legit confirmed number, or one that is feasible economics for the developer. Judging from the photos, I am counting 24 floors with a decorative crown. I think it is safe to say this is at least 300'.

Agreed... it's hard to get a good read from the renditions on the exact number of floors. But I'd say 24-27 floors looks about right. Even if we add a few more and the tower ends up being 30 stories, we're still not going to hit 561' (and that's OK).  The spire will add height too... but many 40 story buildings have spires and those come in around 560 feet (give or take).

I think we're going to be looking at the tallest building in Greensboro for sure (a big development still for sure). My guess is that Carroll is going to at the least gun for tallest in the Triad (so we'd need 461' at the minimum for that). If I had to guess, I think we're going to come in somewhere around 450'-500'.  And I'd be surprised if it were under 400'.

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True 561 height isnt a done deal. But from what I understand, the floor count is still unknown despite what the rendering shows. If Carroll wants to get to 561 he can just easily add 5 floors of residential above the hotel and office. In fact there has been recent discussion about doing just that. I dont know if that was factored into the rendering or if this is a recent addition after the fact. But even if you count 24 floors, add 5 floors to that and it puts it at 29. Add the 10 story spire and its 39 stories high, pretty much at 561. But until we know when this rendering was complete and whether or not the residential was factored into, its all just speculation at this point. 

40 stories at 560 ft may be typical in an office building but not always. 

Whitacre Tower in Dallas is 580 ft at 37 stories. 

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/One_AT%26T_Plaza.html

So even a 24 story building with a 10 story spire can be 561 feet.  Not all office floor heights are equal. 

Nevertheless, the tower in the rendering looks like it could surpass the Wells Fargo Tower in Winston-Salem. But we really need a better rendering. Its a somewhat of a poor quality photo of a cropped off rendering. 

Edited by cityboi

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14 hours ago, cityboi said:

True 561 height isnt a done deal. But from what I understand, the floor count is still unknown despite what the rendering shows. If Carroll wants to get to 561 he can just easily add 5 floors of residential above the hotel and office. In fact there has been recent discussion about doing just that. I dont know if that was factored into the rendering or if this is a recent addition after the fact. But even if you count 24 floors, add 5 floors to that and it puts it at 29. Add the 10 story spire and its 39 stories high, pretty much at 561. But until we know when this rendering was complete and whether or not the residential was factored into, its all just speculation at this point. 

40 stories at 560 ft may be typical in an office building but not always. 

Whitacre Tower in Dallas is 580 ft at 37 stories. 

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/One_AT%26T_Plaza.html

So even a 24 story building with a 10 story spire can be 561 feet.  Not all office floor heights are equal. 

Nevertheless, the tower in the rendering looks like it could surpass the Wells Fargo Tower in Winston-Salem. But we really need a better rendering. Its a somewhat of a poor quality photo of a cropped off rendering. 

I totally get your excitement for this project to get to 561, or even beat out Wells Fargo in W-S, but honestly, there's no need to aspire for such vanity. Greensboro is seeing so much exciting development, and none of it has ever seemed like a vanity project. I can assure you, Carroll is not concerned about the height. He's concerned about the economics. Residential might not be the best way to get this project off the ground. Who knows? None of us. But for Carroll to get the best bang for his buck, he's not aiming for height as a priority.

And, until we actually see what is submitted to the city, it's safe to make assumptions, but I doubt this thing goes above 25 stories.

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Guess we'll see what Carroll announces 561 or not. The question I have is why is Carroll not announing anything about the project? We know its ago because of the Aloft announcement on Starwood's website and the fact that Carroll is building a 1, 000 space deck for his project to go on top of. Carroll stated he already has a few large and medium sized companies wanting to lease space in "Project 561" and they could easily fill up the space in what is presented in the rendering. He may very well scale it down some but its just odd that he refuses to comment on it at all even though everything that we know of seems to be in place to at least make some sort of announcement by Carroll that he is planning an Aloft mixed-use tower with office space.  Carroll was not this quiet with Center Pointe or Carroll at Bellemeade.  So it could be a sign he is shooting for 561. Maybe.... Maybe not. The only comment he has made is that hes working on a Legacy project for downtown and that it would be special. A downsized 24 story building is great for downtown but I probably wouldn't call it a legacy project. So we will have to see when Carroll finally makes an announcement 561 or not. 

Some people dont like the design of the tower on the deck. I do but its very possible its and optional design. I also would not read into the height based on the rendering either. I remember when Triad Tower was first proposed a "final" rendering was released showing a 14 story office tower. The rendering was later updated with the same exacted design but the height changed to 22 stories. That proposal never took off because the country had started to go into a recession at the time. 

Edited by cityboi

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32 minutes ago, Rufus said:

I totally get your excitement for this project to get to 561, or even beat out Wells Fargo in W-S, but honestly, there's no need to aspire for such vanity. Greensboro is seeing so much exciting development, and none of it has ever seemed like a vanity project. I can assure you, Carroll is not concerned about the height. He's concerned about the economics. Residential might not be the best way to get this project off the ground. Who knows? None of us. But for Carroll to get the best bang for his buck, he's not aiming for height as a priority.

And, until we actually see what is submitted to the city, it's safe to make assumptions, but I doubt this thing goes above 25 stories.

But wasn't it Carroll who said that he would like bragging rights over Raleigh by having the tallest building in NC outside of Charlotte? It may well have started out as a vanity project but reality has finally set in and he can only build what the market in Greensboro will allow him to build.

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11 minutes ago, RALNATIVE said:

But wasn't it Carroll who said that he would like bragging rights over Raleigh by having the tallest building in NC outside of Charlotte? It may well have started out as a vanity project but reality has finally set in and he can only build what the market in Greensboro will allow him to build.

No one knows what Carroll is doing because he is not commenting on it so its a little premature to say hes not building a 561 tower.  561 is just a number.  He can achieve that height a couple of ways. I think its safe to say its not getting built as first proposed with 28 floors of office space. If that were the case youd be right. The project seems to have evolved becoming more of a mixed use project and again that combined with 8 stories of parking and a spire 561 can easily be achieved regardless of the office market. The key is mixed-use. Thats really the only way Greensboro is going to get a really tall tower at this point. But yes I have to concede the possibility of it being downsized. But none of us will know until Carroll makes the announcement despite what we "feel" the market conditions are for a tall skyscraper.  And we don't have all the details. 

Edited by cityboi

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I agree to get to that height in Greensboro with the current market conditions it would need to be a mixed tower.  Maybe like Raleigh's PNC tower which is parking levels topped by office space topped by condos (probably apartments in this market) with a spire.   Charlotte's tallest building has not be topped since 1992 (Bank of America Corp Center)  It is expensive to build really tall but there are some tenants that would pay the premium some of your larger law firms, some financial institutions, maybe Lincoln Financial etc. 

San Antonio is just now getting  a new high rise office tower downtown after 25 years!  (the new Frost Bank Tower)  

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10 hours ago, cityboi said:

No one knows what Carroll is doing because he is not commenting on it so its a little premature to say hes not building a 561 tower.  561 is just a number.  He can achieve that height a couple of ways. I think its safe to say its not getting built as first proposed with 28 floors of office space. If that were the case youd be right. The project seems to have evolved becoming more of a mixed use project and again that combined with 8 stories of parking and a spire 561 can easily be achieved regardless of the office market. The key is mixed-use. Thats really the only way Greensboro is going to get a really tall tower at this point. But yes I have to concede the possibility of it being downsized. But none of us will know until Carroll makes the announcement despite what we "feel" the market conditions are for a tall skyscraper.  And we don't have all the details. 

 Did I say that he's not building a 561 tower??? My statements are generally unambiguous. All that I stated was that market conditions will dictate what get's built. That is indisputable.

Unlike a year or so ago, Carroll is now being more cautious about making specific statements about this project and that's probably a good thing.

Edited by RALNATIVE

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