Downtown Greensboro is getting a Westin Hotel

[GSOstrong]

Westin photo update. 1/3 the way up

How many floors will this be when it tops out? I always thought the hotel would be built atop the parking deck but I guess plans changed


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[cityboi]

1 minute ago, GSOstrong said:

How many floors will this be when it tops out? I always thought the hotel would be built atop the parking deck but I guess plans changed


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Its 11 total. Was 12 until the city reduced the deck height by one floor 

[cityboi]

28 minutes ago, GSOstrong said:

How many floors will this be when it tops out? I always thought the hotel would be built atop the parking deck but I guess plans changed


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Its 11 total. Was 12 until the city reduced the deck height by one floor.

I must say though I'm not digging the east side of the hotel. They could have masked the deck below the hotel so that it wouldn't look like a generic parking deck and the hotel on this side is basically a cube. The front is ok. What is it with downtown Greensboro developers and their designs?

Based on how the hotel is going up this does appear to be the final design. One would hope there are at least a few last minute changes to spruce the design up a little.

Front

rear (east side) well at least they are including street level retail so thar the deck doesn't create a completely dead block.

Reminds me of a beach house on stilts. Maybe they are expecting a flood from the so called underground river in downtown Greensboro. 

They did it right with the Hampton Inn in downtown Roanoke. The brick portion is the deck.

Edited May 18, 2022 by cityboi

[GSOstrong]

Its 11 total. Was 12 until the city reduced the deck height by one floor.
I must say though I'm not digging the east side of the hotel. They could have masked the deck below the hotel so that it wouldn't look like a generic parking deck and the hotel on this side is basically a cube. The front is ok. What is it with downtown Greensboro developers and their designs?
Based on how the hotel is going up this does appear to be the final design. One would hope there are at least a few last minute changes to spruce the design up a little.
Front

rear (east side)

I agree but I actually like the new design of the hotel vs the old renderings. Looking at the current construction it doesn’t seem like a deck with be directly below the hotel, looks like it’s just sitting beside it to me but I could be wrong. They definitely could’ve come up with a better design for the deck in general though


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[P.SAUNDERS]

Honestly, I am let down with this news. If I wasn't mistaken this hotel with the parking lot was going be 15-18 stories, with a 6 story parking deck with shops under it. Then it downsizes to 12 & 5, now 11 & 5.  At the beginning of this project I was so excited for this project and the 20 story building Roy Carroll was planning. Thinking how Greensboro's Skyline was going to transform and grow. Every time I think Greensboro downtown is about to progress and match what a city of 300,000 plus should be, they {The City} all ways let us down with the plans. Why is it this city is so slow or having road blocks in this area? I know we are not Charlotte or Raleigh, but heck we can't even match Durham, at least they have a 28 story high rise building with apts. Winston-Salem skyline is still more larger than us and both cities populations are under us. What puzzles me is Greensboro population is almost equals to other cities like Orlando, Fla, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Minn and Newark, NJ., but their skylines are way bigger and prettier than ours. It is many things I love about this city, but their are some things that make me rubbed my head about the red tape and road blocks this city place on developers. Not trying to be ugly or mean, but being honest and a bit let down over the revised plans and other things that got cancelled.  You can tell I have a love for skylines, lol!!! 

Edited May 18, 2022 by P.SAUNDERS

[GSOstrong]

Honestly, I am let down with this news. If I wasn't mistaken this hotel with the parking lot was going be 15-18 stories, with a 6 story parking deck with shops under it. Then it downsizes to 12 & 5, now 11 & 5.  At the beginning of this project I was so excited for this project and the 20 story building Roy Carroll was planning. Thinking how Greensboro's Skyline was going to transform and grow. Every time I think Greensboro downtown is about to progress and match what a city of 300,000 plus should be, they {The City} all ways let us down with the plans. Why is it this city is so slow or having road blocks in this area? I know we are not Charlotte or Raleigh, but heck we can't even match Durham, at least they have a 28 story high rise building with apts. Winston-Salem skyline is still more larger than us and both cities populations are under us. What puzzles me is Greensboro population is almost equals to other cities like Orlando, Fla, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Minn and Newark, NJ., but their skylines are way bigger and prettier than ours. It is many things I love about this city, but their are some things that make me rubbed my head about the red tape and road blocks this city place on developers. Not trying to be ugly or mean, but being honest and a bit let down over the revised plans and other things that got cancelled.  You can tell I have a love for skylines, lol!!! 

I think we don’t have a skyline like comparable cities by size because we aren’t a big tourist city as those are and in my opinion Greensboro as a whole is a disappointment. Greensboro is full of people who doesn’t like evolution and want things to stay the same as they were 30 years ago when everyone knew everybody and didn’t have a claim to fame for the world to attract people. And on top of that city leaders seem to be so incompetent as to what it takes for Greensboro to be in the spotlight to make people want to live here, let alone visit. Citizens of Greensboro want it to be a country town forever and it’s disgusting to me. I hate someone who despise change and so closed minded as this city seems to be.


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[jthomas]

13 hours ago, cityboi said:

Reminds me of a beach house on stilts. Maybe they are expecting a flood from the so called underground river in downtown Greensboro. 

 

This is the first time I've seen these angles, and wow - total garbage. I have seen better designs and renderings from third-year architecture students. Complete amateur effort by all involved on this project. This complex will be a blight on this section of downtown for at least a generation. Can't believe it has taken a decade just to plop out this turd.

[Rufus]

9 hours ago, P.SAUNDERS said:

Honestly, I am let down with this news. If I wasn't mistaken this hotel with the parking lot was going be 15-18 stories, with a 6 story parking deck with shops under it. Then it downsizes to 12 & 5, now 11 & 5.  At the beginning of this project I was so excited for this project and the 20 story building Roy Carroll was planning. Thinking how Greensboro's Skyline was going to transform and grow. Every time I think Greensboro downtown is about to progress and match what a city of 300,000 plus should be, they {The City} all ways let us down with the plans. Why is it this city is so slow or having road blocks in this area? I know we are not Charlotte or Raleigh, but heck we can't even match Durham, at least they have a 28 story high rise building with apts. Winston-Salem skyline is still more larger than us and both cities populations are under us. What puzzles me is Greensboro population is almost equals to other cities like Orlando, Fla, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Minn and Newark, NJ., but their skylines are way bigger and prettier than ours. It is many things I love about this city, but their are some things that make me rubbed my head about the red tape and road blocks this city place on developers. Not trying to be ugly or mean, but being honest and a bit let down over the revised plans and other things that got cancelled.  You can tell I have a love for skylines, lol!!! 

I think it's a few things: 

1. Greensboro's size relative to overall MSA and Urban Area numbers is quite small. Greensboro gets to the 295,000 population by way of annexation -- which is what most NC cities get, but it also deflates the density because it is so spread out. And the MSA is large, but remember, that is like 6 counties wide. Greensboro is also not the dominant city of the metro. I don't even think the Triad has a dominant city like Charlotte, or even Raleigh has some dominance compared to the other cities in the Triangle. 

2. The other cities you mentioned are mostly rust-belt major urban areas that reached a peak city population in 1950, and have since seen their suburbs boom. All of the ones you mention have 2million+ metro populations. And Orlando is such an outlier because it is such a tourist destination globally. 

3. Parking decks and bad design are throughout US Cities. Without established cores like older cities, it's really hard to challenge the notion that these should not be car oriented. Parking decks mean money to developers because they usually are fee-based. And they are quick returns on investment. And it sucks. Cities across the country have ugly parking decks, it's not just Greensboro. That being said, elected officials need to start getting serious about densifying the core to help relieve overburdening their resources because of sprawl. 

[cityboi]

9 hours ago, jthomas said:

This is the first time I've seen these angles, and wow - total garbage. I have seen better designs and renderings from third-year architecture students. Complete amateur effort by all involved on this project. This complex will be a blight on this section of downtown for at least a generation. Can't believe it has taken a decade just to plop out this turd.

When I first saw it, I thought it was just a place holder for the website until the final design was revealed. Literally an 8 year could design this and probably better. From the back its basically just a glass box with zero character and the exposed cheaply built deck below makes it look worse. I just don't understand why the developer went with this.

Edited May 18, 2022 by cityboi

[HRVT]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:12 AM, jthomas said:

This is the first time I've seen these angles, and wow - total garbage. I have seen better designs and renderings from third-year architecture students. Complete amateur effort by all involved on this project. This complex will be a blight on this section of downtown for at least a generation. Can't believe it has taken a decade just to plop out this turd.

$$$

And the front is awful. It looks like a budget design from the 1960s.

IMO it's largely driven by some desperation to just complete this project and check a box... 

Absurd.

Edited May 19, 2022 by HRVT

[HRVT]

On 5/18/2022 at 1:45 AM, P.SAUNDERS said:

Honestly, I am let down with this news. If I wasn't mistaken this hotel with the parking lot was going be 15-18 stories, with a 6 story parking deck with shops under it. Then it downsizes to 12 & 5, now 11 & 5.  At the beginning of this project I was so excited for this project and the 20 story building Roy Carroll was planning. Thinking how Greensboro's Skyline was going to transform and grow. Every time I think Greensboro downtown is about to progress and match what a city of 300,000 plus should be, they {The City} all ways let us down with the plans. Why is it this city is so slow or having road blocks in this area? I know we are not Charlotte or Raleigh, but heck we can't even match Durham, at least they have a 28 story high rise building with apts. Winston-Salem skyline is still more larger than us and both cities populations are under us. What puzzles me is Greensboro population is almost equals to other cities like Orlando, Fla, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Minn and Newark, NJ., but their skylines are way bigger and prettier than ours. It is many things I love about this city, but their are some things that make me rubbed my head about the red tape and road blocks this city place on developers. Not trying to be ugly or mean, but being honest and a bit let down over the revised plans and other things that got cancelled.  You can tell I have a love for skylines, lol!!! 

Yeah, skylines don't mean everything. It's much better to have a solid core of 10-15 buildings at 200-300 feet height vs 3-5 300+ foot towers.

Take a look at Norfolk. It has a short skyline, but there are a fair number of 200ish foot tall buildings and lots of activity.... and once they get of their downtown mall it'll be even better.

[P.SAUNDERS]

HRVT,  I see where you coming from with the Norfolk, Va example.  For a  population of 245,000 that city downtown is nicely put together and well done. Very impressive, to bad our city don't have this type of planning or vision. Norfolk  downtown looks very modern, urban and clean.

Edited May 21, 2022 by P.SAUNDERS

[cityboi]

I just feel like there are ways of cutting costs without sacrificing design. These structures are going to be standing for decades. Downtown gets a poor grade when it comes to architectural design of its developments. There has been nothing built that makes you say WOW. DGI needs to work with these developers and steer them in the right direction. Or maybe there needs to be some sort of design ordinance downtown. Historic districts have them, why not downtown? But that design is not worthy of the Westin name brand.

 

I wasn't a big fan of this design below either but its better than the current one. At least there was an effort to hide the deck below the hotel.

Edited May 22, 2022 by cityboi

[P.SAUNDERS]

You're right about that, this has to be the blandest Westin Hotel design I ever seen.

[mintscraft56]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:44 PM, HRVT said:

Yeah, skylines don't mean everything. It's much better to have a solid core of 10-15 buildings at 200-300 feet height vs 3-5 300+ foot towers.

Take a look at Norfolk. It has a short skyline, but there are a fair number of 200ish foot tall buildings and lots of activity.... and once they get of their downtown mall it'll be even better.

You have summoned a Norfolk Resident. Our skyline is indeed stunted but it does not stop us from being a mid sized city full of activity. Its a good choice to compare our cities like this too.

[HRVT]

3 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

You have summoned a Norfolk Resident. Our skyline is indeed stunted but it does not stop us from being a mid sized city full of activity. Its a good choice to compare our cities like this too.

Former VB resident (not one of THOSE VB residents) and I loved going into Norfolk to do things. And it seems to have some real momentum going.

If only the light rail could get going....

[mintscraft56]

8 hours ago, HRVT said:

Former VB resident (not one of THOSE VB residents) and I loved going into Norfolk to do things. And it seems to have some real momentum going.

If only the light rail could get going....

Light rail is looking at expansion but it really is a shame for how short it is.

[jthomas]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:13 AM, cityboi said:

I just feel like there are ways of cutting costs without sacrificing design. These structures are going to be standing for decades. Downtown gets a poor grade when it comes to architectural design of its developments. There has been nothing built that makes you say WOW. DGI needs to work with these developers and steer them in the right direction. Or maybe there needs to be some sort of design ordinance downtown. Historic districts have them, why not downtown? But that design is not worthy of the Westin name brand.

I would be in favor of design standards as long as they are not too prescriptive, but not in favor of adding another layer of approvals for downtown development. There has to be a careful balance between promoting quality work while ensuring that the development process does not become unduly long, cumbersome, or expensive.

IMO, the fatal flaw of the project was the decision to incorporate parking into the hotel structure itself. The actual hotel site is too small for a parking structure, and apparently the city decided they needed a ton more parking downtown (on a somewhat dubious and opaque basis, if I recall). This led to the idea of a public/private partnership to bridge over February 1 and create a monstrous edifice for the storage of private automobiles, with a small building for people perched on top. The developer has seemed very borderline on being able to make this project work the whole time. It's been a complex deal, and the city has been amateurish at every turn. As a taxpayer, I'm not happy to see how the quality of this project has been constantly and quietly downgraded to something that is totally unacceptable. 

[KJHburg]

the new Westin hotel and parking deck today.  From a couple of angles. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

I see the renderings here I forgotten what this looked like.

https://www.westingreensboro.com/

[cityboi]

Looks like the Westin is about at the halfway mark and has almost risen to the height of the old Elm Street Center. The floor that is going up now is the first hotel floor above the deck.

Edited July 10, 2022 by cityboi

[cityboi]

[cityboi]

From another perspective.

[cityboi]

Developer Andy Zimmerman plans to covert space attached to the Elm Street Center (future conference space for the Westin) into retail and a restaurant. A speakeasy is planned.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2022/07/22/zimmerman-brings-vision-into-renovation-of-buil.html

[cityboi]

Looks like the deck will be stuck at floor six for a while. The Westin will be built on top of the deck after the entire parking deck is complete which will be in the spring of 2023. Not sure why construction is dragging so much. Once construction starts on the Westin on top, add another 8 or 9 months or so which would put the construction time around two years starting with the rise of the crane back in January to completion. That crane is going to be up there for a while. This has got to be the slowest downtown project in Greensboro's history. It was first proposed a decade ago.

Edited August 25, 2022 by cityboi