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14 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

The Princes are Dutch Reformed, not CRC.  Remember:

Holland --> Hope College --> Reformed Church in America

Grand Rapids --> Calvin College --> Christian Reformed Church

 

12 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Wait, there's a difference? 

Ditto.  I had no idea.  Are they like the Sunni and Shiite sects of the Muslim religion?  Do they have conflict with each other?

TMYK_HEADER.jpg

Edited by wingbert
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26 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

The funniest part about the whole thing is The Netherlands is a wildly liberal place, not identifiable to either of those campus climates (besides the prevalence of tall, blonde haired, blue eyed people).

Rich Devos has been working for years to join the two denominations back together.

http://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/05/can_rich_devos_reunite_crc_rca.html

https://www.theaquilareport.com/crc-and-rca-the-fundamental-differences/

Edited by EastownLeo
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24 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

The funniest part about the whole thing is The Netherlands is a wildly liberal place, not identifiable to either of those campus climates (besides the prevalence of tall, blonde haired, blue eyed people).

I think that's why they left...To escape "religious persecution" in a land that was moving away from their line of thinking.  

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50 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

The funniest part about the whole thing is The Netherlands is a wildly liberal place, not identifiable to either of those campus climates (besides the prevalence of tall, blonde haired, blue eyed people).

Well right, but I think the Dutch population that settled here were specifically Calvinists that didn't agree with the societal and philosophical direction Holland was going at the time no?  They didn't even then represent the political leanings of the mainstream Dutch.  Perhaps the reason the Netherlands is so liberal is because all of the people would would have had opposing views are in Ottawa County?

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6 hours ago, mgreven said:

I’d say the biggest conflict is on the basketball court. :)  #calvinhope

My oldest is going to college next year and someone said I should check out Hope. I said "Do you know me?"  :rofl::alc::ph34r:

I jest, I know a lot of Calvin and Hope grads and the ones I know seem to be pretty progressive/middle of the road. 

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5 hours ago, MJLO said:

Well right, but I think the Dutch population that settled here were specifically Calvinists that didn't agree with the societal and philosophical direction Holland was going at the time no?  They didn't even then represent the political leanings of the mainstream Dutch.  Perhaps the reason the Netherlands is so liberal is because all of the people would would have had opposing views are in Ottawa County?

I guess I should have stated the funny thing is that the Dutch people here in West Michigan are so proud of their Dutch heritage but their motherland is, socially, the exact opposite of what they idolize. 

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51 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

My oldest is going to college next year and someone said I should check out Hope. I said "Do you know me?"  :rofl::alc::ph34r:

I jest, I know a lot of Calvin and Hope grads and the ones I know seem to be pretty progressive/middle of the road. 

Hope seems to churn out the brewers...Founders, New Holland and Vivant - all Hope grads.

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4 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

I guess I should have stated the funny thing is that the Dutch people here in West Michigan are so proud of their Dutch heritage but their motherland is, socially, the exact opposite of what they idolize. 

Not really considering it’s a majority population. Outside of Holland There’s like no Dutch restaurants, no one still speaks Dutch, no Dutch flags flying in yards, no Dutch tattoos ect. It’s no where remotely close to Italian pride or even other common Europeans like German, English, Irish, Polish. I wish there was more of an identity and pride in the area. 

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13 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Not really considering it’s a majority population. Outside of Holland There’s like no Dutch restaurants, no one still speaks Dutch, no Dutch flags flying in yards, no Dutch tattoos ect. It’s no where remotely close to Italian pride or even other common Europeans like German, English, Irish, Polish. I wish there was more of an identity and pride in the area

Well there is with the West Michigan Dutch...It's just more of the ol' elitist mentality of "if you ain't Dutch, ya ain't much." Whether that mindset is triggered by a cultural identity or a common religion - I have no idea. As a mix of many European origins except Dutch, I have often felt a disconnect in the area culture/inner circle. It's like an elite club to be a part of.

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On 3/16/2018 at 5:25 PM, GR8scott said:

Not really considering it’s a majority population. Outside of Holland There’s like no Dutch restaurants, no one still speaks Dutch, no Dutch flags flying in yards, no Dutch tattoos ect. It’s no where remotely close to Italian pride or even other common Europeans like German, English, Irish, Polish. I wish there was more of an identity and pride in the area. 

 

12 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Well there is with the West Michigan Dutch...It's just more of the ol' elitist mentality of "if you ain't Dutch, ya ain't much." Whether that mindset is triggered by a cultural identity or a common religion - I have no idea. As a mix of many European origins except Dutch, I have often felt a disconnect in the area culture/inner circle. It's like an elite club to be a part of.

I think both of these are accurate... Though I don't think there's very much Dutch elitism anymore.  I've never encountered anything like that myself (though I didn't grow up in a very Dutch neighborhood).  The "If you an't Dutch, ya ain't much" saying harkens back more to the early 20th Century, when the Dutch community was more of a local political machine.  On the other hand, you can drive around through Polish neighborhoods in GR and see the White Eagle emblem on buildings, the Polish Falcons and other organizations are still around, Pulaski Days are still celebrated, etc.  So I agree with @GR8scott that it seems like Dutch culture is less visible in GR.  A couple thoughts on why I think this is (FYI these are just my personal opinions):

--First, for Dutch Calvinist immigrants, the church was at the center of their identity.  They were taught that any secular associations were not to compete with the church (hence labor unions were frowned upon).  So, while the Dutch community certainly did assert its own identity in the area, it was through religion, not nationalism.

--Second, Dutch immigrants didn't settle in and take over whole neighborhoods like the Germans and Polish did.  They settled in small clusters interspersed throughout the city, and each cluster was populated by immigrants from a particular Dutch province (Source), where they could be closer to their kin and speak the same regional dialects.  So it's possible that a Dutch immigrant would identify more as a Zeelander or a Groninger as opposed to a Dutch national.

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On 3/16/2018 at 9:42 AM, EastownLeo said:

Between this and the family research project into finding a way for a camel to fit through the eye of needle, that man has his hands full.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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New development downtown Holland is still expanding in scope.  The 2 buildings on right are now being proposed.  This group of buildings would be immediately to the East/Left of the Hopcat/Sperry's Movie House rendering above.

https://www.cityofholland.com/sites/default/files/fileattachments/68_w._8th_st._spr_packet.pdf

8th street Holland.pdf

2018-05-25_134233.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Hey, I can see my investment property on that map. Which is exactly why I bought in that neighborhood. Super excited for this development! 

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Call me a pessimist, but the likelihood of that site filling in with all of that is slim to none. Muskegon is on life support and I can assure them that people aren't lining up for vacation homes on Muskegon Lake. But hopefully I'm wrong and they're somehow able to create demand. 

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10 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Call me a pessimist, but the likelihood of that site filling in with all of that is slim to none. Muskegon is on life support and I can assure them that people aren't lining up for vacation homes on Muskegon Lake. But hopefully I'm wrong and they're somehow able to create demand. 

I've always been curious why Muskegon Lake is not popular with a lot of people.  Is it really polluted?  It's the largest lake that connects to Lake Michigan and it seems like people would much rather be on Spring Lake or Macatawa.  

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2 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Call me a pessimist, but the likelihood of that site filling in with all of that is slim to none. Muskegon is on life support and I can assure them that people aren't lining up for vacation homes on Muskegon Lake. But hopefully I'm wrong and they're somehow able to create demand. 

While I'll agree this project will probably not hit its full potential, new houses and condos are going up downtown and on Muskegon Lake and are selling pretty well. The housing market in the popular neighborhoods is picking up as well.

2 hours ago, GRJohn said:

I've always been curious why Muskegon Lake is not popular with a lot of people.  Is it really polluted?  It's the largest lake that connects to Lake Michigan and it seems like people would much rather be on Spring Lake or Macatawa.  

Muskegon Lake has more marina slips than Grand Haven or Holland, it is super popular with boaters and Pere Marquette Beach is packed in the summer. It is true that Muskegon Lake lacks as many homes as Macatawa or other smaller lakes that connect with Lake Michigan, however I believe that is more a function of Muskegon's industrial past, not a lot of home sites on the south side of the lake.

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