SPORTS AND ATHLETIC FACILITIES

[MidTenn1]

I discussed creating such a topic with Mark and he agreed this was a good idea. There has been much talk on sports talk radio recently of a new stadium to replace Nissan Stadium when the lease with the Oilers/Titans expires in 12 years.The talk was spurred by the exit of the storied San Diego Chargers from San Diego this past week.

Also, there is talk of a new Vanderbilt Stadium in the MLS topic as the partnership sounds likely. The MLS topic is seems to be an appropriate forum for this discussion as an application is made for a franchise. But, maybe such discussion can be moved here later as it becomes a construction/development issue.

Also, other discussion can involve  TSU's need for an on-campus stadium, the loss of auto racing, Municipal Auditorium, and any others that may pop up from time to time.

[MidTenn1]

For starters, I saw the Jackson State proposal for an on-campus domed stadium a year ago (link below). I initially thought it would make a great stadium for Vanderbilt. I don't know what the status is, but the design and cost looks like something to build on as a prospective Titans stadium. I know $200 million is an absurd estimate, but adding another $800 million for seating, restrooms, club seats, underground parking and offices, luxury boxes and all other NFL stadium standards might be feasible. I also think 60,000 seats may be adequate for a new stadium. This would be suitable for a Superbowl, Final Four, Political Convention, College Playoff, etc. The climate controlled stadium may encourage better attendance, also.

JACKSON STATE/MISSISSIPPI DOMED STADIUM PROPOSAL

And we don't need a expensive luxuries such as a retractable roof, decorative fins, Thoughts?

[UTgrad09]

My thought is that we shouldn't be worrying about a new NFL stadium until we are closer to the point when the lease expires. As awesome as it would be to host a Super Bowl, if it comes at the cost of building a brand new stadium 10 years too early (and still paying off a stadium that will be demolished...), then it is absolutely not worth it.

That said, we should definitely have this on our minds. With a potential massive project on the distant horizon, we need to think hard about where we are spending our money today. It's one thing to seize opportunities; it's another to squander the future in order to enjoy the present.

There are a lot of things to consider:

-The cost of stadiums seem to be rising dramatically, and the NFL is encouraging and awarding new stadia with hosting a Super Bowl. Waiting may indeed make building a new stadium even more costly than today (accounting for inflation).

-I feel there is a rising current in terms of dissatisfaction in how the NFL and their teams treat their cities. Cities/citizens footing the bill for billionaire-owned team's stadiums has become the norm. And many times there is little or no contribution from the team/owners for the new stadium (depends on the market, sometimes...). With Nashville being a new market, we don't have the same leverage as a lot of the older markets (if the Chargers can move, how hard would it be for the Titans?). But this attitude isn't without its critics. Many, even hardcore sports fans, are starting to become upset with how the league and teams essentially extort cities/states for money (stadiums) when they could certainly afford to pay for -- or at least chip in -- to *invest* in the city. It's corporate welfare. My question is, in the next 10-12 years, will there be enough change in public opinion to shift the burden of stadium-building from the city to the team (or at least a share of it...)?

-Open air vs. dome vs. retractable roof -- Obviously as things stand currently, for Nashville to host a Super Bowl, it needs to have a dome or retractable roof...but that's not to say that it will always be the case. New York hosted a Super Bowl in an open air stadium....now....obviously New York is a special case, but there is now some precedent in recent history. The NFL may eventually relax their standards (plus, fans -- especially TV fans -- seem to *love* bad weather games or games in the elements). The upside of an open air stadium is obviously that it is much cheaper to build. The downside is that it is much less versatile. No need to worry about weather delays. You can host mega-concerts any time of year. You can host events like the NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four. It opens up a lot more uses for the stadium...so...the extra cost isn't necessarily without the extra benefit. That said, static domes are not en vogue. It's all about the retractable roof...because if it's 60-80 degrees outside, why would you NOT want to play in the natural weather under natural light?

Let's keep our eye on things and see how they turn out. Let's not get ahead of ourselves on a football stadium. 

[titanhog]

If we end up building a new stadium...and if the city pays for it...I at least hope this time the city will get to decide what events and how many events can be used there and get as much use as they do with Bridgestone Arena.  With Nissan Stadium, the Titans have so much say over things that the stadium gets only a small number of usages compared to what it possibly could get.

[PruneTracy]

21 hours ago, UTgrad09 said:

With Nashville being a new market, we don't have the same leverage as a lot of the older markets (if the Chargers can move, how hard would it be for the Titans?).

The Chargers are a bit of a special case; I believe Alex Spanos has said that something like a third of Chargers fans are from the Los Angeles area. After the NFL ownership approved the relocation of the Rams, with an option to the Chargers and then the Raiders, then the writing was on the wall. The Chargers had to move to block the Raiders from the same as it's reasonable to think that the San Diego market becomes unviable with two teams in Los Angeles. There's also rumblings (on the sports-talk #hottakes circuit, so grain of salt) that the NFL is not happy in general with the Chargers relocation (in spite of its owners approving it 30-2 last year) because the league wanted to find equilibrium with San Diego and the pro-football-apathetic Los Angeles market.

In any case franchise relocations are like running from a bear; you don't have to be the fastest, just the second-slowest. The two questions are, in 2028: 1) Which teams will be in worse positions than the Titans? and 2) Which markets are more attractive than Nashville?

1) is fairly straightforward. The Bills' stadium lease runs out in 2022. Ravens, 2024. Bucs, 2028. Jags, 2030. All of these teams play in city-owned stadiums comparable in age or older than the Car Hole, with similar levels of amenities, in similarly-sized markets. The Jaguars, in particular, are perennial relocation candidates.

2) is more speculative. Which of Nashville's current or future peer cities could host an NFL team? San Antonio and especially Austin are probably out. Portland? (Do hipsters watch pro football?) Salt Lake City is Broncos country. Same for Birmingham and the Saints, besides which Nick Saban is an immortal robot who feeds on the tears of 3-star recruits and JUCO transfers. Hampton Roads, Redskins. Orlando, Buccaneers. Sacramento is right on the edge of the Niners' HMA and they practically play in San Jose. Don't have to worry about Vegas anymore.

So knock on wood, it seems that the Titans may not be in the best position to threaten relocation when their current lease runs out, giving taxpayers a little more leverage in negotiating a better stadium deal, either at the existing one or a new venue. Or perhaps whoever owns the Titans at that time will decide to pay out of pocket and own the stadium outright. Either way it needs to be open-air. Football is supposed to be played outdoors.

[RonCamp]

Quick thought that just hit me:

Eventually, we will need a new stadium.  Considering how scarce land is in the core, and that we just sold to Zach Liff the piece of land in the Gulch that have been the best location for a mass transit hub (something like Denver's Union Station), why not build the new stadium right next to the existing one, closer to East Nashville.  Then build a new rail hub close to the river near/partially replacing the existing stadium footprint?

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, RonCamp said:

Quick thought that just hit me:

Eventually, we will need a new stadium.  Considering how scarce land is in the core, and that we just sold to Zach Liff the piece of land in the Gulch that have been the best location for a mass transit hub (something like Denver's Union Station), why not build the new stadium right next to the existing one, closer to East Nashville.  Then build a new rail hub close to the river near/partially replacing the existing stadium footprint?

From what I understand, the plan all along has been for that parking lot east of the stadium to be the site for the future new stadium.  When they build the new stadium, the current stadium will be torn down and that land will then become parking and the future site for a stadium around 2060....and on and on.

[markhollin]

(I am moving this post over from a different thread so that it fits better with the subject matter on this one). It was a response to whether a retractable roof stadium could host enough events over any given year to be financially viable over the long term)

 

A study would need to be done on other domed NFL stadia and the economic impact they've had, specifically in Indianapolis, Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas, New Orleans, Houston, Arizona, and Detroit.  All but the latter are towns that have strong convention business, and also have the hotel support in their areas to support major events.  But even Detroit's Ford Field hosted one Super Bowl.

A state-of-the-the-art 70,000 seat retractable dome with flexibility to be scaled down to 40,000 for basketball, down to 25,000 (upper deck sealed off) for pro soccer, and other "half house" events could have quite a few uses over the course of any given year:

A minimum of 10 NFL games (2 pre-season and 8 regular season)

Possibly 2 NFL playoff games

2 collegiate football games in the fall (one of the TSU Classics and the UT series)

The Music City Bowl

Super Bowl (if all goes well, could end up in a rotation every 5 years or so like Arizona, Dallas, New Orleans because of their reputations as great host cities)

3 nights of concerts at CMA Week

At least 4 more major concerts

Moto cross event

Monster Truck event

10 days for really huge convention use (would develop a strong relationship with MCC and Opryland Hotel for MAJOR conventions that need 40-70,000 seat capacity for certain gatherings)

20 Major League Soccer games

3 possible MLS Soccer playoff games

2 amateur national soccer matches

1 major religious rally

1 NHL Winter Classic or Winter Heritage game (could be problematic depending on when Music City Bowl is played--need about 5 days to get the ice surface ready)

1 X-Games type event

1 Wrestlemania

2 days of NCAA Basketball Final Four

1 SEC Football Championship game

2 days of Tennessee H.S. Football Championship playoffs

1 day of major rodeo 

TOTAL of 72 events in a really good year, and probably 50 events in a "slow" year.

Nashville has become an entertainment destination city, much like Las Vegas and New Orleans, so it is quite conceivable that major events like these would like to have a city with our ever-growing positive hospitality reputation on their regular docket.

Additionally, there would be other revenue streams from rentals of banquet halls, club level restaurant rentals, stadium tours, Titans locker room tours, Titans Hall of Fame, attached parking garages, etc.

 

[GreenHillsBoy]

I was part of the Nashville Yes in 1998 that helped lure the Oilers to Nashville and have been a season ticket holder ever since, but I am also one of a growing number that  believe the NFL has gotten arrogant and does attempt to hold cities hostage to these billion dollar plus stadiums or threaten to leave.  I believe that if a team wants a new stadium, they must contribute a significant part of the cost and they should not be allowed to hold cities hostage.  I applaud the city of San DIego for telling the Chargers and their billionaire owner to not let the door hit them in the ass and good riddance.  Billionaire Jerry Jones in Dallas built his Taj Mahal to himself on the backs of Arlington tax payers and they have a school system that is in desperate need of money but the billionaire has his monument for the millionaire players to play in, screw the city's real needs, ditto for Atlanta and their new $2 Billion stadium for the billionaire Blank family. 

[titanhog]

5 minutes ago, GreenHillsBoy said:

I was part of the Nashville Yes in 1998 that helped lure the Oilers to Nashville and have been a season ticket holder ever since, but I am also one of a growing number that  believe the NFL has gotten arrogant and does attempt to hold cities hostage to these billion dollar plus stadiums or threaten to leave.  I believe that if a team wants a new stadium, they must contribute a significant part of the cost and they should not be allowed to hold cities hostage.  I applaud the city of San DIego for telling the Chargers and their billionaire owner to not let the door hit them in the ass and good riddance.  Billionaire Jerry Jones in Dallas built his Taj Mahal to himself on the backs of Arlington tax payers and they have a school system that is in desperate need of money but the billionaire has his monument for the millionaire players to play in, screw the city's real needs, ditto for Atlanta and their new $2 Billion stadium for the billionaire Blank family. 

The problem is that there is always a city out there willing to "do what it takes" to bring in a team after another city says "enough."  Then...the city that says "enough" and gives up their team because they refuse to build a new stadium, usually ends up begging to have one again down the road and ends up paying way more than if they had just built the stadium earlier (think Houston...and probably soon-to-be St. Louis...among others).

Until all cities put their foot down, this will continue...sadly.

[MLBrumby]

This seems topical to this discussion... https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/how-stadium-development-is-killing-loyalty-in-american-sports-70505

[Flatrock]

7 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

This seems topical to this discussion... https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/how-stadium-development-is-killing-loyalty-in-american-sports-70505

Interesting read. Sobering. It actually shifted my perspective of San Diego city government and San Diego citizens in regards to the move. 

[claya91]

In case you're at work, this is PG-13 content.

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by claya91

[titanhog]

^^Just another sign that we as Americans MAY have our priorities slightly out of whack.

[CenterHill]

That was awesome. 

 

[21jump]

On 2/2/2017 at 9:24 PM, MLBrumby said:

This seems topical to this discussion... https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/other/how-stadium-development-is-killing-loyalty-in-american-sports-70505

What gets lost in the San Diego stadium plan is, not only did Spanos (Chargers owner) want the city to finance the stadium, he wanted the new stadium to go downtown next to the convention center. The city gov and the residents wanted the new stadium in Mission Valley where Qualcomm Stadium currently sits. San Diegans were not on board with putting a stadium that would sit empty 335+ days a year in a thriving, up and coming part of downtown; especially with the convention center looking at the same location for future expansion for ComiCon.  This would essentially be the equivalent of Adams demanding putting Nissan Stadium's replacement in SoBro next to the Music City Center without even considering keeping the stadium on the East Bank. I believe city voters would have voted yes on measures C (public financing of the stadium) and D (hotel room tax increase to finance stadium) had Spanos pushed for the Mission Valley site.

Sorry for the non-Nashville rambling, I'm not even a Chargers fan, but I live and work in Mission Valley and know a couple of people who are out of jobs now because they do not want to move to LA for this organization. It hits a sour note for me.

[markhollin]

Nissan Stadium and Bridgestone Arena need $477 million in upgrades according to a new study:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/05/18/nashvilles-nissan-stadium-bridgestone-arena-need-477m-upgrades-new-reports-say/101829430/

 

 

[nashvylle]

20 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Nissan Stadium and Bridgestone Arena need $477 million in upgrades according to a new study:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/05/18/nashvilles-nissan-stadium-bridgestone-arena-need-477m-upgrades-new-reports-say/101829430/

 

 

$477 MM in upgrades over the next 20 years

 

[markhollin]

Update on progress regarding soccer stadium at fairgrounds.  Apparently Mayor Barry has increased the city's portion of projected budget from $100 to $150 million.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/05/31/metro-exploring-two-spots-nashville-fairgrounds-mls-stadium/358214001/

 

[MidTenn1]

Now that Vanderbilt has announced they will not be playing any more than possibly two football games a year in a new Major League Soccer stadium, speculation has turned to whether Vandy might focus on improving their current stadium or even building a new one.

According to an article in Vandy's campus newspaper, The Hustler, the are not any such plans either way underway at this time.

Quote

I would say to do something in that stadium, the cost would be so high, that I think there are other things that are more important, and I’ll give you an example,” he said. “We just, last year, finished a brand-new training room. That training room helps every student-athlete that we have over there. I think that was 150 times more important than renovating the stadium that doesn’t help one student athlete in there.”

He understood the amount of interest in seeing Dudley get renovated, but he implored that there are more important things to handle first.

“I would say the concept of renovating a stadium, I know people want to see it, I know people write me about it all the time,” he said. “It has to get in the queue with everything else. I would say to you ‘Am I spending time at night looking at stadium designs and thinking about how I’m going to raise $158 million to do a stadium?’ No. I’m not.”

 

[markhollin]

Bridgestone re-ups for naming rights to the arena up through 2025:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/12/13/bridgestone-tower-headquarters-opens-downtown-nashville/945092001/

[jmtunafish]

43 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Bridgestone re-ups for naming rights to the arena up through 2025:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/12/13/bridgestone-tower-headquarters-opens-downtown-nashville/945092001/

I love that Nashville's arena is named after Bridgestone.  Some clickbait publication a few years ago named Nashville the country's "manliest city" or something like that.  I can definitely say that we at least have the "manliest" name for our arena compared to, say, Amway (Orlando), Quicken Loans (Cleveland), Smoothie King (New Orleans), Vivint Smart Home (SLC) or any number of arenas named for banks, office supply stores, or airlines.  And considering that our arena is one of the busiest in the country and was fawned over in last year's Stanley Cup championship, I think it's fair to say that Bridgestone is getting its money's worth out of this sponsorship.

[MidTenn1]

The University of North Carolina is removing all bleacher style seats and installing all chairback seats (exception for student seating in the end zone) in the Kenan Stadium in Chapel Hill. It is a bold decision, but probably smart as attendance seems to be declining in general around the country and comfort and positive game day experience may be strong incentives to keep fans in the stadium.

From the News Observer...

Quote

The university said it was making the change “to create a more comfortable and fan-friendly game day experience at Kenan Stadium,” goheels.com said in a news release on Monday.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article193563119.html#storylink=cpy

This should be a strategy, Vanderbilt should consider. A smaller, more comfortable stadium with adequate amenities (restrooms, concessions) would attract more locals and possibly help give the team a better hometown feel.

[PillowTalk4]

After seeing posting of photo's of Nissan Stadium in another thread, I couldn't help but wonder if Nashville would ever consider enclosing each end of the stadium and also enclosing the stadium with a retractable roof so that it could truly be a year round stadium and to be more attractive for the Super Bowl and the NCAA Final 4.  If they did do that, I wonder how much would it cost and how long would it take?  I suppose if done in stages, the Titans and TSU could still play there while the construction is underway.

[Nash_12South]

I doubt the existing stadium was built for the added weight of a roof. The retrofitting could be as expensive as starting over. Perhaps you could tear down half the stadium and fast track rebuild that half before the next season and then do the same on the other half. It would be an interesting exercise to see what is possible.