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RFP - 201 Market

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I would prefer a large amphitheater even though a soccer stadium will eventually happen. No, I don't want concerts inside a stadium. The sightlines stink as well as the sound.

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12 hours ago, gvsusean said:

I remember not long ago I said this would be a good idea and I got lambasted (I said a baseball stadium on one and a football/soccer stadium on the Ionia lot). I hope this is it, so people can eat some crow muhahahahahaha (I doubt it will be a stadium though...)

I think I was one of the critics :) and I still don't like large stadiums on riverfronts. But if it's something that can be used by the public when there aren't games going on, I'm down with it. As long as "public use" doesn't include a homeless camp...

*I self destructed my last comment. Guess we'll all just have to be patient...

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2 hours ago, GrSportsGuy said:

I would prefer a large amphitheater even though a soccer stadium will eventually happen. No, I don't want concerts inside a stadium. The sightlines stink as well as the sound.

All large concert tours use stadiums.  Nobody builds 15-50k seat "amphitheatres" 

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14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Well if you remember the big Grand Action plan that came out last December, it was more like a $40 Million 8000 seat stadium that was envisioned (somewhere). But 8000, 10,000, not much difference. 

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/professional-soccer-stadium-and-convention-center-expansion-proposed-for-gr/363460699

Sort of like San Antonio's?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Scorpions-finally-have-their-8-000-seat-field-of-4429684.php

59adede01c80e_201soccerfield.thumb.jpg.ef7e0ac252966e5af84ec6e165cbd4ef.jpg

A stadium like Toyota Field would take up a big chunk of this site.

 

 

 

Not unlike a recent discussion in here regarding baseball stadiums, it depends on how the structure is integrated into the site.  Toyota Field is a rather utilitarian stadium. it's built on a site that's free of the types of constraints that would shape the design of a "downtown" structure.  

If for instance it was integrated into street level, the way that Providence park is in Portland, OR, perhaps with retail, restaurants of some kind, it could be built right up to the sidewalk.  I would also hope that the way something like this would sit riverside would be factored in the design.  Just as you couldn't relocate Fifth Third ball park to a site like this, you can only use something like Toyota Field as a starting point for a soccer pitch.

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Providence Park in Portland would actually JUST fit the site, and leave space to spare. I would still contend that parking would make this a no-go unless a deal is reached to build a massive ramp + liner building on the surface lots to the north of the highway, which isnt that far-fetched.

Image6.jpg.50c5fbeb6d87f8111de057d48c897fe3.jpg

 

As long as the building/complex is built to the street, and hosts non-sports dependent businesses, residential or retail along Market, Then I could warm to this.

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32 minutes ago, Dj Augustine said:

Waht about parking?

 

 

By the time anything would be completed on this site there will be the massive new parking structure south of the Arena.

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2 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Providence Park in Portland would actually JUST fit the site, and leave space to spare. I would still contend that parking would make this a no-go unless a deal is reached to build a massive ramp + liner building on the surface lots to the north of the highway, which isnt that far-fetched.

Image6.jpg.50c5fbeb6d87f8111de057d48c897fe3.jpg

 

As long as the building/complex is built to the street, and hosts non-sports dependent businesses, residential or retail along Market, Then I could warm to this.

FTR Providence Park is a (soon to be with addition) 30k seat stadium. The stands are 3 times larger than what is needed in GR.  But it fits reasonably well into it's neighborhood in downtown Portland.   You walk along the East side of the block where the two fan shops are you can see right into the stadium from the street.  walking past it you'd never know that it seats that many people.  

that building on the south end of the pitch is not part of the stadium.  It's the MAC fitness club.  

also Providence Park has ZERO parking!!!  No lots, no ramp.  NOTHING>  Several bus lines and MAX Train routes intersect at Providence Park.  I was there two weeks ago for 3 soccer matches and took a bus or MAX to each of them.  





 

Edited by scottythe1nonly

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2 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Providence Park in Portland would actually JUST fit the site, and leave space to spare. I would still contend that parking would make this a no-go unless a deal is reached to build a massive ramp + liner building on the surface lots to the north of the highway, which isnt that far-fetched.

Image6.jpg.50c5fbeb6d87f8111de057d48c897fe3.jpg

 

As long as the building/complex is built to the street, and hosts non-sports dependent businesses, residential or retail along Market, Then I could warm to this.

I think there would have to be "room to spare" to win the bid on this, as the city wants to see this be a mixed use site. In addition, the new flood mitigation/control has to be added to this site. Could it be added into the stadium's infrastructure? 

I'm going to trust that at least the local developer knows all of that. :) And the others are very much aware as well. 

Wasn't there talk of eventually building a ramp behind Founders? Where the lot on Bartlett is currently? 

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17 hours ago, gvsusean said:

I remember not long ago I said this would be a good idea and I got lambasted (I said a baseball stadium on one and a football/soccer stadium on the Ionia lot). I hope this is it, so people can eat some crow muhahahahahaha (I doubt it will be a stadium though...)

I want it to be baseball.  I hate fifth third.  it's a dump. 

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Stadiums like that seem like it would be a total waste of limited downtown riverfront. I would much rather see a project embrace the river 

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26 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

Stadiums like that seem like it would be a total waste of limited downtown riverfront. I would much rather see a project embrace the river 

 

based on the requirements set forth by the city this privately funded Commercial development has to do both.  it's not either or

1 hour ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I want it to be baseball.  I hate fifth third.  it's a dump. 

No.  It's not a dump.

it's not architecturally interesting.  but it's well maintained and well run.  

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3 hours ago, scottythe1nonly said:

 

based on the requirements set forth by the city this privately funded Commercial development has to do both.  it's not either or

No.  It's not a dump.

it's not architecturally interesting.  but it's well maintained and well run.  

I've been to alot of minor league games at various parks.  It's clean.  That's about all I can say about it that's positive. I think a roof over the stands off the suites would add alot of charm to the park. 

3 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Stadiums like that seem like it would be a total waste of limited downtown riverfront. I would much rather see a project embrace the river 

what about a baseball stadium where the outfield opens up to the river.  One facing north so you have the skyline in right field,  river in left. Put in a pavilion right there.... 

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5 hours ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I want it to be baseball.  I hate fifth third.  it's a dump. 

Remember that whole "tone" thing we were talking about. :)

Let's all try a little harder. And Whitecaps will NEVER move downtown. Maybe when Grand Rapids is the size of Denver, in 2115. ;) (and baseball won't be around anymore)

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2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

And Whitecaps will NEVER move downtown. Maybe when Grand Rapids is the size of Denver, in 2115. ;) (and baseball won't be around anymore)

Baseball will never die! (but our stadiums might be floating by then...)

 

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2 hours ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

based on the requirements set forth by the city this privately funded Commercial development has to do both.  it's not either or

That's what makes me think it won't be a stadium. Seems like it would leave no room for mixed-use.

I'd like a soccer stadium as much as anyone, but I'm also afraid of having another big structure that doesn't face/feature the river. I still think the Padnos site would be a prefect spot for a soccer stadium. Combine that with a full soccer complex on the old butterworth dump and that area would be a great central location to fill the massive need for fields in and around GR.

Excited to see whatever they present from the RFQ. Still seeking all leakers. :)

Joe

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I noticed this the other day  http://342market.com/

Almost across the street from this development area.

Brought to you by the infamous Danny Beckett Jr. and Beckett Industries.  Formerly from Spearia.

Seems like its claiming to have some connection to WeWork co-working space franchise.

Anyone know anything?  Site is not complete and just could be another fake market test that seems to be their thing.

Edited by EastownLeo

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I think you could fit an 8k seat stadium on the property with  most of the land to spare.  You could fit a soccer pitch on the property running  East-West with an open (no stands) end facing the river and the bulk of the stands/luxery boxes on the north-south sides of the pitch.  Then you could integrate the East end with the street side with retail, restaurants.  

the stands would only need to be half as deep on the sides of the pitch as Providence park pic above., and the East end would be only a third as deep.  Leave the West end open for river views, perhaps with a retractable fence/gate so it could be opened up for other events.    

For reference I put Lubbers Stadium and Houseman up in the corner of the above pic.  Both are more bare bones venues than what a pro stadium would be, but the footprint is close in size .  Lubbers is compact and seats 10k, and housman is a bit larger footprint that seats 8k+.  

Edited by scottythe1nonly

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On 9/5/2017 at 10:39 AM, scottythe1nonly said:

All large concert tours use stadiums.  Nobody builds 15-50k seat "amphitheatres" 

Who said anything about 15-50k seats?  We only get a handful of concerts here in the summer (not counting Meijer Gardens) because acts prefer to play outdoors. This has always been a need and would benefit more than just sports fans. Again, concerts in stadiums suck.

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1 minute ago, GrSportsGuy said:

Who said anything about 15-50k seats?  We only get a handful of concerts here in the summer (not counting Meijer Gardens) because acts prefer to play outdoors. This has always been a need and would benefit more than just sports fans. Again, concerts in stadiums suck.

we only get a handful because we do not have a large summer venue.  Not because stadiums "suck"

 

 

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Something like the Army stadium would be nice. Just a lower bowl of 8,000 seats wrapping around the north, east, and south sides of the field while the west side of the field is open to the river with a pedestrian area on the water. Then have an apartment/condo building rising up on one, two, or three sides of the field.

aerial.jpg

Edited by GRLaker

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1 hour ago, scottythe1nonly said:

we only get a handful because we do not have a large summer venue.  Not because stadiums "suck"

 

 

Yeah, I know. That why I want an outdoor amphitheater. You know, like tons of other cities. Saying stadiums suck for concerts is my opinion.

1 hour ago, scottythe1nonly said:

i get that you like to see concerts at small venues but it doesn't explain why we don't get more major touring acts that ONLY PLAY Stadiums and Arenas over 10k seats

Never said I liked small venues either. I just want a Pine Knob/DTE-type venue.

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2 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

I noticed this the other day  http://342market.com/

Almost across the street from this development area.

Brought to you by the infamous Danny Beckett Jr. and Beckett Industries.  Formerly from Spearia.

Seems like its claiming to have some connection to WeWork co-working space franchise.

Anyone know anything?  Site is not complete and just could be another fake market test that seems to be their thing.

Wow, haven't heard that name in a while. And I don't believe that Danny Beckett Jr is related to the Beckett family (rental homes) that got into a trouble a few years ago. 

I've always thought that building 342 Market was pretty cool. Could be fishing for investors to get it going? 

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