RFP - 201 Market

[Floyd_Z]

Also, with the stage facing east, atendees would be looking into the sun in the west in the evening.

[joeDowntown]

34 minutes ago, Floyd_Z said:

Also, with the stage facing east, atendees would be looking into the sun in the west in the evening.

Yep, all of that was just to show fit. My only thought with the stage near the river is that it could create a bit of a natural flood wall. GRDad is probably correct though, the city skyline framing the stage would be pretty cool (and would prevent being blinded by the sun during the opening acts. :)).

Joe

[GRDadof3]

It would also make sense to put the amphitheater right up by the offramp. That way all of the backstage/mechanical/ancilliary stuff (the ugly stuff) would be next to the highway. Save the riverfront for parks and the Southern half of the site for residential development.  Big park/soccer field in the middle. That'd be cool to have a view of the amphitheater from 12 stories up () with downtown in the background, with the Fulton/Market site finally redeveloped one day. 

In fact, it'd be cool to have a big grassy hill/berm that would provide lawn seating for the amphitheater on one side and lawn seating for a soccer stadium on the other side. 

[Floyd_Z]

23 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

It would also make sense to put the amphitheater right up by the offramp. That way all of the backstage/mechanical/ancilliary stuff (the ugly stuff) would be next to the highway. Save the riverfront for parks and the Southern half of the site for residential development.  Big park/soccer field in the middle. That'd be cool to have a view of the amphitheater from 12 stories up () with downtown in the background, with the Fulton/Market site finally redeveloped one day. 

In fact, it'd be cool to have a big grassy hill/berm that would provide lawn seating for the amphitheater on one side and lawn seating for a soccer stadium on the other side. 

On that note, a hotel would be great too.  

[GRDadof3]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:50 AM, Floyd_Z said:

On that note, a hotel would be great too.  

Do you think with the convention center hotel in the works (assuming), that there's enough demand for another hotel? Would be cool though. 

[GRDadof3]

Done deal. Sewer relocation project will begin this Spring. I think too that the sewer relocation will help with the Fulton/Market site future (potential) redevelopment. Did I read that somewhere early on in this discussion. 

 

https://grbj.com/news/government/city-caa-move-forward-on-201-market-option/

[joeDowntown]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:10 AM, GRDadof3 said:

Done deal. Sewer relocation project will begin this Spring. I think too that the sewer relocation will help with the Fulton/Market site future (potential) redevelopment. Did I read that somewhere early on in this discussion. 

 

https://grbj.com/news/government/city-caa-move-forward-on-201-market-option/

Yep. The sewer relocation will allow development to happen at that site. And I think we'll hear more about the plans soon (this month?). Maybe nothing concrete, but I think we'll understand what's planned for the future.

Joe

[Floyd_Z]

23 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Yep. The sewer relocation will allow development to happen at that site. And I think we'll hear more about the plans soon (this month?). Maybe nothing concrete, but I think we'll understand what's planned for the future.

Joe

I think you're right.  I think MDOT is looking to sell that piece of property thet iown on market as welkl.

[GVSUChris]

Grand Action (2.0) is doing an update of the Market Street corridor with presentations from the design group Populous that they’re working with at the Econ Club lunch today. I’m hopeful we will get to see some concepts today!  

[Floyd_Z]

On 2/20/2021 at 8:27 AM, GRDadof3 said:

Do you think with the convention center hotel in the works (assuming), that there's enough demand for another hotel? Would be cool though. 

I would think so, but who knows what occuoancy rates will be post-covid.  

It would be cool if it was overlooking the amplitheater.  They could definitely jack up their rates whenever there's a show.  I know I'd be willing to pay $500/night+  to be able to see a band from the balcony of a hotel and not have to pay for tickets, fees, overpriced drinks, etc.

[joeDowntown]

Anyone a part of the Economics Club? Populous is doing a presentation today on the amphitheater, Market street and market and Fulton  it’s from 12:30-1:30:

Amber Luther and John Shreve will present conceptual planning recommendations for two riverfront sites in Downtown Grand Rapids; the 201 Market and Fulton and Market sites. This presentation will focus on:

• Future development opportunities to expand and activate the downtown core while maximizing the economic potential of city-owned land.
• Planning concepts for public amenities, mixed-use development, and housing along the Grand River.
• Planning concept for a new large-scale amphitheater in Grand Rapids. 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

Anyone a part of the Economics Club? Populous is doing a presentation today on the amphitheater, Market street and market and Fulton  it’s from 12:30-1:30:

Amber Luther and John Shreve will present conceptual planning recommendations for two riverfront sites in Downtown Grand Rapids; the 201 Market and Fulton and Market sites. This presentation will focus on:

• Future development opportunities to expand and activate the downtown core while maximizing the economic potential of city-owned land.
• Planning concepts for public amenities, mixed-use development, and housing along the Grand River.
• Planning concept for a new large-scale amphitheater in Grand Rapids. 

Joe

Well that's exciting. 

[joeDowntown]

Ok, notes from the Econ Club meeting:

Just a working plan- general concepts (that will continue to be worked on). This is a 15 year plan but momentum with amphitheater and northern sites w/in 5 years.

• Housing would be a mix of market rate and an area for affordable housing (affordable funding fund to help other affordable projects in neighborhoods)
• Big open space on market/fulton that would become multi-use, multi-season “front lawn” of Grand Rapids.
• “Green ribbon” would flow along riverfront and throughout site, with potential pedestrian bridge over 131.
• Amphitheater stage would be close to Market for “back of house access”. Convenient loading/unloading.
• Looking at 12 month activity for all areas:
  • Water features could be skating rinks
  • Amphitheatre could be sledding hill
• Soccer Stadium not on riverfront. Other locations are being considered. Didn’t think stadium was best use for riverfront.
  • Have had conversations with USL - Championship league
  • Getting ownership group together, then site selection
  • “Picking up major steam” and soccer orgs from around the nation have been calling.
• Stacked flood walls would allow accessibility to river.
• Aquarium not being considered on riverfront. Talking to JB Zoo about locating an aquarium there. Already momentum in that direction. But letting JB Zoo lead any effort
• Potential for pedestrian bridge over the river (to west side), under US-131 (to west side) and over 131 (to Market/Fulton).
• All buildings would have active street level. Housing throughout plus hotel
• Parking on-site  Above/Below grade

Images to follow.

[joeDowntown]

Ok, notes from the Econ Club meeting:

Just a working plan- general concepts (that will continue to be worked on). This is a 15 year plan but momentum with amphitheater and northern sites w/in 5 years.

• Housing would be a mix of market rate and an area for affordable housing (affordable funding fund to help other affordable projects in neighborhoods)
• Big open space on market/fulton that would become multi-use, multi-season “front lawn” of Grand Rapids.
• “Green ribbon” would flow along riverfront and throughout site, with potential pedestrian bridge over 131.
• Amphitheater stage would be close to Market for “back of house access”. Convenient loading/unloading.
• Looking at 12 month activity for all areas:
  • Water features could be skating rinks
  • Amphitheatre could be sledding hill
• Soccer Stadium not on riverfront. Other locations are being considered. Didn’t think stadium was best use for riverfront.
  • Have had conversations with USL - Championship league
  • Getting ownership group together, then site selection
  • “Picking up major steam” and soccer orgs from around the nation have been calling.
• Stacked flood walls would allow accessibility to river.
• Aquarium not being considered on riverfront. Talking to JB Zoo about locating an aquarium there. Already momentum in that direction. But letting JB Zoo lead any effort
• Potential for pedestrian bridge over the river (to west side), under US-131 (to west side) and over 131 (to Market/Fulton).
• All buildings would have active street level. Housing throughout plus hotel
• Parking on-site  Above/Below grade

Images to follow.

[wingbert]

I don’t see anything in those plans about a subway to the airport, but other than that, I’m cautiously enthusiastic.  There’s lots to like.  I’m sure things will adjust and change but damn, let’s go.

[joeDowntown]

You can see on the "Development Alternatives" map, places that might fit the soccer stadium (marked with a little stadium). I like the idea of a stadium on the Padnos lot next to Wealthy. It would make a nice bookend development on the west side of the river, and would be a great spot for GVSU (and other colleges) to play.  And the really need to orient the field North/South so the sun isn't a complete disadvantage for evening games.

[GRDadof3]

I like the green ribbon. That's pretty cool. The rest of it seems like similar iterations as to what we've seen for this site before. Get r dun. 

[joeDowntown]

It was a really good presentation. Sounds like they're still working on it and the order development is TBD, but will happen in phases. I agree, the ribbon looks awesome, and I think they should just do it. 

Love reading the MIBiz headline for this. Out of all of the really good information and details, they focused on the fact that the Island could have a zipline (which was kind of tossed out as "one of many possible ideas for adding activities to the site"), and an aquarium, which they talked at length about the riverfront not being a great site, that it was something people brought up enthusiastically, and that Grand Action would let JB Zoo lead, but wouldn't take an active roll in (and that it would be best suited near the zoo). LOL

 

[Cookin_peacocks]

Meetet at the sites with shovels (and beer) to help them get this moving?

[droonus2000]

I’ve been saying for years the JBZ should open a stand alone aquarium. Ideally, we would have moved the zoo by Meijer Gardens and built an aquarium at the current zoo sight. 

 

[walker]

Nice, but where's the monorail?

[Cookin_peacocks]

14 minutes ago, walker said:

Nice, but where's the monorail?

https://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM

 

Have we learned NOTHING??

 

 

[GR_Urbanist]

I'm happy to see them talking, but I would be more excited if the end date wasn't 2041 with no firm start date or concrete plans.

It may not be fair comparison to make, but is this really much different than the original Mystery Project™ at this point (other than having actual money involved)? Lots of envisioning and wish lists, not a lot of certain, and the news articles are showing stuff that we know isnt actually in the works like zip lines and aquariums instead of monorails and hydrogen power plants. LOL!

But the city did agree to sell it, so that's more than nothing. Maybe I'm still a bit jaded from the whole thing a few years back (and the fact that the amazing concept from 2017 have apparently been scrapped). So at this point I dont have a lot of confidence in anything involving that area.

Edited February 25, 2021 by GR_Urbanist

[cstonesparty]

8 minutes ago, GR_Urbanist said:

I'm happy to see them talking, but I would be more excited if the end date wasn't 2041 with no firm start date or concrete plans.

It may not be fair comparison to make, but is this really much different than the original Mystery Project™ at this point (other than having actual money involved)? Lots of envisioning and wish lists, not a lot of certain, and the news articles are showing stuff that we know isnt actually in the works like zip lines and aquariums instead of monorails and hydrogen power plants. LOL!

But the city did agree to sell it, so that's more than nothing. Maybe I'm still a bit jaded from the whole thing a few years back.

Is this in essence the "movers and shakers" resolving the issue that there is a limited amount of space to further develop downtown and setting out a long-range vision for which direction they'd like to see it go?  

[GRDadof3]

48 minutes ago, cstonesparty said:

Is this in essence the "movers and shakers" resolving the issue that there is a limited amount of space to further develop downtown and setting out a long-range vision for which direction they'd like to see it go?  

I'd agree, it's a lot of flash-bang. But major impediments are being removed to make these two sites developable (moving the sewer, moving the city services). I'll be 71 when it's all finished.   When we become snowbirds, we can enjoy it in the warmer months.