RFP - 201 Market

[Allison Slater]

On 3/25/2021 at 8:54 PM, GR_Urbanist said:

Wow! I used to have storage space in that building years ago. Remember it being incredibly creepy. 

I remember going to raves in that building in the mid/late 00s

[joeDowntown]

A county commissioner would like to see the amphitheater built in Sparta instead of the market site:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2021/05/location-of-proposed-grand-rapids-amphitheater-questioned-by-kent-county-commissioner.html

Joe

 

[wingbert]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

A county commissioner would like to see the amphitheater built in Sparta instead of the market site:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2021/05/location-of-proposed-grand-rapids-amphitheater-questioned-by-kent-county-commissioner.html

Joe

 

Biting my tongue on an extended rant, I would only ask if this numbskull even checked with the constituents he supposedly represents before he threw out his “why not Sparta?” nonsense?

[GR_Urbanist]

Utterly predictable future Mlive headline: "Sparta residents come out strongly against amphitheater, citing traffic, noise, crime, and sprawl concerns"

The amount of resources and fuel wasted constructing in that location, and traveling to and from GR where all of the talent and crew will be staying, not to mention the infrastructure to support it like parking, roads, traffic lights, state police, ect., is just absurd just for the chance to plop it in Sparta for lord knows what reason. And yes there will be tons of "opportunistic" development that will arise around it, like fast food joints, gas stations, motels, and private pay parking lots, that will not go over well with the locals.

And for what? Just to put yet another area attraction out all by itself in the burbs that requires you to pay a bunch of money in gas to go to maybe once a season? Something that will be a glorified paperweight all of the other days it isnt being used, serving no other purpose?

[Raildude's dad]

I'm sure he's thinking of  the  former Sparta Rodeo grounds, west of M-37, south of 13 Mile.

[joeDowntown]

I like the way they responded. It's fine to do due diligence on the location (since the county is involved). I just hope it wins out as the best spot and they realize that a strong and vibrant core helps all communities in Kent County.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

He's probably going to use the DTE Energy Amphitheater of a successful rural/remote location. I just feel like Sparta is really far from 90% of the rest of the county. Whereas downtown is within 15 minutes of 90% of the county. They're right in bringing up the DDA tax capture area and how many of those taxes are held by the DDA instead of passing on to the county, which has been a sore spot for some of the commissioners for a long time. 

However, Kent County owes much of its overall growth to the vibrancy of the core downtown area. i.e. many downtown workers have moved to the area and built or bought homes in the suburbs. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

He's probably going to use the DTE Energy Amphitheater of a successful rural/remote location. I just feel like Sparta is really far from 90% of the rest of the county. Whereas downtown is within 15 minutes of 90% of the county. They're right in bringing up the DDA tax capture area and how many of those taxes are held by the DDA instead of passing on to the county, which has been a sore spot for some of the commissioners for a long time. 

However, Kent County owes much of its overall growth to the vibrancy of the core downtown area. i.e. many downtown workers have moved to the area and built or bought homes in the suburbs. 

Sir, please. Around these parts, we call it Pine Knob. Thanks

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cookin_peacocks

[GRDadof3]

7 minutes ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

Sir, please. Around these parts, we call it Pine Knob. Thanks

 I call it Pine Knob too but a lotta youngins don't know what I'm talking about. Saw many great concerts at Pine Knob in the late 80's/early 90's. 

[Khorasaurus1]

4 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Utterly predictable future Mlive headline: "Sparta residents come out strongly against amphitheater, citing traffic, noise, crime, and sprawl concerns"

 

Yup. Ask Clarkston residents how they feel about DTE/Pine Knob.

I actually kind of get the argument for a suburban location. It probably will be dead on most days, and the riverfront site could definitely attract more vibrant 24/7 development. But "suburban location" should mean M-6/Wilson or something like that - somewhere where the infrastructure is basically in place already and development/sprawl is coming regardless of the amphitheatre.

I'm also kind of confused by the County's fiscal position here. I know the DDA captures County taxes, but the County also wouldn't be spending any money on the downtown location- just approving the CAA action. The County doesn't maintain any of the infrastructure at 131/Market - that's all State and City. GR police would handle security. DDA/DGRI would pick up the trash in the parking lot after concerts. Etc   

Meanwhile, if the amphitheatre gets built in a Township (partciularly a rural Township like Sparta), the County is going to be on the hook for all the road improvements. And probably getting asked to help pay to extend sewer and water. And it'll be the County Sheriff directing traffic. And the amphitheater itself won't pay taxes, so any tax revenue would be from fast food and gas stations, which actually might be fiscal negatives, given the aforementioned costs of new infrastructure and services. 

Forgoing hypothetical tax revenue vs paying millions and maybe getting a slight bump in revenue? That choice should be obvious. 

Final thought - all this needs is a majority of the County Commission to vote for it to be downtown, and I would assume the urban commissioners and the "don't put that thing anywhere near my suburban/rural community" commissioners will easily be the majority. 

[walker]

So the city is going to buy the property along the river off Scribner from the county and consolidate all their facilities there that are currently at 201 Market.  Then the Market site can become an amphitheater that will likely be a dead spot except for an occasional concert evening.  Doesn't seem to me to be a particular good use of either river front property.

MLIVE: grand-rapids-poised-to-purchase-14-acres-along-grand-river-paving-the-way-for-proposed-amphitheater

Edited June 18, 2021 by walker

[GR_Urbanist]

I think the hope is that the site will have some retail and residential components to it as well, with the actual amphitheater being an open pubic space during non-event periods. But I agree that it being devoted all to that, and with some cheesy surface lot taking up the rest, would be a complete failure.

At this rate, it may take until 2029 before it gets done, though.

[kwl]

mods, feel free to move this to the most appropriate forum…

Progressive AE has a new office on Ottawa that I was walking past this weekend. I noticed some renderings of an amphitheater that were hanging on the wall. I assumed they were of an existing project, but can’t find it on the Progressive AE website. 
 

Upon further examination, it looks like this is Grand Rapids as your eyes can kind of make out the Amway and JW in the left. What caught my eye is the massive tower that completely blocks out plaza towers. Have these been released yet? Apologies for the horrendous photo quality as it was mid day. Maybe someone can get a better look?

[walker]

Well it took me awhile to figure out your photo and what we are suppose to be looking for.  If I'm right, mostly what we can see is the buildings in the reflection off the window you were looking through to see the rendering.  And being a reflection the buildings are reversed.  Haven't been down there lately but I think Progressive AE then must have moved into either the old Perrigo Printing store front or the one next to it as shown by the arrow in this Goggle Street view screen shot:

So the rendering to which you are referring only shows up faintly.  I can't really make it out but I'm guessing that it might be the Rosa Parks Circle rehab project since Progressive AE is involved with that:

PROGRESSIVE AE: portfolio - monroe center rosa parks circle

EDIT: just noticed that the link describes the original project and not the current do-over.   Don't know if they are involved with  the rehab or not.  In any case I'm sticking with my  guess it's Rosa Parks Circle.  

Edited July 20, 2021 by walker
edited for an additional thought

[GVSUChris]

5 hours ago, walker said:

Well it took me awhile to figure out your photo and what we are suppose to be looking for.  If I'm right, mostly what we can see is the buildings in the reflection off the window you were looking through to see the rendering.  And being a reflection the buildings are reversed.  Haven't been down there lately but I think Progressive AE then must have moved into either the old Perrigo Printing store front or the one next to it as shown by the arrow in this Goggle Street view screen shot:

So the rendering to which you are referring only shows up faintly.  I can't really make it out but I'm guessing that it might be the Rosa Parks Circle rehab project since Progressive AE is involved with that:

PROGRESSIVE AE: portfolio - monroe center rosa parks circle

EDIT: just noticed that the link describes the original project and not the current do-over.   Don't know if they are involved with  the rehab or not.  In any case I'm sticking with my  guess it's Rosa Parks Circle.  

Grand Action 2.0 also has a spot in one of those retail spaces. Perhaps it was a rendering on one of their walls? If so, the amphitheater would make sense. I will walk by today when I’m at work and check it out. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by GVSUChris

[GRDadof3]

9 hours ago, kwl said:

mods, feel free to move this to the most appropriate forum…

Progressive AE has a new office on Ottawa that I was walking past this weekend. I noticed some renderings of an amphitheater that were hanging on the wall. I assumed they were of an existing project, but can’t find it on the Progressive AE website. 
 

Upon further examination, it looks like this is Grand Rapids as your eyes can kind of make out the Amway and JW in the left. What caught my eye is the massive tower that completely blocks out plaza towers. Have these been released yet? Apologies for the horrendous photo quality as it was mid day. Maybe someone can get a better look?

That looks like a vision for the 301 Market Ave site. It even looks like the amphitheater is under the S-curve, and then there are two towers on the Market/Fulton site. There are so many proposals flying around for those two large parcels that I wouldn't get too excited yet. 

You wouldn't get an angle like that of the Amway Grand from Rosa Parks Circle. That's looking basically straight down the river at it.

[walker]

19 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That looks like a vision for the 301 Market Ave site. It even looks like the amphitheater is under the S-curve, and then there are two towers on the Market/Fulton site. There are so many proposals flying around for those two large parcels that I wouldn't get too excited yet. 

You wouldn't get an angle like that of the Amway Grand from Rosa Parks Circle. That's looking basically straight down the river at it.

 

Yeah, I think you're right.  I didn't think to enlarge the photo.  I retract my Rosa Parks Circle guess. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

26 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That looks like a vision for the 301 Market Ave site. It even looks like the amphitheater is under the S-curve, and then there are two towers on the Market/Fulton site. There are so many proposals flying around for those two large parcels that I wouldn't get too excited yet. 

You wouldn't get an angle like that of the Amway Grand from Rosa Parks Circle. That's looking basically straight down the river at it.

I don't know much, but that Fulton Market lot is owned by Amway/Devos' and they really want to put tower(s) there. They just want the parcel south of 131 to announce it's plans first. If the amphitheater is going in, that's the domino they were waiting for. 

 

[joeDowntown]

Look at everyone supersleuthing. I also noticed the CALLISONRTKL logo. Looks like a pretty big International architecture firm (a couple of offices close by; one in Novi, the other in Chicago):
https://www.callisonrtkl.com/projects/

[GVSUChris]

So I walked over from my office and what you saw was in the Grand Action 2.0 office. I tried to take a “better” picture and failed haha. 
 

[Cookin_peacocks]

41 minutes ago, GVSUChris said:

So I walked over from my office and what you saw was in the Grand Action 2.0 office. I tried to take a “better” picture and failed haha. 
 

Those towers are on the south side of 131. How excited should we be by these renderings?

[GRDadof3]

24 minutes ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

Those towers are on the south side of 131. How excited should we be by these renderings?

ProgressiveAE has done a lot of work with Grand Action, not surprising they'd have a proposal for the amphitheater/201 Market site. Wonder if they will be the "official" proposal that Grand Action will present to the public? 

1 hour ago, GVSUChris said:

So I walked over from my office and what you saw was in the Grand Action 2.0 office. I tried to take a “better” picture and failed haha. 
 

That's a lot better. The picture on the left shows how large the amphitheater is envisioned. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

2 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

ProgressiveAE has done a lot of work with Grand Action, not surprising they'd have a proposal for the amphitheater/201 Market site. Wonder if they will be the "official" proposal that Grand Action will present to the public? 

Deleted because I was wrong. Man this has me excited

Edited July 20, 2021 by Cookin_peacocks

[GRDadof3]

1 minute ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

I don't think those towers are 201. It appears to be the same lot as the amphitheater. Am I wrong?

Yes, the towers appear to be on the same parcel as the amphitheater, which is 201 Market. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

12 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Yes, the towers appear to be on the same parcel as the amphitheater, which is 201 Market. 

Yup I was wrong. For some reason, I had convinced myself 201 was the DeVos owned lot next to Charlie's Crab despite that lot being a hot topic here for years.