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orlandouprise

Can Parramore become Orlando's version of Harlem

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A rebirth appears to be taking place with the new OC stadium, planned breweries and West Arts District. How long before it become fashionable to live in parramore? Any high-rise condos in its future? Whatcha think?

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Parramore will ultimately be gentrified the way I see things going. Aside from Creative Village, highrise development in Parramore looks like it is going to be concentrated along Church and Central.

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It's gonna take decades for Parramore to redeveloped into a nice urban community. I probably will be 60 when the area finally transform, and I am 24 now. I feel like that city has not done a good job in gathering stakeholders and putting incentives in place  for developers to buy land and build. What has the city done around the Amway Center? It has been 7 years since the arena has been built, and still no new development has happened. The city owns a lot of land in the community. They should do a better job in marketing it. 

Edited by tc01
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It won't take that long but I will be a while. New development in the CBD is the same price as it is in Parramore. As vacant land disappears in the CBD, more will happen on the west side. 

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More like Brooklyn.  New stadium and sports team moves in, college campus brings young people, hipster businesses follow and take hold with the cheap land, and the character of the neighborhood changes. The city needs to walk a fine line between advancing the neighborhood and gentrification.  A lot of cases where municipalities think they are "helping a blighted area" end up just transforming it into the next new hip neighborhood that prices out the current residents and businesses, suppresses the history, and alienates the long time residents. 
 

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Been talking to a local chef friend of mine. He is starting to see the vision there and we both were talking about the first good chef to take a chance and open something cool there will get support. But I think hiring locals is going to be vital to that project and hopefully whoever is bold enough to do a space there will see that need to train locals and not displace. Something like the Superior Motors project in Pittsburgh that they are working on would be amazing.

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The challenge with the Harlem comparison is that BK has a long and rich history with magnificent buildings to match. 

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On 3/9/2017 at 0:28 AM, tc01 said:

It's gonna take decades for Parramore to redeveloped into a nice urban community. I probably will be 60 when the area finally transform, and I am 24 now. I feel like that city has not done a good job in gathering stakeholders and putting incentives in place  for developers to buy land and build. What has the city done around the Amway Center? It has been 7 years since the arena has been built, and still no new development has happened. The city owns a lot of land in the community. They should do a better job in marketing it. 

Heck, the city subsidized those minority-owned businesses across the street through the entire construction of the Amway Center and then bulldozed the whole building once both stadiums were complete! I believe there is enough evidence out there to believe that building sports venues will not necessarily improve a neighborhood.  That said, OCSC has a unique situation with a completely privately owned building, they actually have a lot of incentive to make the area more palatable and encourage use of their facility.  I'm not sure if there is anything comparable in the entire country.  The next step for the city is incentivizing the right kind of development in the creative village and ensuring some connectivity down Parramore Ave (even if it is stuff that caters to students like cheap food and booze - just keep them on the "wrong" side of I4 so the businesses there can thrive

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1 hour ago, codypet said:

That gas station across from the City stadium is sitting on a gold mine.

Totally screams for a 7-11 redevelopment. :D

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4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Sadly, it no longer sells gas. It was the last gas station between Colonial and Gore unless you go to Colonialtown.

There something I just realized when I read your comment.  I was trying to find the closest gas station and there's that Citgo at Gore and Parramore.  Across the street there was an ABC Liquor.  It closed in Fall 2014.  On street view there's a sign that the nearest locations are 4780 W. Colonial (5.0 miles 15 mins away without taking the toll roads), and 5895 S OBT (4.2 miles away 11 mins away).  They ignore the fact that Curry Ford ABC is 3.1 miles away 12 mins away or worse yet, the SODO ABC is 2.1 miles or 7 mins away by car.  Why would they go to the effort and put locations which are a trek to get to and leave out the two locations nearby?  Heck even the College Park ABC is as close as the Pine Hills one.   I just found that odd.  Its a moot point now as there's a no name liquor store in its place.  I just found it odd. 

Edited by codypet
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There is a liquor store at Mucho in South Eola but the prices are kind of high so I only use it for emergencies. Paul Bracker, former manager at Publix at The Paramount, tried to get a Publix Liquors but was unsuccessful and it's now filled with Sage Dental.

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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Sadly, it no longer sells gas. It was the last gas station between Colonial and Gore unless you go to Colonialtown.

I always knew there weren't many gas stations around Downtown, but didn't realize it was that little. If one were to draw a box bounded by Colonial, Gore, JYP, and Bumby,  these are the edges where the first gas stations around downtown start popping up, further within that, there are no gas stations.

Edited by metal93
typo
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The last operating gas station in downtown proper was Hank's Chevron at Robinson and Rosalind where the Vue now stands. It was really cool an remained a combo gas station/garage to the end.

Fun Fact: The Firestone, now a nightclub, was restored and remained an actual Firestone Tire location well into the '90's. The design was conceived by Harvey Firestone himself.

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

There is a liquor store at Mucho in South Eola but the prices are kind of high so I only use it for emergencies. Paul Bracker, former manager at Publix at The Paramount, tried to get a Publix Liquors but was unsuccessful and it's now filled with Sage Dental.

When this was being floated I was so excited. Not sure why downtown lacks liquor stores.

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3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

There is a liquor store at Mucho in South Eola but the prices are kind of high so I only use it for emergencies. Paul Bracker, former manager at Publix at The Paramount, tried to get a Publix Liquors but was unsuccessful and it's now filled with Sage Dental.

There is a proposal in Tallahassee right now to allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores, but some legislators are concerned about the effect on small stores.

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On 3/9/2017 at 10:46 AM, jack said:

It won't take that long but I will be a while. New development in the CBD is the same price as it is in Parramore. As vacant land disappears in the CBD, more will happen on the west side. 

if that is the case, price-wise, then Parramore is doomed.  and at the rate in which new developments are getting built, which is not fast, then I wouldn't hold my breath.  This isn't NYC or Chicago south of Grant Park.  There isn't a downtown influx of another 20,000 jobs to warrant people moving into Parramore en masse.  I work downtown and there is no way in hell that I would live there with homeless shelters nearby and the OBT and Westmoreland crime ridden corridors nearby.  Living in Parramore is not trendy.

You would literally need to do what they are doing in LA near their CC and LA Live, and literally build out every square block leading to the closest Blue Line station to clean that area up.  This isn;t NYC where you have 3-5 story row house/townhouse plus streetside retail every 50'.  Church Street is 90% commercial- active commercial.  It's really not so bad.

But the County Health Department is around the corner from the Soccer stadium too.  What a disgusting place.  No freaking way I would live near that place.  Noone would.  They should move it to go next to 33rd Street.

^^

wow.  Amway Center has been there 7 years?  Hmmm.  And Amway still hasn't done anything with the property across the street, and I don't think they're gonna do anything for a long while- even after they tear down OPD.  Stadium...check.  Stadium No.2...check.  Citrus Bowl renovation...check.  Church St streetlights...check.  A bar or two...check.  Done.

Somebody please prove me wrong.  Seriously.

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CityView Apts on Church is consistently one of the most popular rental properties in the downtown area due to rental rates, so I do think there are people willing to live in Parramore if the conditions are right.  I am sure there is a developer out there willing to build apt communities marketed to the university crowd.  Parramore seems like the logical place to do this with UCF Downtown rising.

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What would be ideal to be built on the lot in between the church and cityview apts?

wasn't there some sort of proposal a while back for a modern looking building? was it a black history museum?

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1 hour ago, orlandouprise said:

What would be ideal to be built on the lot in between the church and cityview apts?

wasn't there some sort of proposal a while back for a modern looking building? was it a black history museum?

For right now it's the Orlando City supporter commons area (basically tailgating), and a farmer's market should be starting up sometime in the future, if not already. I wouldn't know as I haven't been there in a while. That area can serve as a sort of park space that replaces the one that was were the western half of the stadium now stands. As long as the church remains, I don't really think it's practical to build anything there at the moment. Despite the many empty lots, Parramore has very little park space and I think that's a good place to set aside for park space that would serve both Central and Church street "sports/entertainment corridor."

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the thing that usually gets the ball rolling is cheaper accommodations with a tradeoff.  but if rental rates are the same as the CBD, then the area is doomed.

And regarding Cityview, I only hear bad things about how residents who work downtown quickly try to walk away from there and try to get back before dark.

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From what I last saw, the city wants to keep the southern half of the empty lot as a park, and develop the northern half into another mixed-income complex like CityView. The park is pretty realistic (especially considering the announced farmer's market), but the new apartments are just visioning at this point. 

OCSC-Site-Plans-2.thumb.jpg.9d5269e37d7df43a8461befc147eb316.jpg

On 3/17/2017 at 7:10 PM, orlandouprise said:

wasn't there some sort of proposal a while back for a modern looking building? was it a black history museum?

The proposed building was The Renaissance at Carver Square, which would have included a community theater to replace the historic Carver Theater. The theater would have gone at the corner of Church Street and Parramore Ave, but it sounds like the theater and the overall 11-story development never got its funding together. There was a short thread on this UrbanPlanet about it back in 2008.

Carver_Theatre.jpg.3355dba982e0519898980b400a8b5197.jpg

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:00 PM, jrs2 said:

the thing that usually gets the ball rolling is cheaper accommodations with a tradeoff.  but if rental rates are the same as the CBD, then the area is doomed.

And regarding Cityview, I only hear bad things about how residents who work downtown quickly try to walk away from there and try to get back before dark.

I've not heard these complaints recently.  In fact, I know several people who have lived in CityView over the years and have had good experiences living there.

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