Sentral SoBro/Sixth South Apts., 11 & 12 stories , 299 units, 5,700 sq. ft. of retail, internal garage

[markhollin]

Looking east from Palmer Place at 8th Ave. South:

Looking east from Lafayette at 7th Ave. South:

Looking NE from Lafayette, 1/2 block west of Ewing Ave:

[Armacing]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:14 AM, smeagolsfree said:

From the Four Seasons article in the WSJ, the majority of the interest is coming from empty nesters in the Nashville suburbs, but also from folks moving from other cities. Lots of second residences for wealthy individuals, foreign investors, etc.

That makes sense... sort of.  I would 100% buy into that concept if this were all condo development, but aren't the majority of these units rental?  I'm still having trouble imagining an empty-nester couple in the Nashville suburbs who likely has their house paid off deciding to become a renter...  Seems like a step backwards from a wealth-building perspective, don't you think?.  I'm sure it happens some, but to what extent?  Same logic for foreign investors - would make sense if this was a condo boom like Miami, but as far as I can tell, nearly 100% of new residential units coming online in the past 5 years has been rental.  Or I could be wrong - which would be awesome because I think we need more condos downtown.

[samsonh]

45 minutes ago, Armacing said:

That makes sense... sort of.  I would 100% buy into that concept if this were all condo development, but aren't the majority of these units rental?  I'm still having trouble imagining an empty-nester couple in the Nashville suburbs who likely has their house paid off deciding to become a renter...  Seems like a step backwards from a wealth-building perspective, don't you think?.  I'm sure it happens some, but to what extent?  Same logic for foreign investors - would make sense if this was a condo boom like Miami, but as far as I can tell, nearly 100% of new residential units coming online in the past 5 years has been rental.  Or I could be wrong - which would be awesome because I think we need more condos downtown.

None of these units are rental. All for sale condo and hotel. 

505 was a mix. 

[MLBrumby]

It seems to me that rentals downtown would best be targeted toward the relocated employees (presumably younger) of Amazon and the other big firms. Hopefully we’ll be saying the same soon about the east bank and oracle.

[markhollin]

Looking north from intersection of Lea Ave. and 6th Ave. South:

Looking SE from 6th Ave. South, 1/4 block north of Lea Ave:

Looking south from 6th Ave. South, 1/2 block south of Peabody St:




Looking east from intersection of Lea Ave. and 6th Ave. South:




Looking NE from Lea Ave., 1/4 block east of 6th Ave. South:

Looking NW from Lea Ave., 1/4 block west of 5th Ave. South:

[Armacing]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:27 PM, MLBrumby said:

It seems to me that rentals downtown would best be targeted toward the relocated employees (presumably younger) of Amazon and the other big firms. Hopefully we’ll be saying the same soon about the east bank and oracle.

Here are the categories of downtown renters that I can think of:

1) Students who are paying rent by incurring debt.

2) Workers with decent pay but insufficient credit/savings to get a mortgage, so since they have to rent anyway they decide to rent downtown for the lifestyle

3) Workers who could get a mortgage but decide to rent downtown for the lifestyle

4) Workers temporarily living in Nashville for a limited-time engagement that is too long to spend in a hotel.

Personally, I think category 3 has to be a limited set of people because owning real estate is just so lucrative now, a person would really have to love downtown to give up all that appreciation.  Nashville's downtown residential market is nearly 100% rental.  A quick Zillow search will show you this.  Contrast that to Miami that has hundreds of condo units for sale -- those are the international/investor types of properties and Nashville is really not in that game at all.  

[DDIG]

21 minutes ago, Armacing said:

Here are the categories of downtown renters that I can think of:

1) Students who are paying rent by incurring debt.

2) Workers with decent pay but insufficient credit/savings to get a mortgage, so since they have to rent anyway they decide to rent downtown for the lifestyle

3) Workers who could get a mortgage but decide to rent downtown for the lifestyle

4) Workers temporarily living in Nashville for a limited-time engagement that is too long to spend in a hotel.

Personally, I think category 3 has to be a limited set of people because owning real estate is just so lucrative now, a person would really have to love downtown to give up all that appreciation.  Nashville's downtown residential market is nearly 100% rental.  A quick Zillow search will show you this.  Contrast that to Miami that has hundreds of condo units for sale -- those are the international/investor types of properties and Nashville is really not in that game at all.  

I will say downtown Nashville is becoming more "liveable" provided you are good with the noise and energy it brings. Fifth + Broadway will add a lot, you have the whole foods now, Publix nearby, etc. If I was younger and single I'd enjoy living down there for a bit.

[Armacing]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:11 PM, DDIG said:

I will say downtown Nashville is becoming more "liveable" provided you are good with the noise and energy it brings. Fifth + Broadway will add a lot, you have the whole foods now, Publix nearby, etc. If I was younger and single I'd enjoy living down there for a bit.

Oh, for sure.  I think it would be awesome to live downtown if I were single.  But there's no denying that without the option to buy a condo, I would be sub-optimizing my finances to live downtown.  And that's a shame if you think about it because living downtown should be financially rewarding and not a financial sacrifice.  That's why we need more high-rise condos.  Preferably in the 50+ story range.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Armacing

[thenorthchannel]

I know several folks who own real estate and choose to rent a place downtown, myself included.    It's not as uncommon as you think.    I realize that for many households their home is their biggest source of net worth.  But if your home doesn't generate income it's not an asset, it's a liability.  

[nashvylle]

7 hours ago, Armacing said:

Oh, for sure.  I think it would be awesome to live downtown if I were single.  But there's no denying that without the option to buy a condo, I would be sub-optimizing my finances to live downtown.  And that's a shame if you think about it because living downtown should be financially rewarding and not a financial sacrifice.  That's why we need more high-rise condos.  Preferably in the 50+ story range.

Ritz Carlton in the works

[Bos2Nash]

Condos are also very dangerous from a liability standpoint for developers and architects. My firm has actually been given the direction that unless we have very specific clauses in our contacts that alleviate some of the concern of one potential dispute turning into several hundred disputes we would not really pursue condo developments. Condos account for something like 4% of all fees collected by A/E firms, they account for almost 12% of all claims against them. As a result getting condo developments moving forwards is alot harder. Even if the project is designed as apartments and converted to condos after construction, the CA supreme court has ruled that architects can still be held liable for certain things.

There are soooo many things that play into these developments and condos are honestly one of the most dangerous to design/build/develop. Often times because of these items condos are only developed by high end developers (think Four Seasons) and it makes affordable condos harder and harder to come by. Especially in a state the has outlawed the idea of inclusionary zoning.

On 2/20/2021 at 8:57 PM, nashvylle said:

Ritz Carlton in the works

Ritz Carlton and Four Season are both going to have high-end condos that are not going to be affordable to anyone except the upper income brackets so it really plays into Armacing's argument. The Ritz also is going to include rental apartments. 

[markhollin]

Looking north from intersection of Lafayette St. and Ewing Ave:

Looking east from Lafayette St. at Lea Ave:

[markhollin]

2nd tower crane coming down today.

Looking east from 6th Ave. South at Lea Ave:

Looking east from intersection of Lea Ave. and 8th Ave. South:

[markhollin]

Looking south from Peabody Ave., 1/2 block east of 6th Ave. South:

Looking SE from 6th Ave. South, 1/2 block south of Peabody Ave:

Looking north from Lafayette St., 1/2 block SE of 6th Ave. South:

[Armacing]

On 2/20/2021 at 2:59 PM, thenorthchannel said:

  But if your home doesn't generate income it's not an asset, it's a liability.  

Hate to burst your bubble here, but your home is still an asset even if it doesn't generate income.  It has value and if you need to sell it it can generate cash.  Plus, it is an asset that appreciates (goes up) in value.   So, No, it is not a liability.

[Armacing]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:17 AM, Bos2Nash said:

Especially in a state the has outlawed the idea of inclusionary zoning.

I didn't realize there was a zoning component to this problem, but I'm not surprised.  There is definitely demand for affordable condos downtown, but due to the liability and zoning issues that demand is not being met.  A few people (like thenorthchannel) will make the financial sacrifice to life downtown, but most middle-income people with the means to obtain a mortgage will choose a house in the suburbs.   

I bet the major condo cities like Vancouver and Miami have these same problems as well, but they have a large number international investors who fall into the upper-income bracket.  Seems hard to imagine that Nashville would ever see condo development on that scale given the mainly domestic nature of Nashville tourism and culture. 

I think the path forward is for smaller and smaller individual condo units.  I would like to see a high-rise condo where most units are below 250 sqft.  

[smeagolsfree]

On 2/20/2021 at 2:59 PM, thenorthchannel said:

I know several folks who own real estate and choose to rent a place downtown, myself included.    It's not as uncommon as you think.    I realize that for many households their home is their biggest source of net worth.  But if your home doesn't generate income it's not an asset, it's a liability.  

It depends on how much you owe on it. If you are underwater in the home then it is a liability, but if you have equity, then it is an asset.

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, Armacing said:

I didn't realize there was a zoning component to this problem, but I'm not surprised. 

Metro actually has a line item in the bonus height chart for affordability, but the state law says affordable housing cannot be incentivized like that. 

[Armacing]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:41 PM, Bos2Nash said:

Metro actually has a line item in the bonus height chart for affordability, but the state law says affordable housing cannot be incentivized like that. 

Well then we just need to get the state legislature to pass a law saying that cities cannot pass zoning ordinances that limit the height of buildings!   I honestly can't think of a single location anywhere in Nashville where I would be unhappy about a 50-story tower popping up.

[thenorthchannel]

On 3/5/2021 at 9:12 AM, Armacing said:

Hate to burst your bubble here, but your home is still an asset even if it doesn't generate income.  It has value and if you need to sell it it can generate cash.  Plus, it is an asset that appreciates (goes up) in value.   So, No, it is not a liability.

More nuance to both of our brief statements, ill give you that. It is a question with a number of viewpoints, easily accessible via google.  I dont care to change your mental model, though I encourage the young aspiring investors  on our message board to research the question 'is my home an asset?'  

Edited March 7, 2021 by thenorthchannel

[markhollin]

Looking east from Lafayette St. 1/2 block SE of 7th Ave. South:

Looking north from intersection of Lafayette St. and Ewing Ave:

[Bos2Nash]

I had to go into my office last week for a meeting and this one really surprised me with how much of an impact it has on the Lafayette corridor when looking from the KVB roundabout.

[markhollin]

Looking south from 6th Ave. South, 1/2 block south of Peabody St:

Looking north from intersection of Lea Ave. and 6th Ave. South:

Looking east from intersection of Lea Ave. and 6th Ave. South:




Looking NW from Lea Ave., 1/2 block east of 6th Ave. South:

[markhollin]

Looking east from Lafayette St. 1/4 block east of 7th Ave. South:

Looking NE from Lafayette St., 1/4 block east of Lea Ave:

[markhollin]

Looking south from alley between 5th and 6th Aves. South, 1/4 block south of Peabody St:

Looking south from alley between 5th and 6th Aves. South, 1/2 block south of Peabody St:




Looking south from alley between 5th and 6th Aves. South, 1/4 block north of Lea Ave:




Looking north from Lea Ave., 1/4 block east of 6th Ave. South:

Looking north from Lafayette St., 1/4 block east of 6th Ave. South: