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On 5/18/2023 at 10:11 PM, kayman said:

Social district applications have been submitted for various areas of Uptown,  SouthEnd, Lower SouthEnd aka LoSo, and Plaza-Midwood to the CoC. However, Charlotte is a huge operation compared to Raleigh with a council-manager form of government i.e., bureaucratic minutia. So don't expect quick moves like a mayor-council government, i.e., a mayoral executive order, which would be instantaneous for such large municipalities in other states. 

I think Raleigh and Greensboro also have a council-manager form of government. Both seemed to move swiftly on getting social districts set up. Is the Charlotte City Council just overthinking things rather than voting on this like Raleigh and Greensboro did in a timely manner? 

Edited by CLT2014
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14 hours ago, Boricua said:

Hey Kayman so what kind of city government would you like in Charlotte? Strong mayor? Mayoral veto? Council president? 4 year council terms?

I just left Casablanca, Rabat, and Tangier. There were no social areas for alcohol (and usually no alcohol). It was still beautiful, fun, and the women were exceedingly lovely without drinking. But yea, social areas are still better. The opposite sex always looks better after a few drinks.  In some cases, the same sex ((just not my thing).  Last thought, if everyone just takes their drinks and goes outside and walks wherever they desire, there could be thousands of us, and we can overpower law enforcement.  Is anyone game for this endeavor? I thought not. 

Edited by Larry Singer
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On 5/22/2023 at 9:56 AM, CLT2014 said:

I think Raleigh and Greensboro also have a council-manager form of government. Both seemed to move swiftly on getting social districts set up. Is the Charlotte City Council just overthinking things rather than voting on this like Raleigh and Greensboro did in a timely manner? 

Raleigh and Greensboro are both nearly half and third smaller municipalities in size respectively.  There's are also way more dynamic pieces & environments within the municipal limits of Charlotte compared to those other cities.  That's like asking why Atlanta and New Orleans are able to do something when Houston cannot.  Ironically, all three are strong mayor-council governments but both Atlanta & New Orleans are significantly smallest in size municipal sizes & government structures than Houston's.

Edited by kayman
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Has a study ever been like this in Charlotte a study on vacant land in the city limits?

Look at Dallas and this study.  They could build 100,000 new apartments on the vacant land currently in the city.  Even half that number is staggering.    We know we have some vast swaths of vacant land uptown and pockets in other areas too. 

https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/rental-market/market-snapshots/dallas-housing-potential/

and Charlotte land area is just slightly smaller than Dallas but Dallas has higher population density.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/charlottecitynorthcarolina,dallascitytexas/PST045222

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  • 2 weeks later...

I can’t think of many cities that haven’t permanently converted to that post pandemic. Charlotte seemed to never join the bandwagon. I mean. I recall a shabby one at Latta’s but. Eh. 

But yes. Tryon & College should definitely have those. Take a lane from college for wider sidewalks. And make big protected bikelanes on Tryon. Tryon Street needs a big make over. Wider sidewalks & a new capital improvement TLC to make it more stroll-able. Bring some rail trail to Tryon Street. It feels a little too corporate & sterile post pandemic.  

I know some of y’all are cheesy with ideas on how to make Charlotte have a unique attraction and I’ve said it for years. I’ve never seen a skyline with so many different colors. I think it’d be cool to make that an attraction - the lights of the skyline. It’d be cool to have a rail trail version on Tryon but maybe have a theme based on lights. In fantasy theory, people would walk along Tryon with expanded sidewalks for more pocket parks and activation that is light themed. Work with the stakeholders of uptown to continue the nice varied lights, maybe even go bolder. Maybe encourage owners to add more lights to the base of their buildings. 
 

I dunno. It’s odd but unique. A Ferris wheel is not. There’s on in DC, Atlanta, Ocean City, Myrtle Beach alone…. But anyway. That’s my little fantasy idea. 

 

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I know it's "crazy talk"  but please, please - for once be bold and just close Tryon (other than for early am deliveries and such). 

When we personally finally gave up on that idea happening in our lifetime I also moved out of downtown. It's not at all compelling and thus it didn't take much for the few downsides in living there to overwhelm the upside.

Pedestrian Tryon could've made it compelling and really quickly. Heck, even my 90+ yo mom used to complain how dead it is most nights compared to our 2 previous DT in Burlington then Denver. :⁠-⁠)

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9 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I know it's "crazy talk"  but please, please - for once be bold and just close Tryon (other than for early am deliveries and such). 

When we personally finally gave up on that idea happening in our lifetime I also moved out of downtown. It's not at all compelling and thus it didn't take much for the few downsides in living there to overwhelm the upside.

Pedestrian Tryon could've made it compelling and really quickly. Heck, even my 90+ yo mom used to complain how dead it is most nights compared to our 2 previous DT in Burlington then Denver. :⁠-⁠)

You moved out because they didn't close off Tryon?

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On 6/4/2023 at 4:06 PM, QCxpat said:

Great catch @KJHburg  It's no wonder the Airports Council International recently ranked Charlotte Douglas the 7th busiest airport worldwide for arrivals and departures. 

According to reporting by WFAE 90.7, Charlotte's NPR news source, "Last year alone, CLT handled 505,589 flight arrivals and departures.  CLT served over 48M passengers last year, up 10% from 2021."

"Here are the top 10 airports by takeoffs and landings in 2022:

1.  Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (724,145)
2.  Chicago O’Hare International Airport (711,561)
3.  Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (656,676)
4.  Denver International Airport (607,786)
5.  Harry Reid International Airport (581,116)
6.  Los Angeles International Airport (556,913)
7.  Charlotte Douglas International Airport (505,589)
8.  Miami International Airport (458,478)
9.  John F Kennedy International Airport (448,847)
10. Istanbul Airport (425,890)"

"According to the North Carolina Department of Transportation, CLT contributed $32 billion dollars to the state's economy in 2021."  "As the airport continues to draw more passengers, CLT will continue its “Destination CLT” project through 2035.  Next month construction will begin on the fourth parallel runway, which is scheduled to be completed by 2027."

Links:   https://www.wfae.org/charlotte-area/2023-05-31/charlotte-named-the-7th-busiest-airport-in-the-world

https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/charlotte-douglas-ranked-as-7th-busiest-airport-in-the-world/275-8fdcd941-3c6b-4b54-b8e0-b43b34f26ac2

?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amaz

Image - WFAE Charlotte 9

 

51 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

You moved out because they didn't close off Tryon?

Sorry to quote the top part I'm having some kind of issue with the buffer.

Well yes and no. It does sound silly on the surface right?

It was before they even did the trial. I was talking to planning folks doing surveys and they were telling me uptown was so great and they needed to focus on other areas now. I disagreed saying it's a relative wasteland nights and weekends compared to cities I like. They didn't agree, fine. But I knew then we weren't going to move fast enough to make it worth living there.

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6 hours ago, elrodvt said:

 

Sorry to quote the top part I'm having some kind of issue with the buffer.

Well yes and no. It does sound silly on the surface right?

It was before they even did the trial. I was talking to planning folks doing surveys and they were telling me uptown was so great and they needed to focus on other areas now. I disagreed saying it's a relative wasteland nights and weekends compared to cities I like. They didn't agree, fine. But I knew then we weren't going to move fast enough to make it worth living there.

We left for several reasons:  Looking for more green space, too noisy (we're not really that used to noise) and felt like the surcharge tax on residential folks living uptown was a message, however small, that uptown is not encouraging of uptown living after all.  Little things do make a difference and I'm sorry to hear the folks you talked with don't see that.

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I just went to Culpeper and Warrenton for the night. In Warrenton they've put many on street platforms for outside dining on the main street. It's nice and it's surprising that still isn't happening here. It went away after the trial on Tryon right? Why is this?

Big bike lanes on recently repaved streets too. It's almost like they have a downtown vision which they're actually trying to execute.

Culpeper has a fun little downtown area too.

It's depressing coming back on 29 as it's very clean in VA then you hit the NC border and there's so much debris on the sides of the road. Also wonder why that is. I don't think either state is using convict labor for that anymore but could be wrong.

Once you learn the right lane is *always* the passing lane driving there is low stress. Light traffic. Unless the left lane folks drives you crazy like it does me.... The more rural the area is in the southeast the more people feel they need to police the speed by blocking the left lane. It's weird. I wonder how many accidents a year a people swerving around them.

 

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12 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I just went to Culpeper and Warrenton for the night. In Warrenton they've put many on street platforms for outside dining on the main street. It's nice and it's surprising that still isn't happening here. It went away after the trial on Tryon right? Why is this?

Big bike lanes on recently repaved streets too. It's almost like they have a downtown vision which they're actually trying to execute.

Culpeper has a fun little downtown area too.

It's depressing coming back on 29 as it's very clean in VA then you hit the NC border and there's so much debris on the sides of the road. Also wonder why that is. I don't think either state is using convict labor for that anymore but could be wrong.

Once you learn the right lane is *always* the passing lane driving there is low stress. Light traffic. Unless the left lane folks drives you crazy like it does me.... The more rural the area is in the southeast the more people feel they need to police the speed by blocking the left lane. It's weird. I wonder how many accidents a year a people swerving around them.

 

This is BS, just depends on when you travel between the two states as to which one has completed the most recent debris removal.., I know that route well.

I also think trying to compare downtown Charlotte to “charming” small downtowns is silly.  It’s a booming sunbelt city that has experienced different eras of growth, so expecting ma/pa shops with cobblestone streets ain’t happening.  
 

I think Richmond is rather urban but downtown or the Central Business district is a 9-5 thing for the most part…it’s the adjacent neighborhoods and other areas that have vibrancy.  From my perspective, the same thing is happening in Charlotte.

I also think it’s been some time since experiencing where you lived before, so the “bad” memories have a tendency to fade away…quite common; things such as bad drivers, etc.   Most times, if people move back to a place they constantly romanticized after leaving is “my, the place has changed”. Not really…
 

 

Edited by Durhamite
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Thread title: learning from other places

Question 1:Why was 29 clean in 1 state and not the other? 

Aside (Comment was from others in car cause I make that drive a lot and don't notice anymore. My mom is in Gainesville and my dad was in Culpeper. Plus I just enjoy the drive up 29. It's scenic and I never seem to hit much traffic. So much nicer than my typical trips on 77,85 or 95.i would guess it's dangerous though. Going 70 over hills and not limited access would seem to be a recipe for disaster. )

I wonder about convict labor and afterwards, thinking to myself, I wonder about those adopt a mile programs. Do we even have those here? 

response: that's bs sometimes VA is dirty too

learning 0

BTW, I haven't been there lately but everytime I drive down billy graham from the airport I think at least we could keep this entry into the city clean as it's appallingly polluted. 

2: why can these towns pull off outdoor seating on their main drags and large bike lanes on f what appears to be all roads recently paved. (Nothing about "charm" )

response: we're not ever going to be charming.

learning: can I use negative numbers here? 0

 

3: rural VA drivers enforce speed limit by blocking passing lane and it drives me nuts.

response: nothing to do with anything I guess... Maybe your saying people drive the same in the northeast and co as here? 

I go back to the places I'm from quite often and the driving styles are very different. 

learning: 0

 

People who can't take any questions about why one state is doing something good which we aren't doing are part of the problem. They drive complacency and possibly shouldn't post or read  this thread.

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weekend trip to Greensboro and its downtown.  Nice city parks and South Elm St is full of locally owned shops and restaurants.  Because they kept the smaller older buildings.  Surprising amount of apartments and condos in smaller projects all around downtown.   Their Carolina Theater is huge and active and already restored along with 2 others I saw downtown including one that is Community arts theater.   Downtown Greensboro is really a people scale downtown.  Sure they have a few high rises mainly at the north end of Elm.  It was quite bustling midmorning on a Saturday.  

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On 6/11/2023 at 10:45 PM, elrodvt said:

Looks like a decent job of preservation or is that what you chose to photo? In any case nice pics!

I hope they don't reflect your Saturday bustling downtown though. :⁠-⁠)

I avoid getting people in the photos but I thought it was fairly busy.  And for about 5 blocks south of the high rise core of office towers are smaller more historical buildings along Elm St south.  

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On 6/9/2023 at 2:28 PM, elrodvt said:

Thread title: learning from other places

Question 1:Why was 29 clean in 1 state and not the other? 

Aside (Comment was from others in car cause I make that drive a lot and don't notice anymore. My mom is in Gainesville and my dad was in Culpeper. Plus I just enjoy the drive up 29. It's scenic and I never seem to hit much traffic. So much nicer than my typical trips on 77,85 or 95.i would guess it's dangerous though. Going 70 over hills and not limited access would seem to be a recipe for disaster. )

I wonder about convict labor and afterwards, thinking to myself, I wonder about those adopt a mile programs. Do we even have those here? 

response: that's bs sometimes VA is dirty too

learning 0

BTW, I haven't been there lately but everytime I drive down billy graham from the airport I think at least we could keep this entry into the city clean as it's appallingly polluted. 

2: why can these towns pull off outdoor seating on their main drags and large bike lanes on f what appears to be all roads recently paved. (Nothing about "charm" )

response: we're not ever going to be charming.

learning: can I use negative numbers here? 0

 

3: rural VA drivers enforce speed limit by blocking passing lane and it drives me nuts.

response: nothing to do with anything I guess... Maybe your saying people drive the same in the northeast and co as here? 

I go back to the places I'm from quite often and the driving styles are very different. 

learning: 0

 

People who can't take any questions about why one state is doing something good which we aren't doing are part of the problem. They drive complacency and possibly shouldn't post or read  this thread.

Lol, you have a propensity to "sugar coat" other places when comparing them to Charlotte and NC.  There's really nothing to learn from your post, crazy and rural back wood drivers are in rural parts of every state (0 learning); cities, etc have trashy and clean areas (0 learning).  Charlotte is not some charming town  (correct) with Sheriff Taylor and Aunt Bee waving at passing travelers (0.10% learning).  I get where you're going on part 2 but that's better suited for neighborhoods, etc, or a secondary street in the downtown area.  As I stated, Richmond, VA is a good comparison.  It's usually raved about as a decent mid-sized urban city with elements of old historic charm in areas, but not in the primary business district.   I just don't see Charlotte pulling off "charm" or "cool" in the Center City area being more of a business district...maybe one of the off-the-beaten path Ward streets or nearby.  Even in Durham, which I wouldn't call "charming" but probably better defined as a "cool" vibe in downtown and adjacent areas; it was easier to do.  I think it's easier to pull off these vibes in smaller cities that don't have huge surges of day workers in their business districts.

My comparison really is downtown Durham and uptown Charlotte since I work in both places.  I don't see Tryon St. ever being presented the same way as Main St. in Durham.  I'm struggling to figure out if Charlotte should copy Atlanta, Houston or Dallas' downtowns....pro or con, facts are facts, those are the mentors.  So, what are the best parts of downtown (or midtown) Atlanta, Houston or Dallas that makes since for Charlotte?  

Adopt a highway is still a thing.  My youngest and friends (a pack of seniors in the RDU area) wanted to go to Carowinds last week, so I dropped them off and headed uptown to work.  I will say that parts of the Carowinds area and infrastructure could use some sprucing up.  I recall when that place in opened the 70s , I was in elementary school and we went there every year and loved the cool monorail, it was well kept..it's been a while since I got to that part of South Charlotte.

Edited by Durhamite
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I lived in the fan and loved it but agree on Richmond in general. I admit the driving part was off topic but damn it drove me crazy up there.

Why are we supposed to not learn from places outside other southern cities? Makes for a low bar. I agree CLT isn't trying for charm, other than the horse carriage guys but I never said anything about charm. I want blocks without cars or at least remove parking and expand sidewalks and grade separated bikes.

I guess we just don't agree on the topic of this thread. If it's to learn from other places and not compare us to other places then I don't get your point at all. Why would I pick negatives from another city when posting what I think Charlotte could learn from. Well I suppose if it's a fail and we're trying it that would make sense but I didn't think of cases like that 

I think there are a lot of people with a knee jerk negative reaction to suggestions to improve Charlotte. This attitude is contrary to improvement.

I lived in arguably the heart of uptown, on Tryon Street, for years. So your 9-5 impression of the great culinary options in the fantastic overstreet mall may be a bit less informed than you believe. LOL.

Before that I lived in 2 very vibrant downtowns. Yes, that makes me easy to disappoint.

Do you live in a dense urban area? Have you ever? That is what I'm trying to learn from and want here. If that's not your goal we're never going to agree. 

Edited by elrodvt
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1 hour ago, Durhamite said:

I will say that parts of the Carowinds area and infrastructure could use some sprucing up.

Recently funds were finally approved for improvements to the Carowinds Blvd/I77 intersection.  Not sure how far away from 77 any beautification might occur.

I really hope that after a few more years of the park being expanded we'll see enough of a critical mass of visitors to the area to spur ancillary entertainment options.  A huge miniature golf  spot with a mountain or pirate ship would be really cool.  Or maybe an interactive arcade/VR place.  The kind of stuff that would convince a visiting family to hit up the park on one day and then check out the other smaller options on a second.  I think an overhaul of Carowinds Blvd would probably help that kind of stuff along.

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LA opened its Regional Connector today. Regardless of what city it is in, I am always excited when a new subway segment opens in the US. 

It's only two new stations (the third station, Little Tokyo/Arts District replaced a station that used to be at street level) but the segment will drastically reduce the need to transfer between different lines.

Edited by LKN704
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Just back from the massive Atlanta metro area.  Since it is over twice as big as metro Charlotte you see and feel it in traffic, congestion, skylines etc. 

I was curious when metro Atlanta was the size of metro Charlotte today back in the mid 1990s or about 28 years ago.    History of metro Atlanta growth https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22922/atlanta/population#:

I will say they have lots of mixed use districts around the metro area from the larger ones like Perimeter Center area and the Cumberland Galleria Battery area of Cobb County.  Downtowns of the little towns and not so little suburban towers have all been reinvigorated into little walkable downtowns from little Acworth to larger suburbs like Alpharetta and Roswell.  

When your suburban edge cities have 400-500 foot high towers you have multiple skylines.  When I drive around there it reminds me of Los Angeles no wonder so much of the movie and tv production industry feels at home there.  

They just broke ground on their first Bus Rapid Transit line  (they have quite a few planned)   this is the one that just broke ground this week.  https://www.itsmarta.com/summerhill.aspx

https://www.itsmarta.com/brt.aspx    Charlotte needs to get behind some BRT and build it to connect to the light rail.  

that 420 foot tall TKE elevator test tower is something else at the Battery.  cranes up at the new Truist Bank Securities which is moving from Buckhead to the Battery and will overlook its namesake ballpark.  (talk about branding) 

Anyway I prefer Charlotte's size to Atlanta metro but the key is living close to where you work and having up to date traffic apps or living near transit lines.  

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