Triangle Economic News

[15895]

Some Raleigh posters are saying its just a call center, the TBJ is paywalled and  I see no other articles. Can someone clarify if this is more than a call center? 

Edited May 15, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD

[urbanlover568]

23 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Some Raleigh posters are saying its just a call center, the TBJ is paywalled and  I see no other articles. Can someone clarify if this is more than a call center? 

You are correct.   

 

Redacted

Edited May 16, 2018 by mpretori

[KJHburg]

Look at the Austin jobs and that is what the model is like.  Sure there are customer service aspects, sales, but also hardware and software engineering jobs, data analytics.  They have over 6000 employees in Austin and they are not all answering the phone all day.  Just as Wells Fargo calls it huge 2 million square feet office on Harris Blvd the Customer Information Center it is a not a call center with 10,000 employees.  There are many banking and tech  functions there.  

Here it is from Apple itself  read what it says initially it will be technical support center but that is what they said in Austin too. 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/01/apple-accelerates-us-investment-and-job-creation/

another quote from the article 

""But should a North Carolina win be announced, it would be “huge,” he says, calling it “one of the largest IT projects in economic development.”  “The average salary could approach $75,000 to $100,000 annually,” he predicts. “The multiplier effects are enormous, everything from the region’s housing market to retail to the construction industry to real estate … it all gets an enormous lift.”""

Here is what Bloomberg has to say about it and look at some of the cities they said would work for Apple's new campus

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-apple-new-campus/

Edited May 16, 2018 by KJHburg

[Isaac]

Article states that Apple is looking at the intersection of Davis Drive and 540

[ctl]

Call center jobs aren't the best, but generally they're better than working at Walmart -- especially call center jobs that require technical skills. And they represent true additions to the local economy, whereas job growth at one retailer often comes at the expense of another retailer (a zero-sum game).  And the call centers do require management personnel, IT support, etc although sometimes the IT support comes from another site.  And lastly, if the site proves to be useful as a call center, it's likely to be expanded. Look, when IBM first came here, they didn't bring down 10,000 people from NY in the first year. Likewise, when Nortel first came here, they didn't bring down 10,000 people from Canada in the first year. Likewise Cisco, GSK, etc. Those RTP sites grew and grew after they were planted. We'd all like to have a big-bang announcement that creates 5,000 highly-paid positions immediately (and maybe that will happen with Amazon HQ2). But getting a call center from Apple would be a great start.

Edited May 16, 2018 by ctl

[KJHburg]

Apple promised in Austin to create 3000 additional jobs in 2012 in the next 10 years in addition to the 3000 jobs already there.  By 2018 they employed over 6000 in Austin. 

If Apple chooses RTP this will be great for Apple does keep their promises and exceeds them.  

Here is a view of their campus in Austin. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/blog/real-estate/2014/02/apples-austin-campus-takes-shape-photos.html

found this too their incentives agreement with city of Austin average salary after the jobs added was to be 73,000

https://austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Redevelopment/CH_380_Agreements/Apple_Eco_Dev_Agreement.PDF

 NC needs to land this and hope their great experiences at Triangle universities with Duke grad as the CEO and NC State as the COO really comes into play here.  They know the talent that comes out of those schools as well as the other NC colleges and universities. 

[Green_man]

Suburban office park.  Sigh.  The site in question at 540 and Davis Dr... possibly within 2  miles of a commuter train stop.  I guess there's hope some employees might use that and a bus/shuttle?

[Jolly Knave]

Agreed with Green Man.  Chatham Park, RTP, even North Hi...sorry MIDTOWN, Sprawleigh strikes again.  I love to see Raleigh and Durham developing, but sprawl is without a doubt my biggest pet peeve.  We won't rest until every blade of grass is paved over with bland office parks and cookie cutter housing.  Apple looking at Davis Dr?  Seriously?  Meanwhile, downtown Raleigh is probably making way for another airport Hampton Inn with 50 shades of beige.  Neat!

[Jones_]

At this point, perhaps we need to be more concerned with making RTP into a proper urban construct, and properly connecting it and integrating it into the surrounding cities. The neighboring municipalities have more or less grown up to its boundaries...at this point it's not so much sprawling out more, as it is heaping more stuff into a poorly designed area. It's become 'dense suburban' in my mind....still disconnected, not walkable, single use. Which is the opposite of 'low density urban', which is say, Oakwood. Connected. Walkable. Mixed Use.  Free your minds from density=urban. 

[KJHburg]

Well Apple is looking for a 4 million square foot campus according to Washington Business Journal in looking at several sites in Northern VA outside of DC.  Apple is probably going with a suburban campus as they  have  in California or one in Austin.  However this is a not a call center (that is an aspect of it of course) but it is a lot more.  4 Million sq feet is huge!   

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/05/16/northern-virginia-could-get-a-bite-of-the-apple.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-05-16&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1526499836&j=81623901

So Northern Virginia seems to be the chief competitor for RTP.  Their housing costs are out of sight compared to the Triangle and just about everything else is cheaper in NC.     

This could be for 20,000 jobs according to the Post.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/its-not-just-amazon-apple-quietly-explores-northern-virginia-for-20000-jobs/2018/05/16/1c66b3b0-5566-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0b288341b654

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by KJHburg

[ctl]

RTP has its place. Not all growth can or should go to DTR or DTD. A revitalized RTP is good for the area. And to a company like Apple that isn't HQ'd in downtown SF or downtown SJ (yes, SJ does have a downtown), RTP looks very familiar... as it did to Cisco. Jones_ is correct: RTP is just another set of  historically interesting but currently irrelevant boundary lines in what is becoming continuous development across Wake, Durham, and soon eastern Chatham counties. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by ctl

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Maybe this will help push the light rail project as well as the RTP transit hub?

[urbanlover568]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Well Apple is looking for a 4 million square foot campus according to Washington Business Journal in looking at several sites in Northern VA outside of DC.  Apple is probably going with a suburban campus as they  have  in California or one in Austin.  However this is a not a call center (that is an aspect of it of course) but it is a lot more.  4 Million sq feet is huge!   

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/05/16/northern-virginia-could-get-a-bite-of-the-apple.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-05-16&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1526499836&j=81623901

So Northern Virginia seems to be the chief competitor for RTP.  Their housing costs are out of sight compared to the Triangle and just about everything else is cheaper in NC.     

This could be for 20,000 jobs according to the Post.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/its-not-just-amazon-apple-quietly-explores-northern-virginia-for-20000-jobs/2018/05/16/1c66b3b0-5566-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0b288341b654

 

 

After how Seattle took Amazon behind the woodshed, I don't see them going there. As for housing, NOVA is far more expensive than RDU in terms of Taxes and standard of living. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by mpretori

[KJHburg]

Lets hope we are the bride not the bridesmaid look at this story about Apple and RTP   $130,000 average salary 10,000 jobs!  https://www.wral.com/north-carolina-apple-negotiating-deal-on-triangle-campus-second-site-in-cary/17558985/

Say a prayer this would be biggest deal  in NC history bar none! 

[RALNATIVE]

6 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Lets hope we are the bride not the bridesmaid look at this story about Apple and RTP   $130,000 average salary 10,000 jobs!  https://www.wral.com/north-carolina-apple-negotiating-deal-on-triangle-campus-second-site-in-cary/17558985/

Say a prayer this would be biggest deal  in NC history bar none! 

Sounds like it may be a done deal!

Edited May 17, 2018 by RALNATIVE

[KJHburg]

^^Anything can happen of course but this does sound very promising and this and I hate to use the word is a transformational project for the entire Triangle region as their employees will live all over the area.  Great for universities too. 

[Justin6882]

And good news (to me at least) that it all would be in Wake County. That has to help our transit dreams come true a little faster. 

[Jones_]

3 hours ago, Justin6882 said:

And good news (to me at least) that it all would be in Wake County. That has to help our transit dreams come true a little faster. 

Does anyone know if that rail line through Carpenter has ever been in play for Regional or Light Rail? That passes right through the Davis/540 area...

[Scotchman]

The carpenter line is owned by a private rail company ( do not recall which one) and they would very apposed to converting that to light rail.  Light rail and heavy rail (freight) can not use the same track and there is a fairly large separation requirement.  Only option would be to used heavy passenger (Amtrak style cars), like the Charlotte/Raleigh trains, that are much more expensive to build/buy and run.  There would also be a scheduling problem between commuter and freight.  My experience with ridding on mixed commuter/freight in DC area was that the freight companies are not all that concerned with getting out of way of commuter traffic if it caused problem with their freight operations. Better bet would be on line along 54 that us owned by state via NC Railroad Company and has a wider right-of-way. Seems there was a study a few years back and to run lite rail along 54 line would still have issues to separation in some areas.  Would be nice if could get CH to DTD light rail extended through RTI, to RDU, Cary and into DTR on mostly new right-of-way.

[ctl]

I see the Durham-Apex railroad line differently. It is owned by CSX, has a 10 mph speed limit, sees one short freight train on weekdays in each direction, and serves only a few customers who could just as easily be served by Norfolk Southern out of Durham. In fact, CSX is believed to be selling off its underutilized branches and everyone in the business suspects that the Durham-Apex line is on the block. 

That said, it would cost a lot of money to upgrade this line for passenger service at any reasonable speed, and one wonders just how much demand there would be. Also, NIMBYs would be out in force. The two most likely scenarios are the status quo (even if CSX leases or sells the line to a short-line operator) and an NCDOT railbank. 

[KJHburg]

This is looking better and better NC proposes tweaking its incentives.  Remember these are not really paid up front but through the payroll taxes.  Denies it for Apple but sounds like it.  Others of course could use them too.  

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article211319204.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/05/17/amid-apple-speculation-nc-lawmakers-propose.html?ana=twt

Lets get this done for North Carolina's sake as this project would bring jobs for people in a 4-5 county area or more. 

[DanRNC]

I would also say this is not an either/or for the Amazon deal. It actually may benefit RTP to land this for attracting Amazon. Either way the Triangle continues to flex its tech muscles. 

[DPK]

3 hours ago, Scotchman said:

The carpenter line is owned by a private rail company ( do not recall which one) and they would very apposed to converting that to light rail.  Light rail and heavy rail (freight) can not use the same track and there is a fairly large separation requirement.  Only option would be to used heavy passenger (Amtrak style cars), like the Charlotte/Raleigh trains, that are much more expensive to build/buy and run.  There would also be a scheduling problem between commuter and freight.  My experience with ridding on mixed commuter/freight in DC area was that the freight companies are not all that concerned with getting out of way of commuter traffic if it caused problem with their freight operations. Better bet would be on line along 54 that us owned by state via NC Railroad Company and has a wider right-of-way. Seems there was a study a few years back and to run lite rail along 54 line would still have issues to separation in some areas.  Would be nice if could get CH to DTD light rail extended through RTI, to RDU, Cary and into DTR on mostly new right-of-way.

I might be mistaken here, but I'm pretty sure that line through Carpenter is CSX owned.  They even show it on their system map:

Source: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/

 

Unrelated, I also remember reading a while back that CSX is willing to entertain leaving the downtown Apex area should the right offer come along from the town (read as: $$$$$$$$$$$).  CSX has apparently already moved a lot of their switching operations out of town anyways.

Quote

Apex Mayor Bill Sutton said Lassiter hadn’t briefed him yet on his plans. But Sutton said he agrees that CSX needs to leave downtown, and that Apex could benefit from having another property close to Town Hall.

Quote

John Dillard, CSX’s director of state government affairs, said Monday in an email that the company is open to the discussion.

“There is a precedent for such a project in North Carolina,” Dillard wrote. He said CSX did a similar project in 2013 by moving a train yard out of downtown Greenville.

Source: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/southwest-wake-news/article27921826.html

Edited May 17, 2018 by DPK

[KJHburg]

AveXis a new life sciences  company is bringing 200 jobs with payroll of $20 million to Durham announced today.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/05/22/gene-therapy-company-recently-acquired-by-novartis.html

https://www.nccommerce.com/news/press-releases?udt_4733_param_detail=195048

[RALNATIVE]

According to this article, things are looking good for Raleigh and the Triangle in the hunt for both Amazon and Apple:

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2018/05/31/sources-amazon-eyes-downtown-raleigh-for-hq2-apple-deal-imminent/