Triangle Economic News

[DPK]

7 hours ago, Jones_ said:

My gf checks google maps every morning if she is driving to RTP (she often takes the bus) from east downtown Raleigh. This morning a wreck where Wade enters west bound 40 produced the result that Western Blvd to 54 was the fastest route to RTP from east DTR. At midnight that route isn't very fast..it must have been well over an hour going in that way.  My point is that the road network, commuting options, etc are a huge counter weight to our tech workforce. One wreck on one road essentially bottle necks 50% of the region. I know this problem is not unique to our area but for 'new-south' cities and other places that have only grown since the arrival of the car on the scene, this is a critical flaw. And its just getting worse. I took a drive along 401 in northeast north Raleigh this weekend, and I am fairly certain I would blow my brains out if I had to live out there. 

We really need a viable non-auto centric commuter option for people going between Raleigh, RTP, and Durham.  I used to live in downtown Raleigh and commute to Durham every day.  After doing that for 3 years and running into the exact same issues with people screwing up I-40 after the Wade merge, I moved closer to Durham.  Living in Raleigh just wasn't worth the stress commuting.  I miss downtown Raleigh living.

[InitialD]

14 hours ago, DPK said:

We really need a viable non-auto centric commuter option for people going between Raleigh, RTP, and Durham.  I used to live in downtown Raleigh and commute to Durham every day.  After doing that for 3 years and running into the exact same issues with people screwing up I-40 after the Wade merge, I moved closer to Durham.  Living in Raleigh just wasn't worth the stress commuting.  I miss downtown Raleigh living.

Wake needs to move on the commuter rail transit plan sooner rather than later. If RTP misses out on Amazon HQ2 the lack of transit will probably be the biggest factor. 

[KJHburg]

5 minutes ago, InitialD said:

Wake needs to move on the commuter rail transit plan sooner rather than later. If RTP misses out on Amazon HQ2 the lack of transit will probably be the biggest factor. 

No I think it would be lack of dollars for incentives.  This is going to be an incentive driven as many cities could fit their needs.  As one of the fastest growing metros in the country Raleigh Durham Cary will thrive with or without Amazon.  That being said you do need to work on your transit options to the RTP from Wake side for sure. 

[KJHburg]

Swedish manufacturing firm adding 100 new jobs in Cary.  https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/10/04/100-jobs-coming-to-cary-as-firm-from-sweden.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2017-10-04&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1507159606&j=78932711

[RALNATIVE]

Raleigh is definitely serious about winning this:

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/10/06/raleigh-durham-metros-amazon-hq2-task-force-filled.html

 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

With John Kane on board maybe his latest land buy would actually be a really good place to put or fill in with 100 seven story buildings? Close to downtown, Duke Raleigh hospital, NH’s shopping and retail. And don’t forget that John Kane had previously mentioned being up for developing a new transit system? 

[Jones_]

16 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

With John Kane on board maybe his latest land buy would actually be a really good place to put or fill in with 100 seven story buildings? Close to downtown, Duke Raleigh hospital, NH’s shopping and retail. And don’t forget that John Kane had previously mentioned being up for developing a new transit system? 

I believe that little name drop was foreshadowing of the plan to get them here. 

[Scotchman]

for what is worth, just had a conversation with someone that works in a west cost office of amazon and was told they are strongly looking at locations in SE for new HQ.

[RALNATIVE]

12 minutes ago, Scotchman said:

for what is worth, just had a conversation with someone that works in a west cost office of amazon and was told they are strongly looking at locations in SE for new HQ.

1. Washington DC
2. Atlanta
3. Raleigh
4. Charlotte
5. Tampa

[RiverwoodCLT]

Raleigh & Charlotte will still grow with or without Amazon.  Be careful for what you wish for.

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/office/sleepless-over-seattle-why-cities-need-to-think-hard-about-amazon-hq2-80072?rt=48709&utm_source=MorningBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20171012_charlotte_morningbrief&be=kj%40charlottehomes.com

[KJHburg]

Whatever NC city does NOT get Amazon and if that is both of them, Charlotte and Raleigh Durham will continue to boom. Some companies will avoid the city that Amazon does pick (why compete with same labor) and there will be worries about cost of doing business if they come in.  Regardless if this comes to NC or not, our state will continue to prosper with 2 huge fast growing engines and several smaller ones  If I was in Vegas making a bet I would put my money on Atlanta because of its larger size than both of the major NC metros and with the ability to  absorb that many more people.  But I do agree and predicted this is a East coast operation and southeast in particular.  

And whatever ever city gets Amazon NC should try to recruit businesses OUT of that market or at least get them to expand to NC. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

In other Triangle news the largest planned community or city in the state is getting underway Chatham Park in Chatham county. http://rebusinessonline.com/eco-group-unveils-800m-mixed-use-development-in-metro-raleigh-durham-north-carolina/

[rancenc]

13 hours ago, KJHburg said:

In other Triangle news the largest planned community or city in the state is getting underway Chatham Park in Chatham county. http://rebusinessonline.com/eco-group-unveils-800m-mixed-use-development-in-metro-raleigh-durham-north-carolina/

Seems that Chatham County is going to be the next "IN PLACE" to be in the Triangle area!

[orulz]

My prediction is that Atlanta and Chicago, both very large cities with substantial amenities and comparatively low costs of living, will be the front runners here.

Chicago is an older, traditional urban city. It's the only city in the US that can even compare at all to New York City in terms of the urban "feel", due to its size, neighborhoods, amenities, and infrastructure. And yet its 'rust belt' status gives it a MUCH lower cost of living.

If Amazon favors the southeast, If you look at central Atlanta you can see that their downtown and midtown districts are BIG, there are a lot of skyscrapers there and elsewhere (Buckhead, Perimeter), and also relatively a lot of new mid-rise urban districts compared to any one NC city. This, coupled with their better transit system, I think, gives Atlanta the edge over NC.

If you think about it, it makes sense- Atlanta is approximately the equivalent of all three major NC metros (Charlotte, Triangle, Triad) rolled up into one city. Atlanta's CA population is about 6.1 million, which is almost exactly the same as the 2.4 million of Charlotte, plus the 2.0 million of the triangle, plus the 1.6 million of the Triad. Basically if you sum up the downtowns of Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro, Durham, and Winston-Salem you have the equivalent of Atlanta.
 

[KJHburg]

Here is the Raleigh Durham area video (and I am sure it one of several) to lure Amazon HQ2.  Great emphasis on the local universities.  http://www.triangledelivershq2.com/#about

[Green_man]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article179355226.html

Seven sites submitted with the Triangle proposal.  Article mentions there are multiple sites in RTP and 1 in Durham.  I assume they picked a Raleigh site as one or two of the seven, but not mentioned.

My gut feeling, if Triangle area is selected it will be in RTP.   It will be a new pseudo-urban campus and it will finally get the commuter rail started up.

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, Green_man said:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article179355226.html

Seven sites submitted with the Triangle proposal.  Article mentions there are multiple sites in RTP and 1 in Durham.  I assume they picked a Raleigh site as one or two of the seven, but not mentioned.

My gut feeling, if Triangle area is selected it will be in RTP.   It will be a new pseudo-urban campus and it will finally get the commuter rail started up.

I can't imagine HQ2 coming to the Triangle and not having a significant presence in Raleigh proper. RTP and Durham do have available space, but most of the tech momentum is currently in Raleigh.

[Jones_]

18 minutes ago, RALNATIVE said:

I can't imagine HQ2 coming to the Triangle and not having a significant presence in Raleigh proper. RTP and Durham do have available space, but most of the tech momentum is currently in Raleigh.

Seriously. RTP su-hucks. Bad. If Park Center was under way or even that project on 54 (forgot the name) by the now forgotten future light rail stop, that'd be different. I think Amazon would rather assemble a bunch of properties encircling downtown Durham before they scare away employees by asking them to drive to RTP. 

[Scotchman]

If that video is best they can do, write triangle off now.  Music sucked, no context and such fast flipping between locations that no time to take in what's being shown.  Reminded me of one of the really stupid videos at the USA pavilion at 2010 Shanghai worlds fair.  After watching it my Chinese friends where like "what the heck was that about". 

[orulz]

The project on 54 you're thinking of, I believe, is Triangle Metro Center? Which might be the best RTP-vicinity spot for this given that it would be right on the commuter rail. Park Center on the other hand is nowhere near the rail line.

[RALNATIVE]

I'm hoping that Ryan Combs and the others know what they are doing when shipping this via FedEx the day before the deadline and making it publicly visible in the TBJ article. 

I once shipped a proposal to an RFP to a state government office using FedEx and it was diverted to and held at a hub location for some unknown reason. I contacted FedEx and they couldn't tell me exactly why it was delayed, but nevertheless the package arrived after the deadline and they couldn't accept it. Apparently with government RFPs, submittals must be received by the deadline stipulated in the RFP and stamped with the date/time upon receipt. If its not received by the cutoff time, they must return it to the sender. This is mandated by law and there are no exceptions.

For high profile, high stakes RFPs, it is best to use a private courier or have someone hand deliver the proposal. Someone who knows this process very well told me that there are ways for competitors to track down other proposals if carried by a major carrier and cause mischief. Let's hope everything goes smoothly with this delivery.

Edited October 19, 2017 by RALNATIVE

[Jones_]

RALNATIVE I can tell you as an insider, never Fedex or UPS anything to a Mail Service Center address. That is essentially the State post office. I don't know if that is what you did or not, but we put in all caps in our footers, USPS, us the MSC. Physical address only when using Fedex or UPS. 

5 hours ago, orulz said:

The project on 54 you're thinking of, I believe, is Triangle Metro Center? Which might be the best RTP-vicinity spot for this given that it would be right on the commuter rail. Park Center on the other hand is nowhere near the rail line.

Ah yes yes, that's it! Thanks! I bombed a trivia night tonight which is an additional indicator of failing memory. But that's neither here nor there. Triangle Metro Center is 180 acres of land that hans't had much happen and its reasonably close to Park Center. I bet if you urbanized Davis between the two sites, with bike lanes, real sidewalks and stuff, then together you have the 400 acres Amazon wants. If you can massage the area with greenways from Lake Crabtree and on over to the ATT, the bike commuter route along 40, the outdoor center and mountain bike trails officially given up by the airport, then maybe Amazon would consider it good enough...? As an aside are those Davis Park townhouses off Davis on Finsbury St, park of Triangle Metro Center? They don't suck. If that's the beginning of an urban area that includes an Amazon campus, it could appeal to them...

Edited October 19, 2017 by Jones_

[orulz]

I am pretty sure that Fedex does offer a courier sercice above and beyond their standard overnight shipping.

Davis Park townhomes indeed don't absolutely suck and yes I think that was part offer the overall larger TMC plan, or at least controlled by the same developer or something.

On the negative side, TMC is not actually in the boundaries of RTP, so this may be the "Durham County site outside of RTP" they were talking about. So those hoping for some option close to DT Durham may be rather disappointed.

[Jones_]

Are there any large vacant properties in RTP? Is Nortel still around?  Also what would it take to add TMC to the Park? I'm thinking there is some sort of State charter that needs amended but am not sure. I am sure the local units would gladly give up some taxable land value in exchange for Amazon...

[ctl]

The ex-Nortel property north of NC 54 in RTP is 105 acres, adjacent to the RR tracks, and vacant.  I'd be astonished if this tract were not front-and-center in the Triangle's proposal. Fidelity bought the ex-Nortel property south of NC 54 (four buildings) and occupied it after extensive renovation. That's off the market.

RTP has expanded before and could expand again. The legal mechanisms exist. The issue is, at what value would TMC be appraised. Ain't gonna be cheap.