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KJHburg

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On 1/20/2018 at 7:41 PM, Merthecat said:

I read an article in TBJ which reported that both Tripps restaurant locations will (or have already) close.  Given that one is located in Ridgewood (the other in Garner), I wonder if this could be taken as a step toward the apartment building that was proposed there awhile back. 

Orvis is going in the Tripps space.  Sounds like the apartment project is dead.  If any major work happens at Ridgewood, it would be the office/retail extension on the east end. 

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On 1/22/2018 at 8:00 PM, ctl said:

As to whether "Raleigh" effectively means "Triangle" in the context of Amazon HQ2, the CEO of the Greater Durham Chamber of Commerce and the CEO of the Research Triangle Foundation say it does.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article196027419.html

 

The more that I think about it, the more I believe that if Amazon chooses the Triangle, they will actually go to downtown Durham. My reasoning is that there light rail system is much further along than Raleigh’ s bus system that we’ll be building. Plus Amazon can actually help speed theirs up by being a sponsor? Durham is also more like Austin TX/open, liberal and if I am correct the have enough land downtown to build a large amount of buildings. Just a thought. :-)

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10 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

The more that I think about it, the more I believe that if Amazon chooses the Triangle, they will actually go to downtown Durham. My reasoning is that there light rail system is much further along than Raleigh’ s bus system that we’ll be building. Plus Amazon can actually help speed theirs up by being a sponsor? Durham is also more like Austin TX/open, liberal and if I am correct the have enough land downtown to build a large amount of buildings. Just a thought. :-)

I serious doubt they would choose Durham, nor RTP for that matter, as the primary location. Raleigh proper has the image and the momentum as the tech center. Raleigh is also the state capital and the largest city in the Triangle. They seem to be showing preference for state capitals and the nation's capital.

Eventhough Durham-Chapel Hill may see light rail first, Raleigh will kick things into high gear just to suit Amazon so I don't see that as an issue. Durham may be more funky and quirky than Raleigh, but at the end of the day Raleigh is more business centric and urban, which is of more interest to a company like Amazon.

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  1. Neither downtown Durham or downtown Raleigh can handle it alone.
  2. As for the image of Raleigh, given the depth at which Amazon is looking, reality and commitments are what matter -- not image. Everything is under a microscope by a smart buyer. Posturing, branding, positioning, etc go only so far in an exercise like this.
  3. Seattle is not the state capital of Washington. 
  4. Raleigh is more business-centric than Durham? My, how things have changed. Durham was larger until the mid-1950s, and industry made it that way. Aside from three cotton mills, Raleigh had very little industry until spillover from RTP took hold. Rather, the economy was driven by state government. 
  5. As for light rail in Raleigh, the money would have to come from somewhere. That's not what Wake County voters approved in the sales tax referendum. Perhaps euphoria from Amazon would induce voters to accept a redirect, but be clear that the referendum was specific to bus and commuter rail. 
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Honestly? My favorite spot in the Triangle would be "Davis Park East", formerly known as Triangle Metro Center. Why? First, it carries the panache of RTP, which is a drab office park, but nonetheless has a higher international profile than the cities of Raleigh or Durham ever will, at least in our lifetimes. That location would bolster the Miami/Page area that already serves as "Downtown RTP", providing the density needed for it to make the jump from suburban to urban. It also would provide a solid central anchor for a regional rail system between Raleigh and Durham - and reason to run more trains rather than a peak-only commuter rail service.

Park Center doesn't do it for me because it's not on the rail line.

NCSU's Spring Hill area (between Centennial and Six) would be my second choice.

Really though, I don't have the slightest clue how anything Raleigh has to offer could possibly compete with the Gulch site in downtown Atlanta and all the incentives that are reportedly on the table there.

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Honestly? My favorite spot in the Triangle would be "Davis Park East", formerly known as Triangle Metro Center. Why? First, it carries the panache of RTP, which is a drab office park, but nonetheless has a higher international profile than the cities of Raleigh or Durham ever will, at least in our lifetimes. That location would bolster the Miami/Page area that already serves as "Downtown RTP", providing the density needed for it to make the jump from suburban to urban. It also would provide a solid central anchor for a regional rail system between Raleigh and Durham - and reason to run more trains rather than a peak-only commuter rail service.

Park Center doesn't do it for me because it's not on the rail line.

NCSU's Spring Hill area (between Centennial and Six) would be my second choice.

Really though, I don't have the slightest clue how anything Raleigh has to offer could possibly compete with the Gulch site in downtown Atlanta and all the incentives that are reportedly on the table there.
I should also add that this location has unparalleled freeway access, being in the triangle defined by 40, 147, and 540. I have also thought that a future RDU people mover could someday be extended here.
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Central Atlanta is capable of absorbing the whole project. Mass transit is already in place. Atlanta is famous/infamous for seizing under-utilized land and redeveloping it, and there's a lot of such land west of the railroad corridor. For people who live inside I-285, access to the airport is easy -- and let's face it, RDU just isn't Hartsfield-Jackson. And there's Georgia Tech in downtown with strong offerings in the things Amazon wants (computer science, industrial engineering, supply chain).

Tough competition but I wouldn't surrender yet. 

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I'm all for "smart" growth, but it appears that our current city council may have their minds stuck in Mayberry.  Raleigh isn't the same city as it was a decade ago and this blurb in the N&O doesn't paint a pretty picture of managing our huge influx of growth.  There are so many people moving here right  now.  It seems absurd to throttle density when we can barely keep up as it is.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/article196568414.html

Edited by DPK
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The regime in city hall starting with Meeker in 2002 did almost everything they could to encourage density. But when Gaylord went down, it was a message that a significant number of citizens ITB want densification to slow down. The margin of victory was thin, and perhaps things will flip back to green lights. But I suspect some sensitivities will have to be assuaged before that happens. 

Meanwhile, the green light is still on OTB, in Wake County outside Raleigh, and in adjacent counties. And apparently in Durham too, where the issue is displacement rather than density per se.

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The TL/DR for me is, put some teeth in actually saving some areas, and where you are going to tear stuff down, redevelop it as dense as you like. 

To  re-articulate two of my old points, but threaded together. 1)ANY redevelopment changes the character of a neighborhood. You often hear me frame this as historic preservation, which to me it primarily is....the character is founded in the old building themselves, not their height, or setbacks. For example, the stretch of Glenwood with FIVE new houses between Wills Forest and Peace, is forever altered when I look at it. I see crap new construction, not slightly larger, new single family homes of a similar character. They are not.  2) So, if you're going to redevelop it, it might as well be dense and tall. That takes the pressure off adjoining, historic areas. I do tend to think the height of buildings is the focus of discussions way too often (the ayes and nays both).... but height is fine *shrug* ...the problems lie mainly with orientation, their makeup/use, and lately, design.  These three things all are at risk with Stef's statement about wanting more setbacks....I mean, it really got in my craw (as did some folks on a FB discussion about the Oberlin/Hillsborough proposal) This is exactly how you disengage people and buildings from their surroundings.... set them back, suburban style. The FB folks, even tried to convince me that 5 story buildings create wind tunnels...sorry, y'all, but just because you learned a catchy new word, doesn't mean it applies to a given situation. Davie/Wilmington has some wind tunnel-like characteristics, but even there it is minimal. 

The stuff in Cameron Village isn't terrible at all...pretty good even....the designs/materials are weak, but the commercial density is good, the hidden parking, done fairly well, and new, pedestrian world is a refreshing change from the old, bunker style stuff that was there. If it were up to me, I would find a way to have buildings with stores fronting Clark Avenue all through Cameron Village and make it like a true downtown style area, and not a disney land for all the white Tahoes to squeeze in  and out of. 

 

 

 

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I don't necessarily disagree that development in Cameron Village should be more scrutinized.  It's a beautiful neighborhood of the city, and I think its character should be preserved.  I am certainly not against development there, just as long as it is of a quality design.  The Berkshire Apartments at Clark and Oberlin are gorgeous.  On the other hand, and just a few blocks up Oberlin, the 616 At the Village complex is an abomination.  The colors are dreadful, the materials are cheap, and the north side even has a massive blank wall.  It is the 616-type developments that I have no issues with rejecting.  But high-quality buildings such as Berkshire are more appropriate in that neighborhood, in my opinion, and should not be restricted quite so much.

One thing I've noticed is that Oberlin Rd. between Berkshire and 401 Oberlin across the street is 5 lanes, and it seems to rather kill the urban streetscape effect that is so nicely achieved by the two apartment complexes.  I would be interested in seeing a road diet from Clark to Bedford Ave.

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Interesting about the current Apple leadership and how it might fit into Apple's search for a new office campus.  Not only is Tim Cook at Duke grad (knew that) but didn't know he worked at IBM in RTP for 12 years and the current COO is a Sanderson HS grad and NC State grad.   He also worked at RTP before going to Apple. Apple has a huge data center in Maiden in Catawba County.  Hmm CEO loves his alma mater and knows this area could the Triangle be on the short list for Apple?  I believe this is a much better chance for this than Amazon. 

''s 

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^^^ I saw that but I really wonder how hard they really considered Raleigh considering the source of this story was the Seattle newspaper.  With Mercedes and Porsche both having their North American HQs there in Atlanta I do wonder but it is great if they did.   I still think BMW will move its American HQ out of New Jersey someday hopefully to NC and quite possibly Charlotte. 

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14 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ I saw that but I really wonder how hard they really considered Raleigh considering the source of this story was the Seattle newspaper.  With Mercedes and Porsche both having their North American HQs there in Atlanta I do wonder but it is great if they did.   I still think BMW will move its American HQ out of New Jersey someday hopefully to NC and quite possibly Charlotte. 

If BMW does ever move, would they not be more drawn to Greenville, SC, where their SUV plant is?

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  • 3 weeks later...

^^ With 26,000 sq ft floorplates at just 40 stories over 1,000,000 sq ft of office space in each tower.  Just 2 towers this big could be 25% of Amazon's total square footage needs.  I do think Raleigh needs to build UP and loosen some of the restrictions downtown on height.  In Charlotte our UMUD zoning you can build as high as you want no special approval needed just regular design, setbacks standards. 

Edited by KJHburg
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You could certainly campus up the whole area between Wade and Macon Pond, Edwards Mill and Blue Ridge. Connect that thing right up to the Arena/Stadium, flush it up with the art museum and Rex, and you got a pretty good, very modern city thing. Umstead would also be a short bike ride away. It's not crazy. 

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