Triangle Economic News

[Richhamleigh, DC]

If only the Triangle had put some of its transportation money into light / commuter rail and started to urbanize RTP 20 years ago.  There was a vision, when Brier Creek was just an assemblage in the late 1990's, to turn it into an urban showcase with a rail connection to an architecturally-significant exhibition hall, Southpointe-like shopping, vertically-mixed use "downtown Triangle".  Instead, the City of Raleigh opted for an uninspiring anti-urban mess. 

[unique1rdu]

Very interesting article on cities that meet Amazon's needs:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-cities-that-meet-the-criteria-for-amazons-second-headquarters-2017-09-07

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, unique1rdu said:

Very interesting article on cities that meet Amazon's needs:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-cities-that-meet-the-criteria-for-amazons-second-headquarters-2017-09-07

Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Boston, Bridgeport, Denver, New York, Provo, Raleigh, Tampa and Washington....these were all on my personal list, with exception to Denver, Bridgeport, New York, and Provo.

 

I do think that one of those cities will get it, and will most likely be one of those on the east coast. I'd say Boston #1, Austin #2, Washington #3, and Raleigh #4.

And thinking about this a little further, Amazon is most likely wanting another HQ to be closer to Europe, Africa, South America, and the Caribbean. This bodes well for cities like Washington, Raleigh, and Tampa.

Edited September 8, 2017 by RALNATIVE

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I wonder if they are considering Nashville TN? Which is also in the running for a NSL team...

[ctl]

Perhaps. But Nashville historically had a better-developed downtown. I believe that in 1920, Nashville was the 3rd-most populous city in the Southeast (behind New Orleans and Atlanta), ahead of Birmingham, Memphis, Richmond, and of course any city in North Carolina.  I can't imagine 8 million square feet of new construction in downtown Nashville.  Maybe if they built multiple high-rises, or built on top of the former city dump or along the river bank (although recent experience proved that floods are a distinct possibility).

Edited September 8, 2017 by ctl

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I feel that Nashville and Austin are Raleigh's biggest competition in regards to similar sized cities for most things.

[Jones_]

16 hours ago, RALNATIVE said:

Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Boston, Bridgeport, Denver, New York, Provo, Raleigh, Tampa and Washington....these were all on my personal list, with exception to Denver, Bridgeport, New York, and Provo.

 

I do think that one of those cities will get it, and will most likely be one of those on the east coast. I'd say Boston #1, Austin #2, Washington #3, and Raleigh #4.

And thinking about this a little further, Amazon is most likely wanting another HQ to be closer to Europe, Africa, South America, and the Caribbean. This bodes well for cities like Washington, Raleigh, and Tampa.

DC has so many areas lumped within "DC" and I don't have a great feel for the outlying areas...what areas up there would a campus best fit? Out near Dulles I'm guessing...?

Edited September 8, 2017 by Jones_

[Merthecat]

I wonder if the fact that Whole Foods' (who of course was recently acquired by Amazon) headquarters is based in Austin will attract the company there.  It would make one huge base for the company.

[KJHburg]

Here is the Amazon RFP straight from the company https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, Merthecat said:

I wonder if the fact that Whole Foods' (who of course was recently acquired by Amazon) headquarters is based in Austin will attract the company there.  It would make one huge base for the company.

I'd hope that WFs doesn't give Austin an advantage, but something tells me that they want HQ2 to be in the EST timezone. I've dealt with many big companies and being located on the west coast puts them at a disadvantage when dealing with Europe and the Middle East.

3 hours ago, Jones_ said:

DC has so many areas lumped within "DC" and I don't have a great feel for the outlying areas...what areas up there would a campus best fit? Out near Dulles I'm guessing...?

I would think somewhere like Arlington, Alexandria, or suburban Maryland.

[Popsickle]

On 9/8/2017 at 6:51 PM, RALNATIVE said:

I'd hope that WFs doesn't give Austin an advantage, but something tells me that they want HQ2 to be in the EST timezone. I've dealt with many big companies and being located on the west coast puts them at a disadvantage when dealing with Europe and the Middle East.

I would think somewhere like Arlington, Alexandria, or suburban Maryland.

From living in NOVA for a few years I don't think there is room, there is definitely not enough room near any metro line. 

[Green_man]

My first thought when I heard the news was the NC State property between Centennial and Dix.  iMaps has it at 130 acres.  Maybe something like 2-3 high rise towers and 20-30 mid-rise buildings similar to Seattle and mix in some residential.  Would box in Dix park like central park and help activate the edges.  And could compliment/extend the future mixed-use center at the north end of Centennial.  Connect to downtown/ Union Station by train tracks, or air tram.

[Isaac]

That land is owned by NC State right now.  I know they have long term plans to build over there but I agree that it would be a good spot.

[Jones_]

On 9/9/2017 at 8:14 PM, Popsickle said:

From living in NOVA for a few years I don't think there is room, there is definitely not enough room near any metro line. 

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at....meeting all of the criteria expect space. I think Raleigh and Durham stand a decent chance when this is factored in. 

[RALNATIVE]

27 minutes ago, Jones_ said:

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at....meeting all of the criteria expect space. I think Raleigh and Durham stand a decent chance when this is factored in. 

Eventhough Boston and DC may meet the space requirements in certain areas, the cost of that available space is much more expensive than any available space in Raleigh. Also, eventhough Raleigh doesn't currently meet the mass transit requirements, the city will have the new Union Station ready soon which will be light rail enabled.

After a selection is made, it will take Amazon several years to build out the space needed to fully support their HQ2 operations, and this could give Raleigh time to vastly improve it's mass transit options. It all depends on how flexible they want to be and which requirements they weigh the most. At this point I really don't see mass transit as being a showstopper.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Tell me if I am wrong but per the request it seems like they want one proposal from one MSA? This one proposal can include multiple sites as in option A is downtown Raleigh, option B is RTP, opinion C is the North Hills campus, option D is Centennial campus...?

[Merthecat]

I drove through Centennial Campus for the first time in a while yesterday, and I was very unimpressed.   It was so bland, and all of the roads were too wide (there seems to be no traffic on several 4-lane divided roads), closed, or dead-ends.   Finding the Hunt Library was far more difficult than I had imagined.  Something to give life to that area would be nice, although I'm not convinced Amazon is the right fit for it.  The whole place just seemed so suburban.

[RALNATIVE]

3 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

Tell me if I am wrong but per the request it seems like they want one proposal from one MSA? This one proposal can include multiple sites as in option A is downtown Raleigh, option B is RTP, opinion C is the North Hills campus, option D is Centennial campus...?

That's exactly what I was thinking. The Triangle could have a very strong proposal if they include multiple options for sites in the bid. I think downtown Raleigh as the HQ site is a must, because amazon is all about its urban campus in Seattle. The success of the downtown Citrix urban campus could be a strong selling point.  In addition, having other parcels in RTP, Centennial campus, North Hills, etc as options for buildings to house Amazon operations would work well. In Seattle they have about 33 buildings, so obviously they would not try to build everything downtown and there are benefits to having things spread out across the metro.

My fear is that Raleigh, RTP, and Durham will all try to submit separate proposals, and that would be disasterous. For this bid, a single proposal with Raleigh being the core really would be the strongest package for this area.

Edited September 12, 2017 by RALNATIVE

[InitialD]

RDU is a big asset to the Triangle's bid too, with direct flights to SF, Seattle, NY, DC, as well as London and Paris. While I prefer a downtown location, I could see how RTP would be a good fit for a campus setting, and easily accessible to the airport and Interstate, plus it would be more reason to connect future Durham-Wake commuter rail to RTP. 

[RALNATIVE]

45 minutes ago, InitialD said:

RDU is a big asset to the Triangle's bid too, with direct flights to SF, Seattle, NY, DC, as well as London and Paris. While I prefer a downtown location, I could see how RTP would be a good fit for a campus setting, and easily accessible to the airport and Interstate, plus it would be more reason to connect future Durham-Wake commuter rail to RTP. 

What i'm saying is that they could have 1 or 2 towers downtown to house the main corporate functions (i.e. C-suite, Legal, Marketing, Finance) AND a full campus in RTP for operations (i.e. IT, sales, product development, mid level management). Again, they are looking to invest around $5 billion. That is a lot of real estate.

Based on their current model in Seattle, I do not think they would place all of their headquarters buildings on a campus in an suburban area like RTP. This company is not like a Nortel, or IBM, or even SAS for that matter. They thrive in an urban setting. Wherever they choose to locate you will probably see their buildings located across that metro, and not all in one area.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Today's announcement that Infosys has chosen Brier Creek is interesting???

[KJHburg]

Here is the full article about Infosys choosing Brier Creek for their new office location. https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/09/12/infosys-selects-site-in-raleigh-for-2-000-job-wake.html?ana=e_trig_bn&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1505226743&j=78812071

[RALNATIVE]

33 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Here is the full article about Infosys choosing Brier Creek for their new office location. https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/09/12/infosys-selects-site-in-raleigh-for-2-000-job-wake.html?ana=e_trig_bn&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1505226743&j=78812071

Not to overlook the mere importance of this development, but this type of site selection activity by IT firms will most certainly have some sort of impact on Amazon's decision. Infosys provides the types of IT contingent workforce and services that Amazon tends to use. They also have a current partnership.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saritharai/2014/06/27/amazon-ties-up-with-it-billionaire-murthy-of-infosys-to-launch-e-commerce-joint-venture-in-india/#6db8ffeef7a6

https://www.infosys.com/newsroom/press-releases/Pages/AWS-accelerate-cloud-migration.aspx

 

 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

After reading this article two things come to mind.

1 Are they asking us read between the lines? We're starting in Briar Creek but who knows where we'll be located at full employment/2000?

2 If a developer really wants us, then wuo us? There is no ring on the finger yet...?

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

After reading this article two things come to mind.

1 Are they asking us read between the lines? We're starting in Briar Creek but who knows where we'll be located at full employment/2000?

2 If a developer really wants us, then wuo us? There is no ring on the finger yet...?

I think they are starting there and possibly as they grow do a build to suit project somewhere. It is a building under construction where they can ramp up quickly and probably expand there but then a few years down the road figure it all  out.