Columbus Village at Town Center (Cancelled)

[HRVA]

Next earnings call is in two weeks and BB&B will likely have filed bankruptcy by then. With both tenants in bankruptcy maybe we will see some movement on AH’s plans. 

[vdogg]

5 hours ago, HRVA said:

Next earnings call is in two weeks and BB&B will likely have filed bankruptcy by then. With both tenants in bankruptcy maybe we will see some movement on AH’s plans. 

The fact that they STILL haven't moved on block 2 doesn't give me hope. In my mind's eye, you would think they would have to fill out Town Center proper before they could expand across the street.

[urbanvb]

Just saw a list of stores that are closing. The one on Greenbrier is listed but not the Beach location.

[HRVA]

They discussed the redevelopment but maintained their previous position that they will continue to collect rent until the Bed Bath & Beyond lease runs out. They also mention trying to shoehorn in a global office tenant in Town Center but no mention of developing more office space. 

Opining but I don’t expect BB&B to make it to the end of their lease so I am still hopeful that it will force AH to move a little faster on this project. The location will be their last on the Southside and they appear to be abandoning their nearly complete buy buy Baby in Greenbrier. 

[vdogg]

58 minutes ago, HRVA said:

They discussed the redevelopment but maintained their previous position that they will continue to collect rent until the Bed Bath & Beyond lease runs out. They also mention trying to shoehorn in a global office tenant in Town Center but no mention of developing more office space. 

Opining but I don’t expect BB&B to make it to the end of their lease so I am still hopeful that it will force AH to move a little faster on this project. The location will be their last on the Southside and they appear to be abandoning their nearly complete buy buy Baby in Greenbrier. 

Nothing about the block 2 development that they were supposed to announce before the end of last year?

[HRVA]

Bed Bath & Beyond plans to liquidate all inventory and go out of business - CNN

They leave the door open to stay in business if someone buys the company, but they are beginning the liquidation process. Let's see how AH responds at the next earnings call (5/9). 

[baobabs727]

Unless I am missing something, the only thing we should care about is block 2. The fate of block 2. Because AH has made it clear that they are going to build a glorified apartment complex over on the bed bath & beyond and regal parcels. Nothing to see here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

[urbanlife]

2 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Unless I am missing something, the only thing we should care about is block 2. The fate of block 2. Because AH has made it clear that they are going to build a glorified apartment complex over on the bed bath & beyond and regal parcels. Nothing to see here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

This would be really unfortunate if that is what ends up there because the land for this part of the downtown could easily be 6 blocks of urban development.

[vdogg]

7 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Unless I am missing something, the only thing we should care about is block 2. The fate of block 2. Because AH has made it clear that they are going to build a glorified apartment complex over on the bed bath & beyond and regal parcels. Nothing to see here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that Divaris announcing that they have several developments in the work around town center, and bed bath & beyond announcing their bankruptcy, are mere coincidences. I think these two announcements go hand in hand, so it may be more than simply apartments. We may get a mixed use component.

[baobabs727]

11 hours ago, urbanlife said:

This would be really unfortunate if that is what ends up there because the land for this part of the downtown could easily be 6 blocks of urban development.

Indeed. Lately they've simply been following the money. And the money, for now, is in multi-family. And I understand their strategy. AH is a publicly traded company with shareholders to placate. 

6 hours ago, vdogg said:

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that Divaris announcing that they have several developments in the work around town center, and bed bath & beyond announcing their bankruptcy, are mere coincidences. I think these two announcements go hand in hand, so it may be more than simply apartments. We may get a mixed use component.

I hope you're right, we MAY get more than apartments. I have no information on that. Hoping you do! But then again, a "mixed use" component here could very easily end up being defined merely by the inclusion of the usual banal suspects:  nail spas,  sub shops,  cell phone stores, etc.  Oh yeah, and over-priced, coarsely-grained, new (read: faux) urbanism-inspired apartment boxes. Sigh.  Truly, are we here to celebrate THAT?  Count me out, brother man.

BTW, clearly whoever gifted me the confused emoji hasn't been listening to and/or reading the transcripts of ALL of the AH earnings calls for the past many quarters. ;}   Not to say plans couldn't change, but I have to go by what AH has said, not by what  we  hope will be....

Edited April 24, 2023 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

18 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Unless I am missing something, the only thing we should care about is block 2. The fate of block 2. Because AH has made it clear that they are going to build a glorified apartment complex over on the bed bath & beyond and regal parcels. Nothing to see here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

Seemed relevant to the topic of this thread. Certainly what is known about the current plans is not as exciting as what was once planned but I will hold off final judgment until an actual proposal is presented. 

[baobabs727]

42 minutes ago, HRVA said:

Seemed relevant to the topic of this thread. Certainly what is known about the current plans is not as exciting as what was once planned but I will hold off final judgment until an actual proposal is presented. 

Are you a friend of Joash? Fond of the Chamber folks?   JK...point taken, fair enough.  

[HRVA]

AH Earnings Call

Not at all encouraging. They’ve fielded 6 unsolicited calls from retailers for the space and while they mentioned their planned redevelopment, they state they are considering options and Haddad indicated projects in other regions may be better investments. They do have a preference for new to the market retailers, for what it’s worth. I’m extremely pessimistic about redevelopment occurring here at all. 

I also didn’t see any mention about Block 2 and it seems they’re pretty content where they are now with office in Town Center. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by HRVA

[vdogg]

3 hours ago, HRVA said:

AH Earnings Call

Not at all encouraging. They’ve fielded 6 unsolicited calls from retailers for the space and while they mentioned their planned redevelopment, they state they are considering options and Haddad indicated later projects in other regions may be better investments. They do have a preference for new to the market retailers, for what it’s worth. I’m extremely pessimistic about redevelopment occurring here at all. 

I also didn’t see any mention about Block 2 and it seems they’re pretty content where they are now with office in Town Center. 

At this point I think it's all in City Council's hands. Block 2 option expires very soon. Time to cut 'em loose.

[vdogg]

Ok....  This entire statement makes me unreasonably upset. Man this burns me up. He's basically saying Va. Beach isn't good enough for them to spend their money in. If that's the case, they can go ahead and carry their @ss3s over yonder and we can save our significant amount of PPP money for an agreement with another more worthy developer.

"Louis Haddad

It's a really good question, Rob. It's something that we're considering as we speak, and it's actually even broader than that. Not only are we not willing to dilute ourselves as we get the highest rents in the region here at Town Center. But also there is competition for these dollars. So a new project here in Virginia Beach, we know will be successful. But is that the best use of our dollars when they could be deployed in Charlotte or Atlanta or Charleston or Raleigh, and we have all those opportunities. So not only do we need to see that it would be very accretive to add here. But we also have to be convinced that it's going to be better than competing project that we can do in another region."

 

[varider]

It’s good to finally get some insight into their perspective. I’m glad they’re at least being honest. As soon as some big name from out of town tries to compete in Town Center, I bet they change their tune. They’re obviously too comfortable too content and there’s not enough competition and pressure to make any moves. It’s a shame, but they’re obviously speaking facts. Those cities mentioned are exploding in growth , meanwhile NO ONE is talking about people moving to Virginia Beach. It is what it is at this point. 

[vdogg]

4 minutes ago, varider said:

It’s good to finally get some insight into their perspective. I’m glad they’re at least being honest. As soon as some big name from out of town tries to compete in Town Center, I bet they change their tune. They’re obviously too comfortable too content and there’s not enough competition and pressure to make any moves. It’s a shame, but they’re obviously speaking facts. Those cities mentioned are exploding in growth , meanwhile NO ONE is talking about people moving to Virginia Beach. It is what it is at this point. 

I would even go so far as to say entitled. They obviously think Va. Beach is THEIR territory. That's why I'm against giving the "local boys" deference when it comes to other major developments, particularly at the Oceanfront. Make them work for their meal, there needs to be a shake up here soon. We are very quickly heading towards stagnation.

[BFG]

I admit I’m not privy to the business details but AH always seems to put other markets ahead of HR, and council doesn’t seem to mind because 1) they know many of the loudest constituents want that small town feel and 2) they don’t want to upset the folks at the local construction firm. At this point I say entertain other offers and force AH’s hand. Don’t let them hold the region hostage just because they’re local. 

[varider]

We are already stagnant. I’m afraid we’re on the verge of literally shrinking. We have to be the most underperforming region in this country. An apartment building here and there doesn’t change the fact that NOBODY is moving here on their own will. We are FULL of people who are forced to be here and still identify with wherever they came from. I thought the pandemic would have been a perfect opportunity for us, but it seems that it worked that way for every southern city and region except for ours. 

[BFG]

I don't get how a metro of nearly 2 million continues to stagnate at a snail's pace, and none of the city leaders seem to think it's a problem. Every five years it's another round of "let's change the name of the region". It doesn't matter if you call it Hampton Roads, Coastal Virginia, Tidewater, The 757, or whatever other name. If you don't have high-paying jobs to match the increasing COL, you're not going to get people.

Seeing other markets that were smaller than us 25 years ago blow us out the water is asinine. Someone has to take the reins and nicely tell the NIMBYs where to put their opinion and realize an area our size needs the growth. 

[vdogg]

Let's put out an RFP for block 2. Betcha that'll get their attention... 

[baobabs727]

I read the earnings conference call 3X.  I usually listen to the recordings because I think tone and intonation matter, but anyway....  Except for the very specific details of the call, ALL OF WHAT HAS BEEN REMARKED UPON HERE TODAY has been brought to your attention in the past. Multiple times. From HR economic malaise, stagnation, etc., to the supremacy of our peer regions, to the crap show that is VBTC in the early 2020's.  Been there, known that, said that, felt that, lamented that.  ALL posts from today are on-point. 

As to A/H, your profession of surprised alarm stems from the fact that, finally, you have been able peek beneath the Emperor's robes, and you have found him to be without any undergarments.  HE has revealed his true nature to us all today. (But did not we suspect who he was all along?)   

1)  Please urge ALL 11 members of the VA BEACH CITY COUNCIL to DENY any additional extension applications relative to A/H's Option for Block 2  (expiring April 2024).  Screw A/H.  

2) A/H is a publicly-traded company, and as such their primary and unwavering loyalty is to their shareholders:   their investors. No, not to VB City Council. Not to the City of VB.  And certainly not to the good people of HR.  Screw A/H. Sideways!

3) A/H has grown into a true multi-state player since the inception of VBTC, and so they now have access to additional, more attractive options for capital allocation. Disloyal you might say?  Sure.  Disloyal by design, THEY might say.  And NO apologies!  All of us here are proud Coastal Virginians.  Naturally, this hurts.  So screw A/H.  Sideways and Royally!   

4) A/H bought the Seritage property (formerly Sears)  when Pembroke Square passed on it/couldn't swing it given the terms. With this clever and insidious acquisition, A/H prevented anyone/everyone else--including, importantly, Pembroke Square's own principals--from competing with VBTC in Class A Office there. Clearly, A/H sought to interfere with Pembroke Square's known aspirations for that space, AND by obvious extension, with Pembroke's entire re-development plan.  So screw A/H.  Sideways, Royally and Perennially!!

   

Edited May 10, 2023 by baobabs727

[KJHburg]

This was interesting about Armada Hoffler from the local prespective. AH has indeed built a couple of projects in NC notably partnering to build a mixed used tower in downtown Durham.  One City Center is a 27 story office, retail, apartment and condo tower all in one.  Very successful. 

Here locally in Charlotte they built one new apartment complex, partnered with a local on an old textile mill conversion to apartments and built a new apartment building next door (https://armadahoffler.com/properties/chronicle-mill/)  and proposed a third.  This third one has taken the longest to get off the ground.  At first it was going to be a 15 story office building with ground floor Publix store.  (https://armadahoffler.com/properties/ten-tyron/)  Now I am hearing it is 15 story apartment tower with the ground floor Publix.  This is located in uptown Charlotte and was supposed to be underway and complete by now. It is still a vacant lot even though there is a lease signed supposedly signed with Publix.  That is why I thought it was interesting AH said they would be deploying more of their capital into other markets include those in the Carolinas.  So I guess we will see.

I wonder if this replacement tenant for the Bed Bath and Beyond by the Town Center could be a Publix.  Since Publix announced one store in the market surely more will follow.  Publix also likes to do urban format stores on the ground floor of apartment buildings or even high rises.  They have done that multiple times in markets like  Raleigh, Miami, Orlando, Tampa etc.   That is what AH plans to do with Publix in uptown Charlotte if gets started. 

on a general note if your area is growing other developers will come in for sure and the faster you are growing more and more developers will flock there as they will want a piece of the action.  We have local big developers but now we have lots of national developers from all over in the market.  Dittos for Raleigh Durham.   If there is some money to made developers will come believe me.  

Edited May 14, 2023 by KJHburg

[baobabs727]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

This was interesting about Armada Hoffler from the local prespective. AH has indeed built a couple of projects in NC notably partnering to build a mixed used tower in downtown Durham.  One City Center is a 27 story office, retail, apartment and condo tower all in one.  Very successful. 

Here locally in Charlotte they built one new apartment complex, partnered with a local on an old textile mill conversion to apartments and built a new apartment building next door (https://armadahoffler.com/properties/chronicle-mill/)  and proposed a third.  This third one has taken the longest to get off the ground.  At first it was going to be a 15 story office building with ground floor Publix store.  (https://armadahoffler.com/properties/ten-tyron/)  Now I am hearing it is 15 story apartment tower with the ground floor Publix.  This is located in uptown Charlotte and was supposed to be underway and complete by now. It is still a vacant lot even though there is a lease signed supposedly signed with Publix.  That is why I thought it was interesting AH said they would be deploying more of their capital into other markets include those in the Carolinas.  So I guess we will see.

I wonder if this replacement tenant for the Bed Bath and Beyond by the Town Center could be a Publix.  Since Publix announced one store in the market surely more will follow.  Publix also likes to do urban format stores on the ground floor of apartment buildings or even high rises.  They have done that multiple times in markets like  Raleigh, Miami, Orlando, Tampa etc.   That is what AH plans to do with Publix in uptown Charlotte if gets started. 

on a general note if your area is growing other developers will come in for sure and the faster you are growing more and more developers will flock there as they will want a piece of the action.  We have local big developers but now we have lots of national developers from all over in the market.  Dittos for Raleigh Durham.   If there is some money to made developers will come believe me.  

Publix yes. Growth no. 

[urbanvb]

I went by Bed and Bath today. They've sold over half of their merchandise. It'll be interesting to see what happens with this building.