Charlotte area population statistics

[Silicon Dogwoods]

18 minutes ago, QCxpat said:

I couldn't agree more.  Sitting here in Cambridge, with Harvard and MIT minutes away, I believe nothing is more important for the future growth, prosperity and reputation of the City we all love, Charlotte, than what Silicon Dogwoods just said.  If the QC wants to be an attractive and respected global city, UNCC must have the funding and support required to become a renowned university.    

It's not for nothing that GE exited Connecticut for Boston. Although GE didn't like its tax situation in Connecticut, Boston is hardly a low-tax haven, even with incentives GE may have been given to come there. It also has a high cost of living and less than pleasant weather.

But Boston overflows with highly educated talent. GE clearly said that they chose Boston to have a steady flow of talent from the many universities in that city and state. Boston and the alums of its schools invested big in the region. Our own Research Triangle is another example of this, though on a smaller scale. In other words, you have to spend money to make money. 

But the current regime in Raleigh has completely rejected this excellent business strategy in favor of chasing the lowest possible taxes.

Well, you get what you pay for. We will be very sorry-if we're not already-that they ever came to power.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[Dale]

Maybe, but I'd be willing to bet that if I randomly picked 100 Charlotteans off the street, NONE would want to relocate to Boston.

[CLT2014]

36 minutes ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

It's not for nothing that GE exited Connecticut for Boston. Although GE didn't like its tax situation in Connecticut, Boston is hardly a low-tax haven, even with incentives GE may have been given to come there. It also has a high cost of living and less than pleasant weather.

But Boston overflows with highly educated talent. GE clearly said that they chose Boston to have a steady flow of talent from the many universities in that city and state. Boston and the alums of its schools invested big in the region. Our own Research Triangle is another example of this, though on a smaller scale. In other words, you have to spend money to make money. 

But the current regime in Raleigh has completely rejected this excellent business strategy in favor of chasing the lowest possible taxes.

Well, you get what you pay for. We will be very sorry-if we're not already-that they ever came to power.

None of Massachusetts public universities are particularly high ranking though. Flagship UMass Amherst was ranked #29 among national public universities and was established in 1863. New England benefits from private colleges that became incredibly wealthy and were established in the 1700's and 1800's. They can continue to have $50,000 a year tuition for their wealthy students and use the endowments they have been building over the centuries to add socio-economic diversity in this more modern age.

The reality in Charlotte is we have a young city, with a public university established in 1965. Our private colleges like Davidson and Queens have stayed small. Among the top 50 universities in the country, all the public ones were founded in the 1800's, with the exception of the University of California schools: UCLA, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Davis all were rapidly funded and did not have much competition with entrenched private schools to attract the best students in the region. UNCC is not a private school, so for it to rapidly ascend in our life time to compete with schools that have 100-200 years of academic excellence, we can look at what California did (and try to avoid their failures that have plagued the system with budget problems the last 20 years).

UNC Charlotte in state tuition: $7,032
UNC Chapel Hill in state tuition: $8,562
UMass Lowell in state tuition: $13,427
UMass Amherst in state tuition: $14,171

Edited February 5, 2016 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

In all these area designations/designators does Raleigh include Durham County?

[Silicon Dogwoods]

21 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

None of Massachusetts public universities are particularly high ranking though. Flagship UMass Amherst was ranked #29 among national public universities and was established in 1863. New England benefits from private colleges that became incredibly wealthy and were established in the 1700's and 1800's. They can continue to have $50,000 a year tuition for their wealthy students and use the endowments they have been building over the centuries to add socio-economic diversity in this more modern age.

The reality in Charlotte is we have a young city, with public university established in 1965. Our private colleges like Davidson and Queens have stayed small. Among the top 50 universities in the country, all the public ones were founded in the 1800's, with the exception of the University of California schools: UCLA, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Davis all were rapidly funded and did not have much competition with entrenched private schools to attract the best students in the region. UNCC is not a private school, so for it to rapidly ascend in our life time to compete with schools that have 100-200 years of academic excellence, we can look at what California did (and try to avoid their failures that have plagued the system with budget problems the last 20 years).

UNC Chapel Hill is a top 50 school on most lists and was chartered in 1789, opening in 1793. Even so, GE didn't go to Raleigh.

UC Berkeley, the UC flagship, was founded 1868.

It doesn't really matter whether they're public or private. When you have Harvard and MIT, there's a halo effect.

 

21 minutes ago, Dale said:

Maybe, but I'd be willing to bet that if I randomly picked 100 Charlotteans off the street, NONE would want to relocate to Boston.

Wonder why GE didn't come to Charlotte, then? What's your point?

Edited February 5, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[CLT2014]

7 minutes ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

UNC Chapel Hill is a top 50 school on most lists and was chartered in 1789, opening in 1793. Even so, GE didn't go to Raleigh.

UC Berkeley, the UC flagship, was founded 1868.

It doesn't really matter whether they're public or private. When you have Harvard and MIT, there's a halo effect.

 

Yes, Berkeley and Chapel Hill add to my point: All of the elite public universities are over 100 years old with the exception of UCLA, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Davis. UNC Chapel Hill and NC State are among the 50 best public universities and both were founded more than 100 years ago. California is the ONLY state that has been able to move their colleges founded after 1900 into the top 50 public universities. There is an EXTREME halo effect from good colleges. The point is, it is going to be extremely challenging to catch UNC Charlotte up with schools that are over 100 years old and have momentum.

It will always be a hard thing for the Charlotte region, unless college changes from being physical location based someday.

Edited February 5, 2016 by CLT2014

[kermit]

10 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

In all these area designations/designators does Raleigh include Durham County?

Nope. Durham has been a separate MSA for more than a decade

https://www.nccommerce.com/lead/research-publications/the-lead-feed/artmid/11056/articleid/7/new-msa-designations-will-take-effect-with-january-2015-data-releases
 

Edited February 5, 2016 by kermit

[Silicon Dogwoods]

12 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Yes, Berkeley and Chapel Hill add to my point: All of the elite public universities are over 100 years old with the exception of UCLA, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Davis. UNC Chapel Hill and NC State are among the 50 elite public universities and both were founded more than 100 years ago. California is the ONLY state that has been able to move their colleges founded after 1900 into the top 50 public universities. There is an EXTREME halo effect from good colleges. The point is, it is going to be extremely challenging to catch UNC Charlotte up with schools that are over 100 years old and have momentum.

All it takes is money.

UCLA was nothing before WWII. Today, it's renowned.

We don't have California's money but we didn't need to hand out tax cuts willy nilly, either.

12 minutes ago, kermit said:

Nope. Durham has been a separate MSA for more than a decade

https://www.nccommerce.com/lead/research-publications/the-lead-feed/artmid/11056/articleid/7/new-msa-designations-will-take-effect-with-january-2015-data-releases
 

It's Raleigh-Cary and Durham-Chapel Hill.

Yes, they're separate.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[CLT2014]

19 minutes ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

All it takes is money.

UCLA was nothing before WWII. Today, it's renowned.

We don't have California's money but we didn't need to hand out tax cuts willy nilly, either.

I wish it was only money. We currently spend the sixth most per college student in the country, at $10,927 in the 2014-2015 school year. Our in state tuition is MUCH cheaper than other states for the quality of our schools. We rank the 6th highest on expenditures for a personal income basis. For every $1,000 in personal income, North Carolinians spend $9.49 on a public college student. That compares to $6.05 in California, $4.38 in Virginia, $3.70 in Massachusetts, $4.95 in New York, and $9.78 in Mississippi. So Mississippi spends more than California per student, but has worse universities.

Alaska, Wyoming, Hawaii, Illinois, and Connecticut are the five states spending more money per student ranking from $10,450 to $18,559. The University of Illinois - Urbana and University of Connecticut are both good. Otherwise, none of those states have particularly noteworthy public schools and are spending more than North Carolina. 

UNC Charlotte is getting more funding than most schools in the country. What we really need is a millionaire to come in and establish a better endowment and research facilities. That is the name of the game these days.

Edited February 5, 2016 by CLT2014

[Silicon Dogwoods]

9 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I wish it was only money. We currently spend the sixth most per college student in the country, at $10,927 in the 2014-2015 school year. Our in state tuition is MUCH cheaper than other states for the quality of our schools. We rank the 6th highest on expenditures for a personal income basis. For every $1,000 in personal income, North Carolinians spend $9.49 on a public college student. That compares to $6.05 in California, $4.38 in Virginia, $3.70 in Massachusetts, $4.95 in New York, and $9.78 in Mississippi. So Mississippi spends more than California per student, but has worse universities.

Alaska, Wyoming, Hawaii, Illinois, and Connecticut are the five states spending more money per student ranking from $10,450 to $18,559. The University of Illinois - Urbana and University of Connecticut are both good. Otherwise, none of those states have particularly noteworthy public schools and are spending more than North Carolina

It's also who gets the money and how it is spent. For example, Mississippi might be spending a lot to lower student tuition costs but doing that for students whose academic profiles indicate they're going to have difficulty graduating. They may not spend it on well-regarded faculty who can generate research dollars. High spending does not necessarily indicate excellence, but it's hard to achieve excellence without spending money.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[CLT2014]

1 minute ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

It's also who gets the money and how it is spent. High spending does not necessarily indicate excellence, but it's hard to achieve excellence without spending money.

Agree.

North Carolina has great schools in the Triangle and Wake Forest is great too. It is just a bummer Charlotte was left to have to make up lost ground and that our private schools have stayed small.

[QCxpat]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Agree.

North Carolina has great schools in the Triangle and Wake Forest is great too. It is just a bummer Charlotte was left to have to make up lost ground and that our private schools have stayed small.

I'm deep into a life-long love affair with Charlotte, a lovely citiy with so much potential to become a major global city.  I think about Charlotte all the time even though I haven't lived there in years.   Sadly, it says a great deal about education in the QC that Brian T. Moynihan, CEO of Charlotte's pre-eminent banking empire, BOA, refused to move his family to the Queen City citing the quality of the schools as the reason.  I was heartbroken! 

[CLT2014]

29 minutes ago, QCxpat said:

I'm deep into a life-long love affair with Charlotte, a lovely citiy with so much potential to become a major global city.  I think about Charlotte all the time even though I haven't lived there in years.   Sadly, it says a great deal about education in the QC that Brian T. Moynihan, CEO of Charlotte's pre-eminent banking empire, BOA, refused to move his family to the Queen City citing the quality of the schools as the reason.  I was heartbroken! 

I'm never aware of him saying anything about the quality of Charlotte's schools. He could send his kids to any private school or afford a house in the best school districts. I am aware he has made it clear he did not want to uproot his family and force his wife and kids to leave their friends by moving to Charlotte. Moving as a kid is tough and Moynihan was able to work it out where he uses the private jet extensively to fly between the major hubs in Charlotte, New York, Boston, London, Texas, Jacksonville, and California as well as events/meetings around the world without having to make his kid's lives change due to his career choice. His wife and kids would probably be so annoyed because after they gave up their personal lives to move for his job, he would just be on a private jet 80% of the time anyway flying to other hubs and meetings around the country, but they would know nobody here.

It is worth noting Moynihan has not technically reported to a physical office for years. Prior to being CEO, he was officially based in New York City, but continued to live in Boston. FleetBank allowed him to live in Boston and commute to the New York offices frequently... again, due to family. He's been used to being on the road and traveling, and he's decided to do that while CEO so his family can stay in one place.
 

Edited February 5, 2016 by CLT2014

[Silicon Dogwoods]

^^

That's been my understanding, too.

I've never been particularly bothered that he did not move here. He made clear Boston was home for his family. We live in a very mobile, interconnected world.

[QCxpat]

3 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

I'm never aware of him saying anything about the quality of Charlotte's schools. He could send his kids to any private school or afford a house in the best school districts. I am aware he has made it clear he did not want to uproot his family and force his wife and kids to leave their friends by moving to Charlotte. Moving as a kid is tough and Moynihan was able to work it out where he uses the private jet extensively to fly between the major hubs in Charlotte, New York, Boston, London, Texas, Jacksonville, and California as well as events/meetings around the world without having to make his kid's lives change due to his career choice. His wife and kids would probably be so annoyed because after they gave up their personal lives to move for his job, he would just be on a private jet 80% of the time anyway flying to other hubs and meetings around the country, but they would know nobody here.

It is worth noting Moynihan has not technically reported to a physical office for years. Prior to being CEO, he was officially based in New York City, but continued to live in Boston. FleetBank allowed him to live in Boston and commute to the New York offices frequently... again, due to family. He's been used to being on the road and traveling, and he's decided to do that while CEO so his family can stay in one place.
 

Really thoughtful explanation.  Helps me understand it a lot better.  Still picking the egg shells off my face     

[ah59396]

The US Census will release the 2015 Metro Population estimates on Thursday.  I estimate we will have somewhere close to 2.5 million in the metro and keep our position as the 22nd largest metro in the country.  We aren't catching Denver or Baltimore anytime soon.

[kermit]

6 hours ago, ah59396 said:

The US Census will release the 2015 Metro Population estimates on Thursday.  I estimate we will have somewhere close to 2.5 million in the metro and keep our position as the 22nd largest metro in the country.  We aren't catching Denver or Baltimore anytime soon.

Expect very high growth (no surprise), but not as fast as Raleigh.

[Temeteron]

Charlotte gained 47,186 from 2014-2015.  Kinda disappointing to see that we were 17th in the top 20. Interesting to see Orlando and Tampa gaining more people than Austin. Was expecting Austin to be higher on the list. Houston and Dallas....holy crap. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Temeteron

[Nick2]

Texas is absolutely killing it with population growth. Excellent numbers for NC too! And according to official census estimates, we did pass the 10 million mark back in December.

[QCxpat]

Census Bureau's 2015 Comparisons of the Queen City with its X-State rival, Raleigh:

Charlotte Metropolitan Statistical Area  -   2,426,363

Raleigh Metropolitan Statistical Area     -  1,273,568  (or 1,152,795 fewer than Charlotte)

Mecklenburg County  -  1,034,070

Wake County              -  1,024,198  (or 9,872 fewer than Mecklenburg)

Charlotte-Concord, NC-SC, Combined Statistical Area  -          2,583,956

Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC, Combined Stastical Area  -   2,117,103 (or 466,853 fewer than Charlotte-Concord CSA)

N.B.:  When I attended Carolina in the mid-70's, Raleigh always seemed like Dullsville compared to the Q.C.  

[Third Strike]

Our CSA should leapfrog Pittsburgh in a couple of years, but we won't get to overtake St. Louis until the mid-2020s. That will also be around the time the Charlotte CSA hits the 3 million mark, assuming no other counties other than Anson are added in the next Census. If the Unifour is ever added in the next Census, or the one after next, and maybe Chesterfield, then the Charlotte CSA could be pushing the 4 million mark, sometime in the 2030s.

[QCxpat]

Error - see below.  Thanks.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2016 by QCxpat

[QCxpat]

 

15 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Our CSA should leapfrog Pittsburgh in a couple of years, but we won't get to overtake St. Louis until the mid-2020s. That will also be around the time the Charlotte CSA hits the 3 million mark, assuming no other counties other than Anson are added in the next Census. If the Unifour is ever added in the next Census, or the one after next, and maybe Chesterfield, then the Charlotte CSA could be pushing the 4 million mark, sometime in the 2030s.

The Charlotte CSA should surpass the Pittsburg CSA within approximately 18 months of the Census Bureau's recent CSA estimates date (07/01/2015).   As of 07/01/2015 Pittsburg's CSA had 2,648,605 residents with a negative growth rate of -0.5% over the past 5 years.  Charlotte's CSA had 2,583,956 residents with a positive growth rate of 8.8% over the past 5 years.   Charlotte's CSA should nose past Pittsburg's CSA within approximately 18 months (12/31/2016).  At that time, the Charlotte CSA will have a small lead of just over 1,400 residents, and the Charlotte CSA should move up one place in the rankings to become the nation's 20th largest CSA.    

Edited March 26, 2016 by QCxpat

[jednc]

16 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Our CSA should leapfrog Pittsburgh in a couple of years, but we won't get to overtake St. Louis until the mid-2020s. That will also be around the time the Charlotte CSA hits the 3 million mark, assuming no other counties other than Anson are added in the next Census. If the Unifour is ever added in the next Census, or the one after next, and maybe Chesterfield, then the Charlotte CSA could be pushing the 4 million mark, sometime in the 2030s.

Having grown up in the Unifour, I can't tell you how weird that sounds to even think about being added to the Charlotte CSA. I'm neither for or against it...just really wierd to even contemplate.

[QCxpat]

2 hours ago, jednc said:

Having grown up in the Unifour, I can't tell you how weird that sounds to even think about being added to the Charlotte CSA. I'm neither for or against it...just really wierd to even contemplate.

Inclusion of the Unifour in the Charlotte-Concord CSA would occur once the Census Bureau makes a determination that the Unifour region meets the definitional threshold for a CSA, as set forth in federal regulations at 40 CFR 58.1.  Combined statistical area (CSA) is defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as a geographical area consisting of two or more adjacent Core Based Statistical Areas (CBSA) with employment interchange of at least 15 percent. Combination is automatic if the employment interchange is 25 percent, and determined by local opinion if more than 15 but less than 25 percent.

Somewhere else on the thread is a post that discusses the commuter interchange levels for each of the counties in the Unifour.  Sorry I can't locate that post right now or I'd copy it here.  As I recall, a couple of the counties in the Unifour are pretty close to the 15% commuter floor that could trigger inclusion in the Charlotte-Concord CSA, but none has reached the "employment interchange" (commuting) minimum yet.