Charlotte area population statistics

[KJHburg]

NC 's fastest growing cities and towns in percentage and absolute numbers.   

https://www.ncdemography.org/2019/10/24/where-are-ncs-fastest-growing-municipalities/

Apex must really be the peak of good living as they say.  It is the next Cary. 

sorry I posted the wrong link correct one is above 

Edited November 5, 2019 by KJHburg

[cltbwimob]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

Which means a LOT more dredging to keep the channel open with such a high sediment factor of Cape Fear River.

Don't you think that Morehead City is a competing factor too?  Savannah is Georgia's only port. Charleston is S.C's only whereas we have two.

I really don't understand the big deal in using Charleston or Savannah myself.  The water around those ports is pretty dirty compared to Kure Beach and Bald Head Island.  I'd almost rather have clean beaches.

Well, they are already planning on dredging the channel to allow for 14,000 TEU ships.   As for me, while I consider myself an environmentally conscious individual, I will gladly take the environmental concerns that come along with dredging in order to have a much more competitive economy in terms of manufacturing and logistics. Jobs in manufacturing and logistics often are beneficial to those on lower rungs of the economic ladder and can help people who have neither the means nor the ability to get a bachelors degree to live a middle-class lifestyle. Clean beaches advance a tourism economy, but in terms of economic development tourism Is not really a good staple sector. Industry and logistics are much better staple sectors.

With respect to the number of port facilities each state has, Georgia also has two ports (Savannah and Brunswick) and South Carolina used to have three (Charleston, Port Royal, and Georgetown) although two of those have since closed.  So, while it is true that South Carolina can pretty much pour all of its resources into Charleston, that was not historically the case. And it is not true that Georgia can pour all of its resources into Savanah.  Not only is Savanah one of the best container ports in the country, Brunswick is one of the most heavily utilized RoRo ports in the country.  So even with two ports to invest resources into, Georgia has managed to make them some of the best at their respective specialties.

[kermit]

11 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

I forget where I read it but I read that in a recent year-perhaps last year-Wilmington  processed ~225k TEU (Twenty ft Equivalent Units) of containers, Charleston processed 1.8M and Savannah processed 3.4M.  So to answer your question, Savannah process about 2 times the volume of Charleston which processes about 8 times the volume of Wilmington.

Compounding Wilmington’s problems is the fact that Charleston and Wilmington are essentially equidistant from Charlotte and points west. Even if we built Wilmington up to be Charleston’s equal, local shippers would have nothing to gain from using Wilmington instead of more established Charleston.

The lack of two railroads is a huge  problem for the port -- no shipper wants to commit regular calls to a port where inland rail service is not competitive. I think the easiest solution might be for NCDOT to purchase the CSX line from Goldsboro to Wallace (it continues to Wilmington but was abandoned and is now owned by NCDOT. NCDOT appears to have settled on this route for passenger service to ILM, and it’s gotta be a low priority for CSX since the only freight moving on it these days is hog feed. The line could then be leased to NS just like the remainder of the NCRR. Unfortunately there are not enough TEUs coming out of Wilmington so NS is unlikely to be willing to maintain the route so NCDOT would need to foot the maintenance costs.  This would also need to happen before the new Cape Fear rail crossing is designed as well since those plans look like they would stub end these tracks on the wrong side of town.

Edited November 5, 2019 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Atlanta's port is Savannah and Charlotte's port is Charleston (unfortunately for NC)   However I do agree NC is pouring more resources into Wilmington and make it is easier to use, more frozen warehouse and now it advertises how less congested it is than Savannah and Charleston too.   I read an interview a while back about NC Ports and they realize they can not catch up to Charleston much less than Savannah but they can grow and help NC exporters and importers.  I have been to both Georgia ports and the dedication of the state and investment is incredible.     

https://ncports.com/

Getting this back to population Wilmington was the largest city in the state based on the port and the old Atlantic Coastline Railroad  company that was based there.  When they merged with now CSX it ended a lot of growth in Wilmington and Charlotte soon passed Wilmington in population and never looked back.   1900 Wilmington was the largest city in the state by 1910 Charlotte was and has not lost the title since then.  

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Well, they are already planning on dredging the channel to allow for 14,000 TEU ships.   As for me, while I consider myself an environmentally conscious individual, I will gladly take the environmental concerns that come along with dredging in order to have a much more competitive economy in terms of manufacturing and logistics. Jobs in manufacturing and logistics often are beneficial to those on lower rungs of the economic ladder and can help people who have neither the means nor the ability to get a bachelors degree to live a middle-class lifestyle. Clean beaches advance a tourism economy, but in terms of economic development tourism Is not really a good staple sector. Industry and logistics are much better staple sectors.

 

This is where you and I vastly disagree. All those jobs don't mean a thing if you can't eat the fish and oysters from near those busy ports, let alone swim in the water without getting whelts on your skin (Sullivan's Island example).  That doesn't even begin to touch on the problem of the damage to the river and inlets.   And, "those on lower rungs " also vacation and need clean beaches. Not everyone can go to Figure Eight; this is why Kure and Carolina ARE so popular.

Again, what really is the big deal with going to Charleston or Savannah.?   Don't the folks from the "lower rungs" in those places deserve jobs too?  I'm not trying to be obstinate, but this business of moving the goal posts (sprawl, growth,  dredging wetlands, etc) for the sake of jobs has have push back.  This country has enough Long Beaches, New Jerseys, Texas Cities, Charlestons, Newport News. and on and on.  We need more protection for the environment.  Without that, jobs don't mean diddly. 

[Urban Cowboy]

It seems like an improved Wilmington or Morehead Port would service/benefit the Triangle more than CLT. Which is good for NC! 

Logistically, Charleston is the logical and closest port for CLT. Savannah or Jaxport are almost as close to CLT as Morehead mileage-wise, I believe.

[kermit]

4 minutes ago, Urban Cowboy said:

It seems like an improved Wilmington or Morehead Port would service/benefit the Triangle more than CLT. Which is good for NC!

Yes, this is true. But, there is very little manufacturing East of Greensboro that has a need for ocean shipping.

[Windsurfer]

26 minutes ago, kermit said:

Yes, this is true. But, there is very little manufacturing East of Greensboro that has a need for ocean shipping.

Unfortunately,  much of the push for expansion has to do with shipping wood pellets from our ground up trees to The UK. (See Enviva Corp.)

[cltbwimob]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

This is where you and I vastly disagree. All those jobs don't mean a thing if you can't eat the fish and oysters from near those busy ports, let alone swim in the water without getting whelts on your skin (Sullivan's Island example).  That doesn't even begin to touch on the problem of the damage to the river and inlets.   And, "those on lower rungs " also vacation and need clean beaches. Not everyone can go to Figure Eight; this is why Kure and Carolina ARE so popular.

Again, what really is the big deal with going to Charleston or Savannah.?   Don't the folks from the "lower rungs" in those places deserve jobs too?  I'm not trying to be obstinate, but this business of moving the goal posts (sprawl, growth,  dredging wetlands, etc) for the sake of jobs has have push back.  This country has enough Long Beaches, New Jerseys, Texas Cities, Charlestons, Newport News. and on and on.  We need more protection for the environment.  Without that, jobs don't mean diddly. 

I’m pretty sure most people would rather have a better job and less access to fresh seafood or a clean beach than the other way around.  Seafood is not generally necessary for people’s well-being as they can easily substitute other foodstuffs for seafood.  Most people I would suspect though would consider a good job to be imperative to their well-being.  Same with access to clean beaches.  People can vacation in the mountains.  Not saying that seafood or beaches are not important, I just suspect that most people would rather have a good job that affords them the opportunity to participate more freely in the economy even if that requires a trade off with respect to seafood or beaches.  
 

Even so, it is not clear to me that the implied premise is correct-that large port city environment’s are necessarily so degraded that residents of those cities have limited access to fresh seafood or limited opportunities for recreational usage of beaches in the vicinities of those cities.  Two of the most popular seafood destinations in the country are Charleston and Savannah, and some of the most popular beaches in the world are adjacent to large port cities.  
 

As for those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder in Charleston and Savannah,  they deserve every bit as much of a chance to work good jobs as those in NC (and indeed they have major industrial employers such as Boeing, Gulfstream, Mercedes Benz, etc that provide those opportunities).  I think that misses the point, though.  North Carolina and it’s government are agents of their citizenry.  As such it is incumbent on the NC government to act on behalf of the economic interest of its own citizens regardless of what’s going on in other states.  And if N.C. can divert some of the port business away from Charleston or Savannah and create new opportunities for its own citizens by investing in its own ports, then as agents of the NC population they should be expected to do so.  It is no different than a CEO of a major company acting on behalf of his or her shareholders.  The CEO of Bank of America should not be expected to act in the best interest of Wells Fargo shareholders and the NC government should not be expected to do what’s in the best interest of S.C. and Georgia residents by deliberately or through negligence refusing investment in their own citizens.  
 

Edit: Of course such a sentiment needs to be balanced against other concerns such as the environment, but I am not talking about a situation such as dumping heavy metal toxins directly into a river.  I am talking about a situation in which all requisite environmental permits are issued and all regulations pertaining to such issues are followed.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by cltbwimob

[Windsurfer]

13 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

I’m pretty sure most people would rather have a better job and less access to fresh seafood or a clean beach than the other way around.  Seafood is not generally necessary for people’s well-being as they can easily substitute other foodstuffs for seafood.  Most people I would suspect though would consider a good job to be imperative to their well-being.  Same with access to clean beaches.  People can vacation in the mountains.  Not saying that seafood or beaches are not important, I just suspect that most people would rather have a good job that affords them the opportunity to participate more freely in the economy even if that requires a trade off with respect to seafood or beaches.  
 

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, and I'll just throw this last thought (and leave) out since I've obviously helped hijack the thread:   I've lived in Charleston and I cannot begin to tell you the disgusting lack of environmental enforcement in that water. You could not pay me to eat any seafood, like oysters, that might have come from the area. (Make sure your Mahi Mahi came from the Gulfstream!). It' s nice to say jobs will lead to happier lifestyles,  higher standard of livings, ect.  But the truth is,  when it comes to upper management trying to appease shareholders, bilges get dumped at night, diesel overfilling happens and custom agents are way too busy to catch infractions.  Ports and the surrounding waters are filthy.  If i don't wash my wetsuits out, and take showers immediately after windsurfing Charleston or Southport, I have consequences to pay.  More industrialization is not the answer.  

And, by the way, I think you'll find most Lowlanders WOULD prefer sanitary seafood over jobs in a warehouse or loading dock. I have several friends who have lost their jobs come fishing season. ;-)

Seafood is the canary in the coalmine.

[cltbwimob]

3 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, and I'll just throw this last thought (and leave) out since I've obviously helped hijack the thread:   I've lived in Charleston and I cannot begin to tell you the disgusting lack of environmental enforcement in that water. You could not pay me to eat any seafood, like oysters, that might have come from the area. (Make sure your Mahi Mahi came from the Gulfstream!). It' s nice to say jobs will lead to happier lifestyles,  higher standard of livings, ect.  But the truth is,  when it comes to upper management trying to appease shareholders, bilges get dumped at night, diesel overfilling happens and custom agents are way too busy to catch infractions.  Ports and the surrounding waters are filthy.  If i don't wash my wetsuits out, and take showers immediately after windsurfing Charleston or Southport, I have consequences to pay.  More industrialization is not the answer.  

And, by the way, I think you'll find most Lowlanders WOULD prefer sanitary seafood over jobs in a warehouse or loading dock. I have several friends who have lost their jobs come fishing season. ;-)

Seafood is the canary in the coalmine.

I don’t really think you hijacked the thread, as I thought the coffee house was a place for off-topic and tangential discussions.  
 

And it’s always nice to have discussion where two people can fundamentally disagree on something without being disrespectful to each other. That has always been one thing that I have enjoyed about urban planet. Sadly though, I sense that the level of civility that used to be pervasive throughout threads in the urban planet has somewhat diminished.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by cltbwimob

[U_R_]

9 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Which means a LOT more dredging to keep the channel open with such a high sediment factor of Cape Fear River.

Don't you think that Morehead City is a competing factor too?  Savannah is Georgia's only port. Charleston is S.C's only whereas we have two.

I really don't understand the big deal in using Charleston or Savannah myself.  The water around those ports is pretty dirty compared to Kure Beach and Bald Head Island.  I'd almost rather have clean beaches.

As KJH mentioned above... you also have Port of Brunswick which specializes in car imports/exports. . In addition, the state of GA is working on building their second inland "port" in Gainesville. Your argument about NC having multiple ports doesn't make any sense. 

 Ports are often times a big deal since they bring in $$$ and often times encourage manufacturing since there is easy access to imports. 

http://gaports.com/about/economic-impact GA ports contributed 44 billion to GA's GDP or around 8%.

Just as a little speculation, I think the economic sectors that GA has chosen to "specialize" in over NC has also had an effect on the port by having easy access to imports/exports as an important factor. Overall, GA just has much more manufactored goods/logistics business than NC (NC still has a ton with Lowe's, Honeywell).  In GA you have HD, GPC, WRK, GA Pac and a lot of other companies and manufacturing facilities. In logistics you have UPS, Veritiv, and now NS. 

 

[urbanlover568]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:23 PM, Tyrone Wiggum said:

You're right: UNCC is probably one of the best community colleges in the country.

 

While you knock community colleges, a vast majority of UNCC graduates walk out with reduced debt from UNCC and CPCC's partnership.

[thenewkage95]

While you knock community colleges, a vast majority of UNCC graduates walk out with reduced debt from UNCC and CPCC's partnership.

FACTS! I’ll be graduating from UNCC in debt free in May because I have been able to work and put myself through school with the education I received from CPCC.


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[urbanlover568]

Just now, thenewkage95 said:

FACTS! I’ll be graduating from UNCC in debt free in May because I have been able to work and put myself through school with the education I received from CPCC.


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That's awesome! Congrats! 

[videtur quam contuor]

Students who transfer credits from community colleges to UNCC, most from CPCC but also others, complete their degree in a higher proportion than those who are "traditional" students who go straight from high school to UNCC. Source: previous Head of Admissions at UNCC.

This is not surprising as those who stay local in their CC are living at home, for the most part, and resolve their late adolescent-early adult issues prior to matriculating at the university. They have balanced their family, life, work, finances and are ready to commit in a way that 18 year olds may not be. Also, the separation of those unready has taken place at the CC level.

UNCC is OUR university and deserves respect.

[15895]

I went to Gaston Community College for Free on Pell grants (I actually had nearly 600$ left after books and all per semester). 

 

Once you graduate from an NC community college with an Associate in Arts degree (or whichever one it is.... I forgot!) , you are guaranteed entry to at least 1 state university and every single credit will transfer and you will go in as a Jr..

So I went from crappy Gaston then all of a sudden was a Jr. at UNCC. I was way too poor to go to a university, I worked full time too.  Now I have a high paying job in DC that I got because of UNCC's "Hire-a-Niner" career portal for students and landed several job offers with Fortune 500's all around the country my fall semester of my senior year at UNCC with a 3.2 something GPA and no extracurricular activities.  Oh, and I got the same position as those who went to Columbia Univesity, etc.  It's always amusing. Because I know lots of UNCC students who compete and win against the Ivy league schools with various Fortune 500's.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Emerging Trends in Real Estate 2019

I don't think this belongs here except to say....  no Georgia on this list but NC has two cities in the top 5.

 

 

[Temeteron]

33 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I went to Gaston Community College for Free on Pell grants (I actually had nearly 600$ left after books and all per semester). 

 

Once you graduate from an NC community college with an Associate in Arts degree (or whichever one it is.... I forgot!) , you are guaranteed entry to at least 1 state university and every single credit will transfer and you will go in as a Jr..

So I went from crappy Gaston then all of a sudden was a Jr. at UNCC. I was way too poor to go to a university, I worked full time too.  Now I have a high paying job in DC that I got because of UNCC's "Hire-a-Niner" career portal for students and landed several job offers with Fortune 500's all around the country my fall semester of my senior year at UNCC with a 3.2 something GPA and no extracurricular activities.  Oh, and I got the same position as those who went to Columbia Univesity, etc.  It's always amusing. Because I know lots of UNCC students who compete and win against the Ivy league schools with various Fortune 500's.

I also graduated from CPCC with an associates and then continued taking an evening class program to get my bachelors that Catawba College offered at CPCC.  Was very convenient as I didn’t want to commute all the way to Salisbury it even University City (decided not to go to UNCC).   I got my bachelors back in 2014 and have yet to find a job.  SMH

[jednc]

On 11/6/2019 at 9:33 AM, tarhoosier said:

"and resolve their late adolescent-early adult issues"

Sounds like CPCC could have helped Tyrone...

[Windsurfer]

On 11/6/2019 at 11:15 AM, AirNostrumMAD said:

I went to Gaston Community College for Free on Pell grants (I actually had nearly 600$ left after books and all per semester). 

 

Once you graduate from an NC community college with an Associate in Arts degree (or whichever one it is.... I forgot!) , you are guaranteed entry to at least 1 state university and every single credit will transfer and you will go in as a Jr..

So I went from crappy Gaston then all of a sudden was a Jr. at UNCC. I was way too poor to go to a university, I worked full time too.  Now I have a high paying job in DC that I got because of UNCC's "Hire-a-Niner" career portal for students and landed several job offers with Fortune 500's all around the country my fall semester of my senior year at UNCC with a 3.2 something GPA and no extracurricular activities.  Oh, and I got the same position as those who went to Columbia Univesity, etc.  It's always amusing. Because I know lots of UNCC students who compete and win against the Ivy league schools with various Fortune 500's.

What was your major?

[15895]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

What was your major?

For UNCC? Finance.

 

For the community colleges, I forget what they call them. But everyone who wants to TRansfer into a 4 year and become an automatic Jr. has to graduate with a certai major in community college which as I said, I forget the name. Like. Something with Arts in the name

[Windsurfer]

Just curious. My wife teaches and does some advising out there at UNCC.   The big thing these days is the tracts they're 'encouraged' to follow.  There's even an app for it so that freshmen will figure out what they want to be the rest of their lives before they even take electives.  

Congrats on your success!

Edited November 15, 2019 by Windsurfer
spelling

[thenewkage95]

Just curious. My wife teaches and does some advising out there at UNCC.   The big thing these days is the tracts they're 'encouraged' to follow.  There's even an app for it so that freshmen will figure out what they want to be the rest of their lives before they even take electives.  
Congrats on your success!

You mean majors? All schools have had those since the beginning of time.


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[Windsurfer]

14 minutes ago, thenewkage95 said:

You mean majors? All schools have had those since the beginning of time.


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I'm talking about the expediency and sense of fast tracking.  In the universities' efforts to showcase how so many students graduate in four years, they're not allowing for folks to shop around, so to speak, and try different majors.   She has students coming to her really stressed out over the majors they committed to early on, but now have second thoughts.