Charlotte area population statistics

[rancenc]

Follow up article to @Temeteronabove posting.  Very expressive figures for the Tarheel state!

https://www.thecentersquare.com/north_carolina/census-data-shows-north-carolina-is-one-of-the-fastest-growing-states/article_564cdc9e-822a-11ed-a2b8-6b676af4afb6.html

[KJHburg]

Here is a quick chart from the Biz Journal and NC has gained the 3rd most residents in numbers and ranks 9th in growth percentage.

""Here are the top 10 states that saw the most numeric growth from July 2021-22:

Texas — 470,708
Florida — 416,754
North Carolina — 133,088
Georgia — 124,847
Arizona — 94,320
South Carolina — 89,368
Tennessee — 82,988
Washington — 45,041
Utah — 41,687
Idaho — 34,719
After a historically low rate of change in 2020 and 2021, the U.S. population increased by 1,256,003 to 333,287,557 in 2022.""

""Here are the top 10 most populous states as of July 2022:

California - 39,029,342
Texas - 30,029,572
Florida - 22,244,823
New York - 19,677,151
Pennsylvania - 12,972,008
Illinois - 12,582,032
Ohio - 11,756,058
Georgia - 10,912,876
North Carolina - 10,698,973
Michigan - 10,034,113""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/12/23/north-carolina-south-carolina-growth-census-bureau.html

Oregon losing people?  that is all Portland I am sure. 

[15895]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Here is a quick chart from the Biz Journal and NC has gained the 3rd most residents in numbers and ranks 9th in growth percentage.

""Here are the top 10 states that saw the most numeric growth from July 2021-22:

Texas — 470,708
Florida — 416,754
North Carolina — 133,088
Georgia — 124,847
Arizona — 94,320
South Carolina — 89,368
Tennessee — 82,988
Washington — 45,041
Utah — 41,687
Idaho — 34,719
After a historically low rate of change in 2020 and 2021, the U.S. population increased by 1,256,003 to 333,287,557 in 2022.""

""Here are the top 10 most populous states as of July 2022:

California - 39,029,342
Texas - 30,029,572
Florida - 22,244,823
New York - 19,677,151
Pennsylvania - 12,972,008
Illinois - 12,582,032
Ohio - 11,756,058
Georgia - 10,912,876
North Carolina - 10,698,973
Michigan - 10,034,113""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/12/23/north-carolina-south-carolina-growth-census-bureau.html

Oregon losing people?  that is all Portland I am sure. 

It could very well be from rural Oregon. Rural Oregon has been fairing as well as rural NC… and those conservatives are fleeing to states that share their values. 

During the worst of Covid and the craziness of 2020, there was a decline in Portland proper as with most of the densest large cities due to lockdowns. Even then, the 3 county metro area still gained population the entire time. The Portland metro area even had the 10th strongest job growth among largest metro areas in 2021. 

Portland State University actually predicted Oregon grew in population with gains in the urban metro areas (Portland & Bend) off setting rural losses. 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[DCMetroRaleigh]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

It could very well be from rural Oregon. Rural Oregon has been fairing as well as rural NC… and those conservatives are fleeing to states that share their values. 

During the worst of Covid and the craziness of 2020, there was a decline in Portland proper as with most of the densest large cities due to lockdowns. Even then, the 3 county metro area still gained population the entire time. The Portland metro area even had the 10th strongest job growth among largest metro areas in 2021. 

Portland State University actually predicted Oregon grew in population with gains in the urban metro areas (Portland & Bend) off setting rural losses. 

 

I don’t know if it’s had any impact on population,  but the continuous unrest in Portland has definitely made some view the city as less desirable. 

[15895]

15 hours ago, DCMetroRaleigh said:

I don’t know if it’s had any impact on population,  but the continuous unrest in Portland has definitely made some view the city as less desirable. 

I mean, Portland’s metropolitan area had more people in 2021 than 2019. 

And again, rural Oregon has been bleeding people. So I don’t think all of a sudden Portland’s fortunes will have reversed. Particularly as data points start to emerge post pandemic (which for most large, dense, urban liberal cities, the post pandemic world really only started in spring 2022.) 

But we shall see. The views of Texas, Florida, Desantis/Abbott, don’t say gay, voter suppression, the abortion thing where anyone can sue, etc is viewed super negatively by a lot of people but they’re still growing more than ever 

Edited December 24, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I mean, Portland’s metropolitan area had more people in 2021 than 2019. 

And again, rural Oregon has been bleeding people. So I don’t think all of a sudden Portland’s fortunes will have reversed. Particularly as data points start to emerge post pandemic (which for most large, dense, urban liberal cities, the post pandemic world really only started in spring 2022.) 

But we shall see. The views of Texas, Florida, Desantis/Abbott, don’t say gay, voter suppression, the abortion thing where anyone can sue, etc is viewed super negatively by a lot of people but they’re still growing more than ever 

Knowing what I know now, I would've bought on the Washington side of The Columbia instead of where we are now.  (I'm looking at the Washington side right now through my window) I just didn't do my homework and was trying to get close to some friends.  If you notice, Washington grew fairly well.  I bet if you looked at Vancouver, Wa, or Camas, or White Salmon, or Stevenson, you'd see a bump.  One word: taxes.  The state income tax is over 10% now.  None in Washington.  Heckfire, I even sold one house two years ago while still a permanent resident of NC.  Oregon has  on the closing document a place for any "non resident" to calculate 4% tax on net gains.  And, they WILL hunt you down if there's an inconsistency.

Portland and Multnomah county also have additional fees and taxes in order to support the social causes.  The generosity is killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I know a boat load of people who want to stay in Portland (we're about 50 miles away) but are looking to Washington now.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The political backlash to recent events in Portland and Oregon has been so great the state almost elected a very conservative to governor. 

[15895]

2 hours ago, DCMetroRaleigh said:

The political backlash to recent events in Portland and Oregon has been so great the state almost elected a very conservative to governor. 

I mean. In a 3 way election, the Lib still won by 4%. By about the same margin as Cooper did in NC. The republicans got the same amount of the vote in Oregon in 2018 as they did in 2022.

A democrat in the senate race won by 14%.

Democrats won 4/6 House races. And the state is controlled by Democrats on all levels. The results were dramatically different than what anyone was expecting and this was supposed to be a “wave election” for The Republicans. 

If anything, the only rebuke & backlash  has been against extreme hyperbole of the far right about Portland, Transgender people, Drag Queens, looting/rioting that is supposedly happening in the large cities, jailing women for abortion. I mean. It was a historical upset. Only a few times in history has the party in power not lost much. 

Republicans did much, much  better in Mecklenburg County than they did in Multnomah County, about the same as Hood County and Washington County. 

So if people in Portland were so dissatisfied with the Libs, not sure why the republicans only got 1/2 the support they could in Mecklenburg county. I’m not sure why the Portland Metropolitan area went way bluer than Charlotte’s metropolitan area if there was a backlash. 

Looting, rioting, cities burning, smash & grab, stolen elections, etc aren't winning messages. Period. 

To me, it makes more sense of what Windsurfer talked about. People in rural, exurban and some suburban parts  of Oregon probably are paying higher taxes and think they should move somewhere else where they have the same lifestyle and lower taxes. Rural areas have to be subsidized… When you want to live away from the city, it cost more money. The urban areas subsidize rural and some suburban areas. Even in NC, doesn’t like 25% of revenue come from Mecklenburg? I don’t blame people for moving to a state where they pay less in taxes and have the same amenities. I don’t know why they wouldn’t do that, TBH. If you can move to a state that subsidizes your life style, go for it. But that’s a real reason people may be fleeing rural Oregon. Issues of taxes, etc. It’s not about Drag Queen story time… 

People want their free roads. People want their free free free subsidized stuff in the rural & some suburban areas. So they can go where the government subsidizes their lifestyle. But that’s a real substantive issue, substantive disagreement. But people in Portland did not randomly change their ideology… 

Edited December 25, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[Windsurfer]

10 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I mean. In a 3 way election, the Lib still won by 4%. By about the same margin as Cooper did in NC. The republicans got the same amount of the vote in Oregon in 2018 as they did in 2022.

A democrat in the senate race won by 14%.

Democrats won 4/6 House races. And the state is controlled by Democrats on all levels. The results were dramatically different than what anyone was expecting and this was supposed to be a “wave election” for The Republicans. 

If anything, the only rebuke & backlash  has been against extreme hyperbole of the far right about Portland, Transgender people, Drag Queens, looting/rioting that is supposedly happening in the large cities, jailing women for abortion. I mean. It was a historical upset. Only a few times in history has the party in power not lost much. 

Republicans did much, much  better in Mecklenburg County than they did in Multnomah County, about the same as Hood County and Washington County. 

So if people in Portland were so dissatisfied with the Libs, not sure why the republicans only got 1/2 the support they could in Mecklenburg county. I’m not sure why the Portland Metropolitan area went way bluer than Charlotte’s metropolitan area if there was a backlash. 

Looting, rioting, cities burning, smash & grab, stolen elections, etc aren't winning messages. Period. 

To me, it makes more sense of what Windsurfer talked about. People in rural, exurban and some suburban parts  of Oregon probably are paying higher taxes and think they should move somewhere else where they have the same lifestyle and lower taxes. Rural areas have to be subsidized… When you want to live away from the city, it cost more money. The urban areas subsidize rural areas. Even in NC, doesn’t like 25% of revenue come from Mecklenburg? I don’t blame people for moving to a state where they pay less in taxes and have the same amenities. I don’t know why they wouldn’t do that, TBH. If you can move to a state that subsidizes your life style, go for it. But that’s a real reason people may be fleeing rural Oregon. Issues of taxes, etc. It’s not about Drag Queen story time… 

People want their free roads. People want their free free free subsidized stuff in the rural area. So they can go where the government subsidizes their lifestyle. But that’s a real substantive issue, substantive disagreement. But people in Portland did not randomly change their ideology… 

Jo Ann Hardesty, very liberal  incumbent city council member of Portland, lost her seat to a conservative.  That loss can be directly tied to her openent's opinions on the houseless situation here. She really didn't offer any solutions or concern while being interviewed locally. Basically, she just said there's not a problem and we should just be generous to them. That's true, (about being generous)  but a conservative fellow named Gonzalez came out firing with specific ideas about the houseless. He beat her definitively. 

In addition to the income tax here in Oregon, there's also an inheritance tax of between 10-16% on anything above a million. I know that might sound fair, but out east of Portland, where all the wheat farms are, you're talking about hundreds of acres of land that farmers want to bequeath to their heirs. 

 

[15895]

8 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

Jo Ann Hardesty, very liberal  incumbent city council member of Portland, lost her seat to a conservative.  That loss can be directly tied to her openent's opinions on the houseless situation here. She really didn't offer any solutions or concern while being interviewed locally. Basically, she just said there's not a problem and we should just be generous to them. That's true, (about being generous)  but a conservative fellow named Gonzalez came out firing with specific ideas about the houseless. He beat her definitively. 

In addition to the income tax here in Oregon, there's also an inheritance tax of between 10-16% on anything above a million. I know that might sound fair, but out east of Portland, where all the wheat farms are, you're talking about hundreds of acres of land that farmers want to bequeath to their heirs. 

 

A city council race on a local issue is being spun into “Oregon is losing people, it’s probably all from Portland” when it’s likely to be from rural Oregon…  & yet the Republicans performed way, way worse in the Portland area than Charlotte.

The Republicans had an extremely disappointing showing in Oregon. I think it’s fair to say that’s fact. I also think it’s fair to say, it’s a fact that  Democrats maintained a stranglehold on Oregon. Even if they lost a super majority, I’d still say they control the levers pretty solidly… on a Republican wave election….

It’s also fair to say that it’s fact that preliminary numbers showed Portland MSA having a larger population in 2021 than in 2019. 

But this will never end. 1 Starbucks closes in DC (when it was really due to the store voting on being unionized) 3 open the same month and a Wegmans opens the same day. National outrage, “ohhhh, a Starbucks closed, the chaos, the carnage, looting, rioting, drag queens!” Never mind the Starbucks a few blocks down that road or that they open a giant nice new Starbucks in Anacostia… never mind hundreds (424) of Starbucks have closed all over America. 

How many areas are now more liberal & blue than Portland after this election? How many more states have as large of a Dem majority as Oregon? 

But it’s not going to change. The national hysteria of Portland, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Minneapolis, DC, Boston, Seattle, Philadelphia are here to stay. We’ll be told people are fleeing manhattan, it’s dead, as they dazzle and dream of having a fraction of those 1000 footers towers being built there left & right. 

It’s just Mastery how this hysteria has taken hold. It’s the new “War on Christmas”.

And it’s also frustrating - on a side note - people who are subsidized by urban counties constantly calling urbanites free loaders. It’s like.  Here’s a proposal for North Carolina. No counties pay state tax, every county gets to keep their tax revenue. Let’s see how Lincoln County likes that. 

[krazeeboi]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:14 PM, Phillydog said:

Came across information about the land area of US metro areas.  In the national narrative, the growth of NC (and SC) are lost to the news people because we are so multi-nodal.  Florida and Texas are also multi-nodal and the growth of the cities in Texas especially, deserve national attention.  However, Tennessee, Georgia, Washington State, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, among the fast growing states have one  dominate and rapidly growing city.  The Census definitions don't help outsiders see it either.  Raleigh-Durham should be one metro; Atlanta, GA is near nearly 3 times the land area of Charlotte (8200 sq. km).  If Charlotte's metro were 22,500 sq km it would include Greenville, Spartanburg, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Hickory and the population would be around 6,100,000 -essentially the same size as Atlanta, Roxwell, Alpharetta, Athens.

I'd say the the reasons the rapid growth of the Carolinas typically gets lost in the national news shuffle  is largely due to 1) having been significantly overshadowed in both population size and growth rates by FL and TX well over the past half century within the South/Sunbelt and 2) its largest and fastest-growing cities and popular beach destinations (Hilton Head somewhat excluded) not being located directly along I-95. If they were,  they'd enjoy greater exposure to more Americans traveling up and down the nation's busiest interstate which would, in turn, influence general perceptions of the region for outsiders concerning growth. Also the politicization of state population growth rates of the largest states dominates much of the conversation these days with growing red/reddish TX, FL, and AZ vs. shrinking blue CA, NY, and IL having become representative of our ongoing partisan polarization as a nation to the extent that even their elected leaders (of the growing Sunbelt states anyway) have been engaging. The Carolinas don't really have a dog in that fight, especially without any blue states to the north that could easily be cast as opposite counterparts for political purposes. 

I don't think the size of the largest metros of both states specifically have anything to do with it. Most people still continue to regard Raleigh-Durham as one larger region or metro, and metro Atlanta is nearly three times larger than metro Charlotte physically because that is a reflection of the actual sizes of both places more or less, not because the boundaries of metro areas are arbitrarily determined. Charlotte's metro area absolutely should not include Greenville, Spartanburg, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, or Hickory because they are their own distinct, independent labor markets whereas Roswell and Alpharetta are thoroughly and unquestionably suburban Atlanta, located within the same county as Atlanta, and fully included within greater Atlanta's urbanized area (Athens, of course, has its own distinct identity and history but is in the Atlanta CSA, not MSA).

[Windsurfer]

16 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

It’s also fair to say that it’s fact that preliminary numbers showed Portland MSA having a larger population in 2021 than in 2019. 

 

Don't forget, Washington State is just across the river from Portland and is part of that MSA.  For an eye-opener, look at the growth of Vancouver and Camas, WA.

[Temeteron]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

Don't forget, Washington State is just across the river from Portland and is part of that MSA.  For an eye-opener, look at the growth of Vancouver and Camas, WA.

Yes.  Interesting fact, I work for AA and our hotel layover  used to be in downtown Portland but since Covid and the riots and homeless issues they’ve moved us to Vancouver, WA.  Sucks because I remember my first time in Portland in 2015 and it was such an amazing city. Hopefully things turn around.  

[kayman]

Catawba County is actually advertising & promoting itself as part of Greater Charlotte these days. Hickory being a separate labor market from Charlotte is a thing of the past. It says it's now one of Charlotte's submarkets.

https://media.bizj.us/view/img/11939286/2021-01-2014-41-30.png

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/paid-content/forward-together/2020/catawba-county-north-carolina.html

It wouldn't be farfetched if Catawba winds up a part of the Charlotte CSA in the 2020 or 2030 designated area compositions. The Charlotte urban area is already on the western side of Lake Norman along NC 150 in Catawba County. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by kayman

[15895]

Ignoring the politics and speculation, a good sign for most cities is that DC has posted population gains per the census (it’s the same data set as the population numbers above.) So that should be good for most US cities as DC was among the hardest hit in declines in the pandemic. 

I predict growth spikes and then returns to pre-pandemic normalcy of growth for DC. The city is adding (Under Construction as of 2Q22 as many Multifamily units as the entire Charlotte metropolitan area so it seems impossible not to.).

I’m really interested to see how the NC metropolitan areas shake out (I think the city data is released later this week?) Specifically Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte.

xD I’m surely not the only weirdo who loves Census numbers???

Anyone else have fun speculations or anything? 

[Temeteron]

47 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Ignoring the politics and speculation, a good sign for most cities is that DC has posted population gains per the census (it’s the same data set as the population numbers above.) So that should be good for most US cities as DC was among the hardest hit in declines in the pandemic. 

I predict growth spikes and then returns to pre-pandemic normalcy of growth for DC. The city is adding (Under Construction as of 2Q22 as many Multifamily units as the entire Charlotte metropolitan area so it seems impossible not to.).

I’m really interested to see how the NC metropolitan areas shake out (I think the city data is released later this week?) Specifically Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte.

xD I’m surely not the only weirdo who loves Census numbers???

Anyone else have fun speculations or anything? 

I’m obsessed with census numbers!! It’s so interesting to see the changes!  I thought metro area numbers are released in March? 

[15895]

4 hours ago, Temeteron said:

I’m obsessed with census numbers!! It’s so interesting to see the changes!  I thought metro area numbers are released in March? 

Ok, they might be. I’m much better at being a sheeple and waiting for the smart kids to compile the numbers. 
 

I could’ve swore I read somewhere that like the very end of December there would be more bumbes that I thought would be metropolitan numbers. Maybe I’m wrong and spreading fake news though xD 

[kayman]

Urban area numbers are being released this week. Statistical area designations will be released this upcoming spring (2023).

[15895]

I think the urban area numbers came out 

(Population / Sq. miles)

Charlotte: 1,379,873 / 658 Sq. Miles 

Durham: 396,118 / 183 Sq. Miles 

Raleigh: 1,106,646 / 555 Sq. Miles 

Greensboro: 338,928 / 169 Sq. Miles

Winston: 429,924 / 311 Sq. Miles 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/12/29/2022-28286/2020-census-qualifying-urban-areas-and-final-criteria-clarifications

Edited December 29, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[kermit]

^ I believe there has been some redefinition of urban and rural this year so the numbers may not be directly comparable to past years.

From the document linked above:

Quote

On March 24, 2022, the Census Bureau published the criteria, Urban Area Criteria for the 2020 Census—Final Criteria (87 FR 16706) for the delineation of the 2020 Census urban areas. Upon additional review, the Census Bureau determined that clarification and additional information were needed to enable a better understanding of the process the Census Bureau used to define the final 2020 Census urban areas. The clarifications are informed by the Census Bureau's experience in delineating urban areas and by questions from the public. These clarifications make the criteria easier to understand, provide consistent interpretation, and ensure the criteria are in accordance with the delineation of the 2020 Census urban areas.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by kermit

[15895]

7 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I think the urban area numbers came out 

(Population / Sq. miles)

Charlotte: 1,379,873 / 658 Sq. Miles 

Durham: 396,118 / 183 Sq. Miles 

Raleigh: 1,106,646 / 555 Sq. Miles 

Greensboro: 338,928 / 169 Sq. Miles

Winston: 429,924 / 311 Sq. Miles 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/12/29/2022-28286/2020-census-qualifying-urban-areas-and-final-criteria-clarifications

Now that work is done for the day… If anyone was wondering, 

Charlotte’s Urban Area actually decreased by over 100,000. (It was 1,523,844)

Raleigh increased from 1,074,720. 
 

As Kermit pointed out, new definitions and ways Urban Areas are defined was unfavorable to Charlotte & favorable to Raleigh. It’s extremely unlikely the region had actually lost population for so many metrics that it’s virtually impossible. It’s just all how Urban Areas are defined and calculated. And these numbers will be on the books for 10 years. 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

so wait are we throwing out the old MSA definitions altogether and going with these urban areas?  Or just waiting to the spring for the regular MSA by county definitions?

[kermit]

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

so wait are we throwing out the old MSA definitions altogether and going with these urban areas? 

No, this is an entirely different definition of urban. Urbanized area refers to the contiguous 'built up' portion of a metro and it excludes more rural portions within metros. I believe they are compiled and bounded using Census Blocks (not counties). These have been published along side metro definitions for ages. Census changed the criteria for what Blocks are considered to be 'urbanized' (how much density they need to be considered urban rather than rural) in 2020 which is why they are not comparable to past data on urbanized areas (disclaimer: I have not looked at this change in detail yet I am only working from what I have heard colleagues say)

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Or just waiting to the spring for the regular MSA by county definitions?

They are still coming, but I believe the OMB is going to change the definition of MSA again (e.g. what criteria are used to identify outlying counties to be included in the MSA). Since MSAs have always been defined using physical commute data, remote work may cause the new MSA data to be VERY different than our current data. I suspect nearly all MSAs will look 10-15% smaller in the next data release (due to the revised definitions) -- this is going to be a very messy data cycle.

Edited December 30, 2022 by kermit

[KJHburg]

actually this article I found explained it a little better for me but from this NC's newest urban area will be Kill Devil Hills, Nags Head and Kitty Hawk and Duck. 

https://www.wtoc.com/2022/12/29/us-census-bureau-redefines-meaning-urban-america/

""For the first time, the Census Bureau is adding housing units to the definition of an urban area. A place can be considered urban if it has at least 2,000 housing units, based on the calculation that the average household has 2.5 people.

Among the beneficiaries of using housing instead of people are resort towns in ski or beach destinations, or other places with lots of vacation homes, since they can qualify as urban based on the number of homes instead of full-time residents.

“There are many seasonal communities in North Carolina and this change in definition to housing units may be helpful in acknowledging that these areas are built up with roads, housing, and for at least one part of the year, host many thousands of people,” Cline said.""

Dare County home of the OBX has 38,826 residents according to the census with a staggering 34,736 housing units!  Almost one house per person due the massive number of 2nd homes. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/darecountynorthcarolina,killdevilhillstownnorthcarolina/PST045222

Dare County has one of highest number of homes per person ratios in the country.  Here are some photos from metro KDH, Nags Head and Duck. 

IN terms of Charlotte region it looks like some towns in our metro region will be called rural and others urban.  Perhaps like a Harrisburg would be urban but a Mt Pleasant also in Cabarrus will be a rural.   This reminds me of the complicated USDA loan areas which include parts of Meck county which most would not consider an area for US Dept of Agriculture mortgage loan. 

 

[kayman]

I've been told by several US Census employees off the record that this whole 2020 census count was trash and botched by political meddling (by the Trump administration). The methodologies chose for the statistical designations from urban areas to metropolitan statistical areas and consolidated statistical areas were to make something of this botched data. If anything you all should be extremely skeptical about this data. Also they even admitted the paid demographic data held by the private sector used for advertisers and commercial users will be much more accurate than this decennial count.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by kayman