Charlotte area population statistics

[KJHburg]

31 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

Don’t forget Jacksonville is a combined city/county so not a fair comparison 

Exactly they have plenty of room to grow but St Johns County to the south is growing really fast but JAX has plenty of room to keep growing inside the city limits.  

Charlotte has twice the density of JAX and Jacksonville Duval is well  over twice as big as Charlotte in square miles. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/charlottecitynorthcarolina,jacksonvillecityflorida/PST045222

[kermit]

 

• one year growth numbers don’t mean much
• I thought everyone was leaving California?
• I never thought I would see a Wisconsin city outgrow Charlotte
• Nice to see Durham represent! 

[Temeteron]

41 minutes ago, kermit said:

 

• one year growth numbers don’t mean much
• I thought everyone was leaving California?
• I never thought I would see a Wisconsin city outgrow Charlotte
• Nice to see Durham represent! 

Madison is probably mostly Chicago transplants.  After living in Chicago for over a year now I’ve realized that the majority of people who tend to move around are usually from other parts of the Midwest.  

[videtur quam contuor]

Madison is beautiful.  The university with the grand student union overlooking Lake Mendota and the the state capitol on Lake Monona. Drink a fine German beer on a summer afternoon with the clouds reflected in the lake surface and think how much worse life could be. Polka music in the background. Bicycles all around. I wish I were there now.*

 

* The greatest find in my life was in Madison. I saw a bracelet in the dust in the gutter at an intersection as I was walking. No one nearby appeared to be the loser. I kept it for a few years until gold prices rose and sold it for 1000$

[kermit]

2 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

* The greatest find in my life was in Madison. I saw a bracelet in the dust in the gutter at an intersection as I was walking. No one nearby appeared to be the loser. I kept it for a few years until gold prices rose and sold it for 1000$

I am VERY impressed, particularly in contrast to my greatest find. After many drinks in Bucktown-Chicago I looked down at found 3 $20 bills on the sidewalk and I was the only person in sight. I was super pleased with myself and went for more drinks and I tipped really well (for Khama). I realized (hungover) the next morning that the money on the sidewalk had come from my own pocket.

Edited May 20, 2023 by kermit

[15895]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Exactly they have plenty of room to grow but St Johns County to the south is growing really fast but JAX has plenty of room to keep growing inside the city limits.  

Charlotte has twice the density of JAX and Jacksonville Duval is well  over twice as big as Charlotte in square miles. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/charlottecitynorthcarolina,jacksonvillecityflorida/PST045222

All that stuff about Jacksonville is equally as applicable to Charlotte.  Was that your point? 

In other census news - I’m surprised Seattle had such high growth rates. I knew they were having an insane amount of dense urban growth. But I didn’t necessarily think it would translate to such a strong population growth. 

 

Large parts of Seattle seem to have similar intense dense developments just growing like weeds. Dozens of towers just flying up everywhere - and it’s nice development too.
 
Makes me wonder what the UP poster AH5463746 (or whatever the digits were) is up to who moved to Seattle. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

Growth rate of the metro area counties by percentages:  (2 fastest growing metro counties in bold) 

https://www.ncdemography.org/2023/06/01/most-growth-in-triangle-and-along-ncs-coast/

Mecklenburg 1.7%

Cabarrus 1.8%

Gaston 1.2%

Iredell 1.9%

Lincoln 3.6%

Rowan 1.1%

Union 2%

 

[kermit]

Interesting perspective here (particularly for Cleveland). I would bet these data dramatically underrepresent 20 year olds (kids don’t like big banks) — which makes these numbers for Charlotte and Austin even more impressive.

But beware, the growth rates they are showing are nearly all less than 1% per year, this is MUCH slower growth than pre-pandemic days.

Quote

"Our analysis for migration pattern is based on the group of Bank of America customers who had an open consumer checking, savings, credit and/or other investment accounts for every quarter between 4Q 2018 & 1Q 2023"

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by kermit

[JacksonH]

On 6/8/2023 at 6:44 AM, kermit said:

Interesting perspective here (particularly for Cleveland). I would bet these data dramatically underrepresent 20 year olds (kids don’t like big banks) — which makes these numbers for Charlotte and Austin even more impressive.

But beware, the growth rates they are showing are nearly all less than 1% per year, this is MUCH slower growth than pre-pandemic days.

 

Very interesting data.  I would have to think that being at the far end of either side of this chart is not a good thing.  For obvious reasons, no city wants to lose population.  But the extreme growth that Austin is experiencing, how is that even manageable?  So many people showing up at once will inevitably bring all kind of problems, challenging city resources and infrastructure, along with causing housing costs to soar.  I would have  to think that Charlotte is in a pretty good place in terms of growth: it's growing steadily and quickly, but not beyond all ability to manage it.

[go_vertical]

2 hours ago, JacksonH said:

Very interesting data.  I would have to think that being at the far end of either side of this chart is not a good thing.  For obvious reasons, no city wants to lose population.  But the extreme growth that Austin is experiencing, how is that even manageable?  So many people showing up at once will inevitably bring all kind of problems, challenging city resources and infrastructure, along with causing housing costs to soar.  I would have  to think that Charlotte is in a pretty good place in terms of growth: it's growing steadily and quickly, but not beyond all ability to manage it.

Charlotte had its own example of this when there was the sudden and urgent need to expand waste water capacity in South End and other areas further south.  I remember there were talks of a potential moratorium on approving new projects until a plan for water capacity expansion was finalized.  Growth was a little more brisk then and we still weren't experiencing the population explosion that Austin is and has been dealing with.  I love and welcome steady and healthy growth, but there are limits and I can only imagine how frustrating things are getting for long time residents over there.

[kermit]

Charlotte, the new Atlanta:

Edited June 26, 2023 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

The Columbus Ohio figure sent me on a search and I found the murders in Columbus for 2021 and 2022 were 207 and 139.

https://dayton247now.com/news/local/columbus-sees-huge-drop-in-homicides-burglaries-robberies-in-2022-youth-crime-gun-violence-illegal-firearms-car-thefts-kia-boys-hyundai-juvenile-judges-city-central-ohio

Charlotte? 98 and 106.

Indianapolis and Jacksonville, also comparable population cities, had far more murders in  2021 and 2022 than Charlotte. Are we doing something they are not, or are we avoiding something they are not aware of?

[Professor]

19 hours ago, kermit said:

Charlotte, the new Atlanta:

 We sure hope not. That would be a nightmare anyway you look at it. 

 

[15895]

Again with not wanting to be like Atlanta… Obviously Charlotte becoming “like Atlanta” is a huge fear here that needs to be reiterated several times weekly so hopefully the below will relieve people’s fears:

- Atlanta is by far the largest & most important metro outside of Texas, FL & VA in the south. Something catastrophic would have to happen for Charlotte to get anywhere near Atlanta as a peer or a Houston/Dallas level of equals. 

- Atlanta is a state Capital of a fast growing state 

- Atlanta will likely always be the uncontested heavyweight of the south and always have dibs on stuff

- Atlanta has MARTA. Lynx could simply never compare to MARTA especially on the current projections where it may be decades before it gets another light rail line. 

- Atlanta is the only major metro of Georgia

- Atlanta has multiple very dense, very tall skylines. SouthEnd, SouthPark, Ballantyne just … don’t compare to Buckhead or Midtown or the other nodes. I don’t think that matters, personally.

- Atlanta hosted the *Olympics*!!! Charlotte will *never* get the Olympics. Not in our lifetimes. It is the HQ of CNN… it has Coke…Could you imagine CNN, Fox or MSNBC being mostly out of CLT? 

Again. Other than being bigger & more dense of a layout… What’s the problem with becoming Atlanta? 

Charlotte is not a Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, etc. it won’t be a Boston, it won’t be a Philadelphia, it won’t be a Miami, it won’t be a Chicago, it won’t be a New York. 

The best case scenario is for Charlotte to be like Atlanta in terms of urbanity. But having competition with the Triangle (which we’ll find out this week if it’ll become a Metro of a good bit over 2 Million) & it’s globally recognized tech hub & globally recognized universities and the Triad being noteworthy, not being the largest ever likely of the South and not being a state capital… even becoming like Atlanta seems difficult. 

Buckhead has two MARTA lines on each side. SouthPark could never… 

Yes. Charlottes obvious pro over Atlanta is literally just being smaller. From there it’s just personal preference. Not to be a troll about Charlotte V. Atlanta but stop whining when people call Charlotte a low dense sprawl city while on the same hand saying them same thing about more dense, more urban Atlanta…

Edit: Unless it’s a like a legit reason but 95% of the time it’s small Ding Dong syndrome on here when it comes to Raleigh & Atlanta. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Again with not wanting to be like Atlanta… Obviously Charlotte becoming “like Atlanta” is a huge fear here that needs to be reiterated several times weekly so hopefully the below will relieve people’s fears:

- Atlanta is by far the largest & most important metro outside of Texas, FL & VA in the south. Something catastrophic would have to happen for Charlotte to get anywhere near Atlanta as a peer or a Houston/Dallas level of equals. 

- Atlanta is a state Capital of a fast growing state 

- Atlanta will likely always be the uncontested heavyweight of the south and always have dibs on stuff

- Atlanta has MARTA. Lynx could simply never compare to MARTA especially on the current projections where it may be decades before it gets another light rail line. 

- Atlanta is the only major metro of Georgia

- Atlanta has multiple very dense, very tall skylines. SouthEnd, SouthPark, Ballantyne just … don’t compare to Buckhead or Midtown or the other nodes. I don’t think that matters, personally.

- Atlanta hosted the *Olympics*!!! Charlotte will *never* get the Olympics. Not in our lifetimes. It is the HQ of CNN… it has Coke…Could you imagine CNN, Fox or MSNBC being mostly out of CLT? 

Again. Other than being bigger & more dense of a layout… What’s the problem with becoming Atlanta? 

Charlotte is not a Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, etc. it won’t be a Boston, it won’t be a Philadelphia, it won’t be a Miami, it won’t be a Chicago, it won’t be a New York. 

The best case scenario is for Charlotte to be like Atlanta in terms of urbanity. But having competition with the Triangle (which we’ll find out this week if it’ll become a Metro of a good bit over 2 Million) & it’s globally recognized tech hub & globally recognized universities and the Triad being noteworthy, not being the largest ever likely of the South and not being a state capital… even becoming like Atlanta seems difficult. 

Buckhead has two MARTA lines on each side. SouthPark could never… 

Yes. Charlottes obvious pro over Atlanta is literally just being smaller. From there it’s just personal preference. Not to be a troll about Charlotte V. Atlanta but stop whining when people call Charlotte a low dense sprawl city while on the same hand saying them same thing about more dense, more urban Atlanta…

Edit: Unless it’s a like a legit reason but 95% of the time it’s small Ding Dong syndrome on here when it comes to Raleigh & Atlanta. 

I always thought this comment (about Charlotte not being like Atlanta) was solely in regard to the sprawl, nothing more.

[15895]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

I always thought this comment (about Charlotte not being like Atlanta) was solely in regard to the sprawl, nothing more.

I mean. Sure.

I personally think it will be great if Charlotte could become less sprawling than present day Atlanta when/if Charlotte hits 6 Million people. Atlanta has a lot of advantages and Charlotte is already on the path of being more sprawling than Atlanta. 

Might as well look more at the good in Atlanta & Atlanta urbanism as that’s probably what Charlotte could resemble. At least every now & then. That or we need to find ways to halt the growth. 

[Professor]

9 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

I always thought this comment (about Charlotte not being like Atlanta) was solely in regard to the sprawl, nothing more.

It was. What is up with all the other data about Atlanta that is of no interest to most of us. Hell, even Buckhead disclaims Atlanta. I certainly don't want Atlanta as a model. Besides their metro area is 3 times larger tha Charlottes.  If Charlotte's was that large, we would also have a metro population almost as large. IMO the only "larger" cities that I envy are Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Boston, Miami, and Seattle (somewhat). Charlotte is safer, cleaner, more walkable (in my opinion), and has a much better traffic situation. 

[Durhamite]

4 hours ago, Larry Singer said:

It was. What is up with all the other data about Atlanta that is of no interest to most of us. Hell, even Buckhead disclaims Atlanta. I certainly don't want Atlanta as a model. Besides their metro area is 3 times larger tha Charlottes.  If Charlotte's was that large, we would also have a metro population almost as large. IMO the only "larger" cities that I envy are Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Boston, Miami, and Seattle (somewhat). Charlotte is safer, cleaner, more walkable (in my opinion), and has a much better traffic situation. 

I like Atlanta, no problem from my end.  Traffic hell in Dallas and Houston as well.

[Professor]

1 hour ago, Durhamite said:

I like Atlanta, no problem from my end.  Traffic hell in Dallas and Houston as well.

I don't dislike Atlanta. It isn't my favorite place. I used to use Buckhead as a weekend get away. I believe that Los Angeles, D.C> and Atlanta have the worse traffic issues in the U.S. I also hate how dangerous it is walking around the outide of the underground and so many other places in Atlanta, I hope Charlotte never gets that bad. Our downtown area is still fairly safe. Hopefully that won't change drastically.  I feel restricted to too many places in  Atlanta in regard to safety. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Larry Singer

[15895]

Then we shouldn’t be championing the growth Charlotte is undergoing…

It’s either stop growth (in its current form) or strive to be like Atlanta [in build. Charlotte will have its unique identities and neighborhoods and culture, etc.). I mean or better but Atlanta is something Charlotte should strive to be like in urban build if not more-so urban. It’s not growing in a more urban way as of now but. 

It just doesn’t seem compatible to get Lance in the Pants (yes - that is an intentional use of a Charlotte company) over Charlotte’s rapid growth etc. & bemoaning the idea of becoming like Atlanta.

Which is it? Growth or no growth? 

It’s not so much about liking or disliking Atlanta personally or “envying” Dallas or wherever. It’s simply how it’s built out. Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Portland are various sizes and distinct cultures but I think we could say they’re overall dense and have commonalities that some may hate one area and love another. But the build is overall dense. Atlanta, Dallas, Raleigh, Charlotte, Austin, Nashville, Houston, Phoenix are overall more sprawl, some strong downtowns (some more than others) but overall sprawl with commonalities in build. 

You don’t have to prefer Atlanta  as a place to recognize that its build is what Charlotte could resemble if the stars align, realistically. I can’t think of a metro or area more similar to Charlotte in its build out. Can anyone else?  If anything, y’all should be saying “I hope we stop growing like Atlanta” or “I hope we become less like Atlanta” rather than “I hope we don’t become like Atlanta” . & what Metro area over 6M people has pleasant traffic anyway?  
 

[Edit: Atlanta has the best Traffic for Metro’s over 5M I believe so…]

Edited June 27, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[kermit]

No one asked but for what its worth, the Atlanta metro area is roughly 100 miles from west end to east end (the north south extent looks similar). If Charlotte grew to the same size at the same density (no one wants this), then the Charlotte metro would reach to Asheville (nearly), all of the Triad, Fayetteville, Florence, Columbia and Greenville.

While metro definitions are a tricky thing, I am not sure that this variety of growth is at all feasible or desirable. Our population growth is going to be choked off quickly if we don't increase density.

Having said that, I think a strong case can be made for using thick rail transit to make the Triad and Charlotte part of the same CBSA (labor market more importantly)

Edited June 27, 2023 by kermit

[kayman]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:03 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

Again with not wanting to be like Atlanta… Obviously Charlotte becoming “like Atlanta” is a huge fear here that needs to be reiterated several times weekly so hopefully the below will relieve people’s fears:

- Atlanta is by far the largest & most important metro outside of Texas, FL & VA in the south. Something catastrophic would have to happen for Charlotte to get anywhere near Atlanta as a peer or a Houston/Dallas level of equals. 

- Atlanta is a state Capital of a fast growing state 

- Atlanta will likely always be the uncontested heavyweight of the south and always have dibs on stuff

- Atlanta has MARTA. Lynx could simply never compare to MARTA especially on the current projections where it may be decades before it gets another light rail line. 

- Atlanta is the only major metro of Georgia

- Atlanta has multiple very dense, very tall skylines. SouthEnd, SouthPark, Ballantyne just … don’t compare to Buckhead or Midtown or the other nodes. I don’t think that matters, personally.

- Atlanta hosted the *Olympics*!!! Charlotte will *never* get the Olympics. Not in our lifetimes. It is the HQ of CNN… it has Coke…Could you imagine CNN, Fox or MSNBC being mostly out of CLT? 

Again. Other than being bigger & more dense of a layout… What’s the problem with becoming Atlanta? 

Charlotte is not a Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, etc. it won’t be a Boston, it won’t be a Philadelphia, it won’t be a Miami, it won’t be a Chicago, it won’t be a New York. 

The best case scenario is for Charlotte to be like Atlanta in terms of urbanity. But having competition with the Triangle (which we’ll find out this week if it’ll become a Metro of a good bit over 2 Million) & it’s globally recognized tech hub & globally recognized universities and the Triad being noteworthy, not being the largest ever likely of the South and not being a state capital… even becoming like Atlanta seems difficult. 

Buckhead has two MARTA lines on each side. SouthPark could never… 

Yes. Charlottes obvious pro over Atlanta is literally just being smaller. From there it’s just personal preference. Not to be a troll about Charlotte V. Atlanta but stop whining when people call Charlotte a low dense sprawl city while on the same hand saying them same thing about more dense, more urban Atlanta…

Edit: Unless it’s a like a legit reason but 95% of the time it’s small Ding Dong syndrome on here when it comes to Raleigh & Atlanta. 

 

On 6/27/2023 at 5:07 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

Then we shouldn’t be championing the growth Charlotte is undergoing…

It’s either stop growth (in its current form) or strive to be like Atlanta [in build. Charlotte will have its unique identities and neighborhoods and culture, etc.). I mean or better but Atlanta is something Charlotte should strive to be like in urban build if not more-so urban. It’s not growing in a more urban way as of now but. 

It just doesn’t seem compatible to get Lance in the Pants (yes - that is an intentional use of a Charlotte company) over Charlotte’s rapid growth etc. & bemoaning the idea of becoming like Atlanta.

Which is it? Growth or no growth? 

It’s not so much about liking or disliking Atlanta personally or “envying” Dallas or wherever. It’s simply how it’s built out. Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Portland are various sizes and distinct cultures but I think we could say they’re overall dense and have commonalities that some may hate one area and love another. But the build is overall dense. Atlanta, Dallas, Raleigh, Charlotte, Austin, Nashville, Houston, Phoenix are overall more sprawl, some strong downtowns (some more than others) but overall sprawl with commonalities in build. 

You don’t have to prefer Atlanta  as a place to recognize that its build is what Charlotte could resemble if the stars align, realistically. I can’t think of a metro or area more similar to Charlotte in its build out. Can anyone else?  If anything, y’all should be saying “I hope we stop growing like Atlanta” or “I hope we become less like Atlanta” rather than “I hope we don’t become like Atlanta” . & what Metro area over 6M people has pleasant traffic anyway?  
 

[Edit: Atlanta has the best Traffic for Metro’s over 5M I believe so…]

Not to be contrarian, yes there are many things that Charlotte can look towards at Atlanta. However, let’s lay out the facts. Charlotte (within I-485) is more diverse and certainly well on its way to being way more densely developed than Atlanta within I-285.  I’ll have to disagree with you on the sentiments that Atlanta is what Charlotte is likely to look like. Atlanta as a principal city is going to be stuck in its municipal limits of today due it being politically landlocked. Whereas, Charlotte's aggressive annexation for over 6 decades guaranteed it will be more like Houston in the long run with a vast and expansive urban landscape within its city limits. The Charlotte UDO was a gamechanger here that will guarantee that its density will rival only a few other cities.  Meanwhile I know for a fact Atlanta is still another couple years away from even considering a 60-day moratorium to do minor changes to their 1982 Euclidean zoning ordinance. Yes, Atlanta is the capital of Georgia, but sprawl is also going to be a thing but that is across the entire Sunbelt major cities. For the record, Atlanta is not much more dense than Charlotte overall.

I don’t know about Atlanta being the uncontested heavyweight of the South; maybe the Deep South of Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Tennessee. Miami is as big as Atlanta and serves that role for Florida, and Dallas and Houston serves that for Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana. Atlanta was that until the 2010s, but Charlotte has made sure that it is that spot for the nearly 17 million people that live in North and South Carolina, which is much bigger than most places outside Texas or Florida. I’ll also have to disagree that Charlotte is likely 3 million+ and at the rate it is going it will be 4.5 million+ even before 2040. The Summer Olympics has only been hosted in Los Angeles and Atlanta domestically so that's kind of a non sequitur.

As someone who spent a good bit of time in DFW and Houston, Charlotte will be more like Houston than Atlanta. The irony is that Atlanta, Houston, and Charlotte all have large and rapidly growing black middle, upper middle, and entrepreneurial demographics. The regional business recruitment and powerbrokers of all three all want more of the aforementioned demographic groups to continue to migrate to all three.

Fact, MARTA is a key major infrastructure point for Atlanta. However, LYNX is handcuffed now as a de facto city department of Charlotte municipal government. So until LYNX is as an independent public transit authority then it is not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, as someone who moved here from elsewhere, there is not much of a competition between Charlotte and Raleigh. Those two different urban landscapes monocentric versus a polycentric region.

I've said we can learn from Atlanta in this posts about 10 days ago:

Atlanta and Georgia installed those most of those changes in an era where only 1 or 2 counties were led by progressive thinking and big city minded leadership.

However those are political strategies and structured changes that must occur because we're headed towards balkanization and governance stalemate if these things don't occur.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by kayman

[Hushpuppy321]

21 hours ago, kayman said:

“Whereas, Charlotte aggressive annexation for over 6 decades guaranteed it will be more like Houston in the long run with a vast and expansive urban landscape within city limits. The Charlotte UDO was a gamechanger here that will guarantee that its density will rival only a few other cities.  Meanwhile I know for a fact Atlanta is still another couple years away from even considering a 60-day moratorium to fix their 1982 Euclidean zoning ordinance.“

 

Curious - How much will the new UDO & TOD Zoning actually increase Density in Charlotte?  Is there any other similar UDO language in other large NC Cities (Cary had UDO Rewritten/updated in early 2000’s) or was this a first/most aggressive growth focused UDO in the State?  Also - what about Greensboro since Taiwo is now City Manager there?

Will take this question to the UDO page.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Hushpuppy321
Found UDO Thread

[kermit]

19 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

 

Curious - How much will the new UDO & TOD Zoning actually increase Density in Charlotte?  Is there any other similar UDO language in other large NC Cities (Cary had UDO Rewritten/updated in early 2000’s) or was this a first/most aggressive growth focused UDO in the State?  Also - what about Greensboro since Taiwo is now City Manager there?

Will take this question to the UDO page.

There were very similar zoning changes in Minneapolis 3(?) years ago, the impact has been underwhelming (but they are not growing as fast as we are). AFAIK there has been nothing similar in NC (Raleigh made some changes but mostly just in specific neighborhoods, my sporadic observations are that some infill has happened in Raleigh).

I work with real estate professionals (not all in residential)  in Charlotte frequently, I have been consistently SHOCKED by how little any of them knew about, let alone understood, the changes brought by the UDO. That produced crazy market inefficiencies (and I still don’t feel like UDO changes have been priced into local RE).

Edited July 1, 2023 by kermit

[DownEast]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:58 PM, kayman said:

The Summer Olympics has only been hosted in Los Angeles and Atlanta domestically

Don't forget 1904 in St. Louis.