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      WARNING!   07/26/16

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kermit

Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

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jednc    376
  18 hours ago, kermit said:

quick reminder: its now legal to run over nazis and white supremacist protestors in North Carolina if they are in the road.

-----------------------------------------------------------

If they had my car surrounded in the street and we're threatening me and my property my foot would know no skin color as it pressed the gas. When it comes down to me or them, it's them every time no matter who they are.

Edited by jednc

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kermit    1954
1 hour ago, jednc said:

If they had my car surrounded in the street and we're threatening me and my property my foot would know no skin color as it pressed the gas. When it comes down to me or them, it's them every time no matter who they are.

Your right of self defense was never in question -- so the 'them or me' question is not relevant to the legislation. HB 330 was written to allow you to run protestors over just for being in the roadway (e.g. you could run over a protestor if they were simply making you late).

FWIW the bill in question was passed by the house last year but it was not taken up by the senate so it is not law in NC currently (so my original, and since deleted, post was inaccurate).

Edited by kermit
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Dale    593
19 hours ago, kermit said:

^ there are more than 17 supremacists on the White House staff.

What are you smoking ? Trump already fired the one guy that identity liberals and the media wanted to be a white supremacist.

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kermit    1954
1 minute ago, Dale said:

What are you smoking ? Trump already fired the one guy that identity liberals and the media wanted to be a white supremacist.

well there is this dude: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/white-nationalists-on-bannon/

and then this guy:  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/sebastian-gorka-white-house-vetting-fail/519843/

I would need to put down my bong to find links to more

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JBS    394

Trump is disgraceful.  He is supported by white supremacists and has clearly attempted to maintain that support by not unequivocally denouncing them.  He is easily the worst President in history.  I repudiate him, the racists and nazis.  I have never voted for a Democrat in my life but excluding an unlikely canidacy from Ben Sasse (who should himself leave the party), I'm forever done with Republicans also.

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Dale    593
Dale    593
1 hour ago, JBS said:

Trump is disgraceful.  He is supported by white supremacists and has clearly attempted to maintain that support by not unequivocally denouncing them.  He is easily the worst President in history.  I repudiate him, the racists and nazis.  I have never voted for a Democrat in my life but excluding an unlikely canidacy from Ben Sasse (who should himself leave the party), I'm forever done with Republicans also.

Wait, don't tell me, because of your disgust with identity politics and socialist democratic ideals ... you're ready to embrace the Democrats ?

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kermit    1954

Dale    593

I'm just saying your leading source for the notion of Trump infiltrated by Nazis is the journalistic equivalent of Stormfront.

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kermit    1954
1 hour ago, Dale said:

I'm just saying your leading source for the notion of Trump infiltrated by Nazis is the journalistic equivalent of Stormfront.

Well the Atlantic has been publishing since 1857 and cnn is arguably the most scrutinized news organization in the world at the moment so I think its a bit hyperbolic to equate them to the propaganda arm of the white nationalists. Maybe that is just me.

FWIW the links you provided did nothing to defend or deny the assertion of the Vitézi Rend that Gorka was a member of the organization (if he admitted to being a member the state department would have prevented him from entering the US). Your sources merely said that he had done some solid work in the past, suggesting that nothing else mattered. Both my grandfathers fought in Europe in WWII so this glossing over of Gorks'a past is not good enough for me. The least I can do for them is to be skeptical of people, who based on recent actions, may be supporting the reemergence of nazis within our borders. 

TLDR: I disagree with your perspective.

Edited by kermit
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jednc    376
21 hours ago, kermit said:

Your right of self defense was never in question -- so the 'them or me' question is not relevant to the legislation. HB 330 was written to allow you to run protestors over just for being in the roadway (e.g. you could run over a protestor if they were simply making you late).

FWIW the bill in question was passed by the house last year but it was not taken up by the senate so it is not law in NC currently (so my original, and since deleted, post was inaccurate).

Just in case my position isn't clear, I would never advocate wrecklessly driving into a crowd to do harm to anyone. The timing of my post coinciding with what happened in Charlottesville made me want to clarify this!

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cjd5050    354
18 hours ago, kermit said:

Well the Atlantic has been publishing since 1857 and cnn is arguably the most scrutinized news organization in the world at the moment so I think its a bit hyperbolic to equate them to the propaganda arm of the white nationalists. Maybe that is just me.

4

I would not consider CNN to be equal to Stormfront but would absolutely consider CNN to be a propaganda arm and not a credible news source.   I can prove this with a single link:

http://www.cnn.com/search/?q=Antifa

There is an 'Alt-Right' in the US but there is also an 'Alt-Left' in the US.  Both groups are bad and we all would be better off if they did not exist.  The problem, as I see it, is that the way the 'media' is covering things is only throwing gas on the fire.  

Take a look at this post - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/11/us/charlottesville-white-nationalists-rally-why/index.html

Every single person at that event is painted as a white nationalist.  While I have no doubt many there are bad people, I don't think everyone there is.  This quote from the mayor:

Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer called this event a "cowardly parade of hatred, bigotry, racism, and intolerance march down the lawns of the architect of our Bill of Rights."  The emphasis on the word cowardly is mine.  The reason is these people all were out in the open.  Faces uncovered for the world to see.  You may not agree with them.  You may hate them or hate what they think or feel but I don't think you can call someone a coward showing their face.

On the other hand you have Antifa.  Or as the media like CNN likes to call them 'counterprotestors' or 'counterprotestors in black' who are there to counter protest the 'largest hate gathering in the US.   But do you notice the difference?  Who is covering their face and why are they doing it?  

The reason is Antifa has just as much hate as anything on the 'Right' and they are just as violent as anything on the right.  But they are not called out as such.  Hell, CNN won't even mention them by name.  Why is that?  

Since you mentioned The Atlantic, they actually have a great long form piece on Antifa in the upcoming Sept issue but it's already online - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

Antifa is the violent left.  Antifa is the hateful left.  Antifa is accepted by the mainstream left because many enjoy what they do...which is violence against the right or alt-right.  

The only thing I see that's really cowardly in all of this is not having the courage to say that there is some bad and violent people on both the left and the right of the political spectrum and they are tearing the country apart.  

 
 

 

170515110556-charlottesville-lee-monument-spencer-protests-0513-exlarge-169.jpg

DHDRJkFUwAAVzIZ.jpg

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nonillogical    388

Wow the attempts at painting a false equivalency are becoming truly desperate. Of COURSE there are bad folks on the extremes of the left and right, but to pretend that they are morally, legally, and numerically equivalent in recent events and especially this weekend is to really defend the obvious aggressors; in this case, card-carrying actual Nazis and white supremacists. I'm not calling them the Alt-Right anymore and that re-branding attempt of theirs is rightfully falling apart now. I don't recall seeing a whole lot of "but what about..." statements to soften the condemnation of the last ISIS-sponsored terrorist to drive a car into a crowd of people, but I wonder about the motives of anyone feeling the need to do so for this terrorist and weekend of intimidation and beatings.

Edited by nonillogical
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cjd5050    354
8 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

Wow the attempts at painting a false equivalency are becoming truly desperate. Of COURSE there are bad folks on the extremes of the left and right, but to pretend that they are morally, legally, and numerically equivalent in recent events and especially this weekend is to really defend the obvious aggressors; in this case, card-carrying actual Nazis and white supremacists. I'm not calling them the Alt-Right anymore and that re-branding attempt of theirs is rightfully falling apart now. I don't recall seeing a whole lot of "but what about..." statements to soften the condemnation of the last ISIS-sponsored terrorist to drive a car into a crowd of people, but I wonder about the motives of anyone feeling the need to do so for this terrorist and weekend of intimidation and beatings.

Thanks for with the help in illustrating my point.  'preciate it

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nonillogical    388
14 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Thanks for with the help in illustrating my point.  'preciate it

Because I'm just as hateful as the nazis for taking the apparently controversial stance of "the nazis are in the wrong here"? Is that what you took from that? Ok. 

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cjd5050    354
27 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

Because I'm just as hateful as the nazis for taking the apparently controversial stance of "the nazis are in the wrong here"? Is that what you took from that? Ok. 

No.  Didn't say you were as hateful but you do fit the 'I'm gonna look the other way' group pretty well it appears.  

You seem to be completely oblivious or indifferent to the entirety of the issue.  So I am not sure if the keystrokes are even worthwhile.  

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kermit    1954
2 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

There is an 'Alt-Right' in the US but there is also an 'Alt-Left' in the US.  Both groups are bad and we all would be better off if they did not exist.  The problem, as I see it, is that the way the 'media' is covering things is only throwing gas on the fire.  

[...]

The only thing I see that's really cowardly in all of this is not having the courage to say that there is some bad and violent people on both the left and the right of the political spectrum and they are tearing the country apart.

I am not seeing any equivalence at all:

The radical right kills around 300 Americans per year in domestic terrorist attacks (one yesterday in Charlottesville). The death toll from the radical left is....?

IMO maintaining a defensive posture against a group which espouses hate based on race and ethnicity (while displaying the iconography of genocide) is completely justified in the current political climate.

Edited by kermit
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Dale    593

What happened in Charlottesville is lamentable. Larger view: identity liberals are shocked and outraged that a few angry white males are demanding a place at the table.

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Durhamite    34
31 minutes ago, Dale said:

What happened in Charlottesville is lamentable. Larger view: identity liberals are shocked and outraged that a few angry white males are demanding a place at the table.

Please enlighten me on when white males lost a "place" at any table in America.  This is the problem with many white males and these radical nationalist/klan/terriost, any sense of "losing" ground that's bequeathed via birth privilege scares the hell out of 'em.  

Maybe all those angry white males should take a knee during a game in protest....problem is they're entirely patriotic to a different flag.

 

Edited by Durhamite

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kermit    1954
30 minutes ago, Dale said:

What happened in Charlottesville is lamentable. Larger view: identity liberals are shocked and outraged that a few angry white males are demanding a place at the table.

No, Americans are angry because the right is violent, they lie and they are recently in the habit of suggesting genocide is appropriate. 

Not to mention only assholes ask for a seats at a table that they have always been sitting at.

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cjd5050    354
14 minutes ago, kermit said:

I am not seeing any equivalence at all:

The radical right kills around 300 Americans per year in domestic terrorist attacks (one yesterday in Charlottesville). The death toll from the radical left is....?

IMO a posture of self-defense from the left is completely justified in the current political climate.

Interesting study if you want to read it - https://info.publicintelligence.net/CTC-ViolentFarRight.pdf  Many sources couldn't even bother to link to it....  Maybe because it's from 2012?  

As for how many deaths the radical left is responsible for I guess I would need a better understanding of how you are measuring things to form an answer.  

For example, do you consider a police officer being killed in an ambush domestic terrorism from the radical left?  Just where do you assign the 49 dead in Orlando?  What about the 15,000+ other murders in the US?   Do you consider gangs domestic terrorists?  

I am asking these questions not to deflect but to better understand your position.  

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AirNostrumMAD    902
42 minutes ago, Dale said:

What happened in Charlottesville is lamentable. Larger view: identity liberals are shocked and outraged that a few angry white males are demanding a place at the table.

Nazi's and the KKK  have no place at the table.

 

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cjd5050    354
24 minutes ago, kermit said:

No, Americans are angry because the right is violent, they lie and they are recently in the habit of suggesting genocide is appropriate. 

Not to mention only assholes ask for a seats at a table that they have always been sitting at.

I can't find where but a couple of months ago someone foolishly asked just what was wrong with SJW.  The answer to that is Evergreen State College.  

It's one thing to demand a seat at the table.  It's another to demand the table and room be cleared of everyone but those of a preferred sex and color.  

Since we're talking about body parts, I think many would rather be called an asshole in trying to stand up for themselves than being a p*ssy and not having the backbone to withstand the crushing pressure of guilt.  To each their own.  

Try to do some mental gymnastics around this liberal jew and progressive college professor talking about blacks being racist and see if you can find a way to blame the right.  I'm sure you'll find a way....

 

 

16 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Nazi's and the KKK  have no place at the table.

 

What about a progressive liberal college professor?  

Edited by cjd5050
Some body parts matter more than others I guess.

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Dale    593
37 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

Please enlighten me on when white males lost a "place" at any table in America.  This is the problem with many white males and these radical nationalist/klan/terriost, any sense of "losing" ground that's bequeathed via birth privilege scares the hell out of 'em.  

Maybe all those angry white males should take a knee during a game in protest....problem is they're entirely patriotic to a different flag.

 

Well, you just answered your own question. "Privilege" dictates whining rights and, by definition, they don't have any.

23 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Nazi's and the KKK  have no place at the table.

 

Why not ? There equally despicable (and likely more violent) groups that have official whining rights.

19 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I can't find where but a couple of months ago someone foolishly asked just what was wrong with SJW.  The answer to that is Evergreen State College.  

It's one thing to demand a seat at the table.  It's another to demand the table and room be cleared of everyone but those of a preferred sex and color.  

Since we're talking about body parts, I think many would rather be called an asshole in trying to stand up for themselves than being a and not having the backbone to withstand the crushing pressure of guilt.  To each their own.  

Try to do some mental gymnastics around this liberal jew and progressive college professor talking about blacks being racist and see if you can find a way to blame the right.  I'm sure you'll find a way....

 

 

What about a progressive liberal college professor?  

In cases like these, whiteness negates liberalism.

In other words, if you have a gripe, don't be a white male. Because privilege.

Edited by Dale

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AirNostrumMAD    902

Why do we need to point out all of the terrorist organizations  to simply say the KKK and Nazi ideologies have no place in American society?

 

A terrorist drove a vehicle into a crowd of people. And you refuse to denounce it because the people who got hit by this vehicle were democrats who are oppressing the white man?  You're absolutely right. This action isn't much different from other hate groups like ISIS fighters driving vehicles into crowds because they feel oppressed by Western society. It's all around deplorable. 

And people should be ashamed of themselves for refusing to denounce the actions of White supremacist at a Unite the Nazi/KKK rally because DEMOCRATS DO IT TOO! 

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
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