Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[SgtCampsalot]

9 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

Trump supporters that I know, and that is a lot of people, have nothing in common with Bernie Sanders. He is joke and should be living in a socialist country in eastern Europe or somewhere else.  The fact that Sanders or Clinton were in the race blows my mind.  As long as everyone in this country has an opportunity to become wealthy, I support those with wealth.  They can stick the "equal distribution of wealth" and "free education and medical" up their you know what.  There is no such thing as "free." It might be free for the leaches but not for the taxpayers. Just my humble opinion. 

 

But would you agree the system is set up to benefit some while it's hurting others, thus meriting DJT draining the swamp and shaking things up?

[caterpillar2]

22 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

But would you agree the system is set up to benefit some while it's hurting others, thus meriting DJT draining the swamp and shaking things up?

 Can you be specific?   The system is set up to benefit many including those that give nothing.  Trump needs to drain the swamp and thank god he is doing it.  So nice not to see  Reed, Rice, Clinton, Lynch and the other despicables.  Trump has done more in seven months despite Democrats and Republican douches fighting for his failure than Obama did in his miserable 8  years. 

[15895]

1 hour ago, caterpillar2 said:

 Can you be specific?   The system is set up to benefit many including those that give nothing.  Trump needs to drain the swamp and thank god he is doing it.  So nice not to see  Reed, Rice, Clinton, Lynch and the other despicables.  Trump has done more in seven months despite Democrats and Republican douches fighting for his failure than Obama did in his miserable 8  years. 

 

You should refocus your passion from federal where there is a lot of debate over nothing to local where there are yuge impacts to school, taxes, regulations, religion, etc etc. 

 

 

[nonillogical]

These comments, much like Trump's actual presidency, seem designed to layer in so many untruths, so many controversial statements, that it seems exhausting if not impossible to parse and refute them all. 

So, I will focus only on what is going on today. Trump just gave a bizarre, nearly incoherent, stream-of-consciousness speech in Puerto Rico, alternately back-patting himself for presiding over such a large storm (and knowing what a category 5 is, "not many people have heard of a category 5"), downplaying the seriousness of the humanitarian situation compared to Katrina (which was a "real" crisis, he says), congratulating Puerto Ricans on the incomplete, premature death toll numbers, continuing to take stabs at PR for their financial situation (nevermind that Trump himself added to that debt by running a golf course into the ground there), and continued to engage in petty, pathetic power plays with the mayor of San Juan. It's not hard to guess why PR gets this kind of disingenuous treatment compared to the still underwhelming but comparatively ok response Texas and Florida received. Just one, near daily example of an abject failure of leadership, compassion, and decency. 

 

[SgtCampsalot]

1 hour ago, caterpillar2 said:

 Can you be specific?   The system is set up to benefit many including those that give nothing.  Trump needs to drain the swamp and thank god he is doing it.  So nice not to see  Reed, Rice, Clinton, Lynch and the other despicables.  Trump has done more in seven months despite Democrats and Republican douches fighting for his failure than Obama did in his miserable 8  years. 

I was trying not to be specific, because I'm trying to illustrate the common ground amongst Americans whom the media/Washington has convinced are polar opposites.

Most Trump voters I know say they might have voted for Sanders if he had been on the ticket (emphasis on might). But then, I'm a young city dwelling lefty.

One common ground is that most people do not like the Clintons. For Lefties they represent a dinosaur age that approaches things coldly and clinically. Young lefties and many righties I know want Elite classes to stop holding the leash. That's some common ground. 

^^AIRNOSTRUMMAD is right, too. I think one lesson from these 4 years for all sides is to re-focus on local, where our efforts actually can show visible results.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[allthingsplanes]

39 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

I was trying not to be specific, because I'm trying to illustrate the common ground amongst Americans whom the media/Washington has convinced are polar opposites.

Most Trump voters I know say they might have voted for Sanders if he had been on the ticket (emphasis on might). But then, I'm a young city dwelling lefty.

One common ground is that most people do not like the Clintons. For Lefties they represent a dinosaur age that approaches things coldly and clinically. Young lefties and many righties I know want Elite classes to stop holding the leash. That's some common ground. 

^^AIRNOSTRUMMAD is right, too. I think one lesson from these 4 years for all sides is to re-focus on local, where our efforts actually can show visible results.

You're barking up the wrong tree.  You're trying to have a rational discussion with someone who is solely throwing out irrational lines fed to them via right wing outlets.  Those types of Trump supporters had a reflexive reaction to someone they thought was everything they wanted and nothing that they see or hear will change their feelings.

[SgtCampsalot]

25 minutes ago, allthingsplanes said:

You're barking up the wrong tree.  You're trying to have a rational discussion with someone who is solely throwing out irrational lines fed to them via right wing outlets.  Those types of Trump supporters had a reflexive reaction to someone they thought was everything they wanted and nothing that they see or hear will change their feelings.

Reminds me of this quote from "The Anti-Semite and the Jew" by Jean Paul Sartre. Pretty accurate for right now:
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

[caterpillar2]

1 hour ago, allthingsplanes said:

You're barking up the wrong tree.  You're trying to have a rational discussion with someone who is solely throwing out irrational lines fed to them via right wing outlets.  Those types of Trump supporters had a reflexive reaction to someone they thought was everything they wanted and nothing that they see or hear will change their feelings.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by caterpillar2
What is the use. I feel my way and they feel theirs.

[caterpillar2]

29 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

But you know what? I am on the winning side and I am seeing a president that is actually working and accomplishing.  

 

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Reminds me of this quote from "The Anti-Semite and the Jew" by Jean Paul Sartre. Pretty accurate for right now:
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by caterpillar2
People should be able to have their views. Not on this board.

[kermit]

34 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

But you know what? I am on the winning side

are you sure about that?

[deleted]

24 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

I hope they bring back the draft. I would like to see little liberal boys kicked around by drill instructors. That will be a hoot. 

Then we can get in more senseless wars where we can kill more of America's youth, kill and maim innocent civilians, waste billions and have nothing to show for it but a destroyed country (and America's reputation further diminished) when we pull out.  Seriously, if you haven't watched the Vietnam War series on PBS you should.  LBJ and Nixon cared only about their egos, reputations and political prospects.  Not one damn good thing was accomplished.  I support soldiers but not the politicians who regularly and needlessly put their lives at risk.  I assume (and hope) you were not serious.

[SgtCampsalot]

A draft would make the US/Canadian border look like the Mexican/US border... porous!

[DMann]

Kermit, please do not confuse things with facts!

[eastsider]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

A draft would make the US/Canadian border look like the Mexican/US border... porous!

No there will be a rush to doctors selling notes stating that people have bone-spurs in their foot.

[15895]

Wanting to see a draft started so little liberal boys are kicked around by instructors?

 

Sounds like something in that one phase some gay guys go through when they're all homophobic, preachy and let's everyone know they're a god fearing Christian lady.

[caterpillar2]

17 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

A draft would make the US/Canadian border look like the Mexican/US border... porous!

That sound great.

14 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Wanting to see a draft started so little liberal boys are kicked around by instructors?

 

Sounds like something in that one phase some gay guys go through when they're all homophobic, preachy and let's everyone know they're a god fearing Christian lady.

Sorry dude, that is a really lame analogy.  Not sure your sentence makes any sense. Maybe some commas would help?

[Durhamite]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:04 AM, caterpillar2 said:

That sound great.

Sorry dude, that is a really lame analogy.  Not sure your sentence makes any sense. Maybe some commas would help?

I will pray that your current situational awareness isn't learned through a traumatic situation, which is generally what happens to most people who's convictions are so politically motivated and blindly one-sided.  I think Trump could be a decent president but he doesn't wanna be.  His entire livelihood is based on being a vulture, survival of the fittest and win at all cost.  Meaning he will double-talk and espouse anything to gain visibility which is how he became a celebrity.  He doesn't possess the business acumen of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet but keen enough to exploit the economic and tax system using lax real estate rules to transform inherited spoiled brat wealth into super wealth.  He total destroyed the USFL in one big swoop due primarily to arrogance and greed.  He's never governed anything, served in the military in any public administrative capacity.   

Trump has a fragile ego and accustomed to being surrounded by "yes" men as to why he's having such a difficult time passing legislation.....he didn't realize the forefathers purposely crafted the system to disallow such tyranny. Obama too had to learn executive office limitations although he at least served as a Senator so he had some familiarity with how DC works. 

The notion of "drain the swamp" is laughable.  Every powerful person he fires or runs off will only be replaced with more swamp monsters or more powerful people.  This will always be the case in DC because believe it or not, DC works pretty well given every nook and cranny, rich/poor,  etc people that the system serves.  DC is filled with really smart people who are dedicated to addressing government inefficiencies and problems.  And like any business you have the do-nothings...that'll never change.  You can't change DC like so many people desire because it doesn't need it and for the most part works well.

Obama left Trump a solid economy and the usual turmoil in the world that any president has to deal with.  He complained about Obama's vacationing and golfing, yet he's surpassed what Obama in this area.  He spent years on a branding crusade to "out" Obama as a Kenyan.....purposely done for notoriety and to serve red meat to a base of people who really  believed it and many still do.  

He's an old rich dude, an entertainer and a good people person who simply wants to address complex problems in tweets, soundbites and platitudes.

I am liberal, served in the military 11Bravo and will always respect the office of the Presidency.  He makes it difficult with the celebrity slant, branding  and double-talk.  Change can be good especially when people believe things could be better. However it's like the fans yearning for the backup QB to get in the game who throws 2 quick interceptions.   He hasn't accomplished anything, no major legislation, no Obamacare repeal,  no tax reform, no infrastructure bill, etc.....he has the house and senate...nothing.  Good thing Obama left him an economy on cruise control but best believe storms are ahead and auto-pilot will need to be turned off...the sht is coming, always has and always will.  Rest assured he isn't in the business of owning up to bad decisions and will unleash a tweet tirade like none other to cast blame on somebody.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Durhamite

[caterpillar2]

1 hour ago, Durhamite said:

I will pray that your current situational awareness isn't learned through a traumatic situation, which is generally what happens to most people who's convictions are so politically motivated and blindly one-sided.  I think Trump could be a decent president but he doesn't wanna be.  His entire livelihood is based on being a vulture, survival of the fittest and win at all cost.  Meaning he will double-talk and espouse anything to gain visibility which is how he became a celebrity.  He doesn't possess the business acumen of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet but keen enough to exploit the economic and tax system using lax real estate rules to transform inherited spoiled brat wealth into super wealth.  He total destroyed the USFL in one big swoop due primarily to arrogance and greed.  He's never governed anything, served in the military in any public administrative capacity.   

Trump has a fragile ego and accustomed to being surrounded by "yes" men as to why he's having such a difficult time passing legislation.....he didn't realize the forefathers purposely crafted the system to disallow such tyranny. Obama too had to learn executive office limitations although he at least served as a Senator so he had some familiarity with how DC works. 

The notion of "drain the swamp" is laughable.  Every powerful person he fires or runs off will only be replaced with more swamp monsters or more powerful people.  This will always be the case in DC because believe it or not, DC works pretty well given every nook and cranny, rich/poor,  etc people that the system serves.  DC is filled with really smart people who are dedicated to addressing government inefficiencies and problems.  And like any business you have the do-nothings...that'll never change.  You can't change DC like so many people desire because it doesn't need it and for the most part works well.

Obama left Trump a solid economy and the usual turmoil in the world that any president has to deal with.  He complained about Obama's vacationing and golfing, yet he's surpassed what Obama in this area.  He spent years on a branding crusade to "out" Obama as a Kenyan.....purposely done for notoriety and to serve red meat to a base of people who really  believed it and many still do.  

He's an old rich dude, an entertainer and a good people person who simply wants to address complex problems in tweets, soundbites and platitudes.

I am liberal, served in the military 11Bravo and will always respect the office of the Presidency.  He makes it difficult with the celebrity slant, branding  and double-talk.  Change can be good especially when people believe things could be better. However it's like the fans yearning for the backup QB to get in the game who throws 2 quick interceptions.   He hasn't accomplished anything, no major legislation, no Obamacare repeal,  no tax reform, no infrastructure bill, etc.....he has the house and senate...nothing.  Good thing Obama left him an economy on cruise control but best believe storms are ahead and auto-pilot will need to be turned off...the sht is coming, always has and always will.  Rest assured he isn't in the business of owning up to bad decisions and will unleash a tweet tirade like none other to cast blame on somebody.

Superficially, you are right on some issues. His main is to focus on keeping America safe by protecting our borders, keeping our military strong, enforcing strict immigration laws, continuing  focusing on the economy, and cracking down on repeat crime along with getting rid of illegals that are criminals.  Like it or not, he is doing outstanding despite the vicious attempt to destroy him, and he has only been in office for 10 months. Screw the press and those that are dedicated destroying him.  They are the problem.   The left is concerned with the shoes that his wife wears. I never thought the U.S. would stoop to such a low level. I guess the U.S. wants a like Sanders  or Crooked Hillary running the country.  He tweets to his public directly so that the public can get the real scoop that  the liberal press is dedicated to  distorting .  I never knew a liberal that was a dedicated soldier or even served.  That contradicts liberalism. 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by caterpillar2

[allthingsplanes]

2 hours ago, Durhamite said:

I will pray that your current situational awareness isn't learned through a traumatic situation, which is generally what happens to most people who's convictions are so politically motivated and blindly one-sided.  I think Trump could be a decent president but he doesn't wanna be.  His entire livelihood is based on being a vulture, survival of the fittest and win at all cost.  Meaning he will double-talk and espouse anything to gain visibility which is how he became a celebrity.  He doesn't possess the business acumen of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet but keen enough to exploit the economic and tax system using lax real estate rules to transform inherited spoiled brat wealth into super wealth.  He total destroyed the USFL in one big swoop due primarily to arrogance and greed.  He's never governed anything, served in the military in any public administrative capacity.   

Trump has a fragile ego and accustomed to being surrounded by "yes" men as to why he's having such a difficult time passing legislation.....he didn't realize the forefathers purposely crafted the system to disallow such tyranny. Obama too had to learn executive office limitations although he at least served as a Senator so he had some familiarity with how DC works. 

The notion of "drain the swamp" is laughable.  Every powerful person he fires or runs off will only be replaced with more swamp monsters or more powerful people.  This will always be the case in DC because believe it or not, DC works pretty well given every nook and cranny, rich/poor,  etc people that the system serves.  DC is filled with really smart people who are dedicated to addressing government inefficiencies and problems.  And like any business you have the do-nothings...that'll never change.  You can't change DC like so many people desire because it doesn't need it and for the most part works well.

Obama left Trump a solid economy and the usual turmoil in the world that any president has to deal with.  He complained about Obama's vacationing and golfing, yet he's surpassed what Obama in this area.  He spent years on a branding crusade to "out" Obama as a Kenyan.....purposely done for notoriety and to serve red meat to a base of people who really  believed it and many still do.  

He's an old rich dude, an entertainer and a good people person who simply wants to address complex problems in tweets, soundbites and platitudes.

I am liberal, served in the military 11Bravo and will always respect the office of the Presidency.  He makes it difficult with the celebrity slant, branding  and double-talk.  Change can be good especially when people believe things could be better. However it's like the fans yearning for the backup QB to get in the game who throws 2 quick interceptions.   He hasn't accomplished anything, no major legislation, no Obamacare repeal,  no tax reform, no infrastructure bill, etc.....he has the house and senate...nothing.  Good thing Obama left him an economy on cruise control but best believe storms are ahead and auto-pilot will need to be turned off...the sht is coming, always has and always will.  Rest assured he isn't in the business of owning up to bad decisions and will unleash a tweet tirade like none other to cast blame on somebody.

 

 

 

Honestly this is one of the best summaries of both Trump and the state of things that I've ever read.  I wish we (liberals) could always make this good of a defense of government and "washington".

[caterpillar2]

I quit. Why argue? I'm on the winning side. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by caterpillar2
No use talking to robots

[SgtCampsalot]

25 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

I quit. Why argue? I'm on the winning side. 

I guess as long as everyone feels good.

Because while DJT won an election, this is all on the losing side of history.

So, everyone's a winner, at least at some point. Let's all go buy participation trophies 

Edited October 5, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[kermit]

48 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

 I'm on the winning side.

If by winning side you mean:

• The guy who received 2.9 million fewer votes than his opponent
• The guy who needed Vladimir Putin's help (likely in a conspiratorial effort) to squeak out a narrow electoral college victory
• The guy who has the lowest net approval ratings of any president since we began to keep track of such things

But yea, by all means,  go ahead and gloat.

Edited October 5, 2017 by kermit

[15895]

7 minutes ago, kermit said:

If by winning side you mean:

• The guy who received 2.9 million fewer votes than his opponent
• The guy who needed Vladimir Putin's help (likely in a conspiratorial effort) to squeak out a narrow electoral college victory
• The guy who has the lowest net approval ratings of any president since we began to keep track of such things

But yea, by all means,  go ahead and gloat.

 

Their pompous supporters make it that much sweeter at the thought of trump losing in 2020

[SgtCampsalot]

If Bernie Sanders won the election, I'd feel great about it, but I'd be hesitant to scream it from the hilltops because how the heck do I know how this will pan out over the next ten years?

[caterpillar2]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

If by winning side you mean:

• The guy who received 2.9 million fewer votes than his opponent
• The guy who needed Vladimir Putin's help (likely in a conspiratorial effort) to squeak out a narrow electoral college victory
• The guy who has the lowest net approval ratings of any president since we began to keep track of such things

But yea, by all means,  go ahead and gloat.

Yes him except for the Putin crap. That is just bitter anger at being on the loser's side. 

51 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

If Bernie Sanders won the election, I'd feel great about it, but I'd be hesitant to scream it from the hilltops because how the heck do I know how this will pan out over the next ten years?

 

51 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

If Bernie Sanders won the election, I'd feel great about it, but I'd be hesitant to scream it from the hilltops because how the heck do I know how this will pan out over the next ten years?

A real man's man and a socialist maniac. Just what we need. Just kidding about the man's man thing. I don't think a man would support him.