Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[kermit]

8 minutes ago, Dale said:

"Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission was a 2015 United States Supreme Court case wherein the Court upheld the right of Arizona voters to remove the authority to draw election districts from the Arizona State Legislature and vest it in an independent redistricting commission.^{[1]"  does nothing to overturn my contention "It's only gerrymandering when you lose." Therefore, your rejoinder is false.}

Your statement is false:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_v._Carr

 

[Dale]

2 minutes ago, kermit said:

Your statement is false:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_v._Carr

 

Another lawsuit by a loser in the rough-and-tumble that is politics proves your rejoinders a fusillade of futilities.

[CLT704]

According to NC SBE, turnout for the mayor's race was up from 14.76% in 2015 to 21% this year. 

[kermit]

8 hours ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

It's amazing how the ACC and NCAA moved games out of NC because of HB2...But the NCAA and ACC will allow games to be played in China...where the people have NO RIGHTS. Just like Kermit the frog...but that's not of my business...I will sip my tea. Double standards in this country are out of control.

 

Taking your post literally I can say that I agree with you. The ACC and NCAA did the right thing when they moved games out of NC because of HB2. And I agree that its a shame that they played a basketball game in China -- the next time I smoke a bowl with John Swafford I'll bring this up. 

Doing the right thing in one context  doesn't obligate an organization to do the right thing in every other context -- every married person knows that you gotta pick your battles. 

[Third Strike]

Here’s what the new redrawn NCGA maps will look like. Mecklenburg’s maps are on page 18:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p5bEpSqEL1DXmip1HmIm18iRNNwjdJG2/view

 

[Dale]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:26 PM, kermit said:

Taking your post literally I can say that I agree with you. The ACC and NCAA did the right thing when they moved games out of NC because of HB2. And I agree that its a shame that they played a basketball game in China -- the next time I smoke a bowl with John Swafford I'll bring this up. 

Doing the right thing in one context  doesn't obligate an organization to do the right thing in every other context -- every married person knows that you gotta pick your battles. 

I just think it's interesting the way the ACC and NCAA have come crawling back now that HB2 is [not really] repealed.

[AirNostrumMAD]

22 minutes ago, Dale said:

I just think it's interesting the way the ACC and NCAA have come crawling back now that HB2 is [not really] repealed.

 

Wasn’t it vice versa? NC came crawling back to the business community after not really banning cities from passing their own ordinances?

[southslider]

^beating a zombie horse

 

[Dale]

8 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Wasn’t it vice versa? NC came crawling back to the business community after not really banning cities from passing their own ordinances?

NC did buckle in that they punted to 2020. My point is that entities like the ACC and NCAA have returned to the very situation that had them running from the room screaming.

7 hours ago, southslider said:

^beating a zombie horse

 

Why does everything these days have to be zombies and avocado sandwiches ?

[southslider]

^overkill

[Nick2]

Is anyone pissed off that they're going to be repealing net neutrality against a literal supermajority of americans who support it? Anyone have any thoughts on the topic? I've already personally signed statements, sent in comments/complaints, and called my local house representative. They don't have any power over the FCC but once the skum known as ajit pai removes internet freedom, maybe they'll be inclined to do something with congressional legislation to protect the internet as a utility.

[rancenc]

Kudos to my home town of Salisbury in which the new council was sworn in last night with some first.....first African-American female mayor along with the first Jewish mayor pro-temp and the first gay council member.

http://www.salisburypost.com/2017/12/06/al-heggins-elected-salisburys-first-african-american-mayor-david-post-elected-mayor-pro-tem/

[rancenc]

This was posted in the Triad section, but what a crappy rename for the airport that serves that area!!http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/article/news/local/pti-airport-to-be-renamed-central-north-carolina-international-airport/83-500613962

[rancenc]

The recently passed Federal Tax bill left intact the federal tax incentive for historic building but with modifications.  Here is an article from the Chicago Tribune discussing the potential long term negativity of this modification to future rehab projects.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kamin/ct-met-preservation-tax-credit-kamin-1221-story.html

[asthasr]

On 12/19/2017 at 7:45 PM, rancenc said:

This was posted in the Triad section, but what a crappy rename for the airport that serves that area!!http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/article/news/local/pti-airport-to-be-renamed-central-north-carolina-international-airport/83-500613962

What in the world are they doing? That's a terrible name. The Triad continues to shoot itself in the foot.

[kermit]

Since we are straying from the topic I thought I would move my response here. I do appreciate the civilized dialog, as someone whose job depends on civilized debate and engagement this is a subject that I struggle with.

On 6/4/2018 at 10:50 AM, JBS said:

Respectfully, I am confused about how the NCGA has done significant damage to your fiscal well-being.  I'm not a fan either but they haven't impacted me in any meaningful way (though the strong economy is helping my 401K and my home value, taxes remain low, my kids attend UNCC for bargain tuition, etc.).  I also don't see them actively working to destroy North Carolina.  Maybe I'm just missing it, you seem to have a lot of people who agree with you.

The NCGAs negative impacts to my wealth are two fold. First, as a property owner in Charlotte and the Triangle negative press associated with HB2 certainly reduced my pool of potential buyers (of people with professional level incomes who wan't to live in an urban neighborhood).   While its certainly true that property values weren't up during that time, it seems virtually certain that urban real estate would have appreciated more if HB2 never happened (how many companies did not add jobs to Charlotte as a result of HB2? That number is not zero). If HB2 resulted in 1% less property price appreciation in Charlotte in Raleigh for the year it was in effect then that took more out of my pocket than any state level tax cut will ever replace.  The NCGA is creating additional downward pressure of urban real estate values with their consistent anti-urban (and anti-university) legislation the NCGA is pursuing -- their intransigence with transit, their desire to reallocate sales tax revenues out of urban areas and desire to strip cities of significant assets all combines to create long-term obstacles to urban growth.

EDIT: This quote appeared in a TBJ article two days after I posted this. The effects of HB2 are clearly lingering in the context of industrial recruitment: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/06/06/could-a-hate-crimes-bill-help-lure-amazon-and.html

Quote

Although it was, for the most part, repealed last year, Amazon and Apple have both asked about HB2 in their visits. And, before they agree to bring thousands of jobs to the Triangle, they may seek some kind of a permanent resolution from the General Assembly that such provisions would not be adopted in the future.

The second way the NCGA took money out of my pocket was that HB2 (and the associated eradication of a socially progressive state-level policies) has had the direct result of my very politically aware daughter refusing to attend college in state. I don't get to share in the bargain tuition that I have been paying to support for 30+ years. While this is a relatively personal impact, my daughter is quite clear that her decision is a result of HB2 and its half-assed repeal. 

My 401k is up as well, but that is largely a product of forces and policies happening outside of NC (thus not the subject of this discussion)

 

On 6/4/2018 at 10:50 AM, JBS said:

Politicians and parties thrive on creating opposition to their opponents.  The language you use is similar to what I hear from Republicans regarding Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, etc.  In my opinion, they are all corrupt.  More to the point, they are dividing us as a country.  Fox News (which I abhor) was a response to the biased media in this country (keep in mind that I financially support PBS and love NPR).  I had a great conversation with an acquaintance at the Y prior to the election and we both detest Trump and opposed him.  He was confused and dismayed when I felt similarly (though not as strongly) about Clinton and wouldn't support her.  I badly want to support Democrats because of Trump and how Republicans have embraced him.  Unfortunately, they are pushing me away with rhetoric and dishonesty and ideas that have been proven to not work.  Dan McCready will be the first Democrat I vote for in my life but unfortunately he may be the last (I'll never vote for a Republican again).  From my perspective, nothing will ever change as long as people continue to give "their side" a pass.  

Now, back to transit! 

I am under no illusions, politicians are driven by self-interest. None of my dismissivness of the NCGA is related to giving the other side a pass (I am not a registered democrat).  The difference (in my mind) with the contemporary right (as represented by the current NCGA) is that they 1) blatantly ignore the deliberative principles of democracy (e.g. the most recent budget "negotiation")   and 2) believe that their ideology is more important than evidence and logic (e.g. their climate change legislation or their anti-urban policies). These two things have enabled them to dismiss any input that they disagree with -- thus efforts to debate them (civilly or uncivilly) are pointless.  Since the NCGA has repeatedly demonstrated that they are unwilling to engage with me at all I am quite comfortable referring to them as Right Wing Nut Jobs.   They are not politicians, they are tyrants, and  (IMO) they should be called out as such.

Edited June 6, 2018 by kermit

[JacksonH]

 

I'm moving over to here a discussion that was started by "skymiler" on page 20 of this thread:  https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118129-509-south-tryon-possible-duke-energy-tower/?page=20

That thread was supposed to be about a new Duke Energy Tower, but skymiler took it off track and into politics, making it about his love for Donald Trump.  Although skymiler's hyperbolic comments were effectively challenged through page 21 of that thread, rather than just concede, and also accede to the requests of others to cease with the political discussion in that thread, he continued to dig a deeper hole with the comments I have reposted below, and to which I respond.

 

You're right....wasn't fare.  I'll keep checking my 401k, and bank accounts every day and laughing my ass off at all you far leftist who can't stand the success.  I dont need to google or research all these left wing articles that are written to support a false narrative. Thank you Donald Trump for MAGA!  

Donald Trump referred to his voters as "uneducated."  He said they would support him even if he went out on 5th Avenue in New York and shot someone.  Are you trying to prove him right?  When I told you to Google, I was telling you to Google the Dow Jones, not any articles.  The friggin' Dow Jones is a measure of investment activity.  It is not political.  It's just numbers.  Good grief.  I guess you prefer "alternative facts" to actual hard data.

Most of links I provided are from The Wall Street Journal and Donald Trump's own Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Federal Reserve, and others from right-leaning Fortune and Forbes.  Do you even know what The Wall Street Journal is?  It's owned by Rupert Murdoch, who would be shocked to learn he and his publication are leftist.

I gave you those sources instead of others because I predicted you would bring up that lazy old "liberal media" cop-out that people use when they lack critical thinking skills and are incapable of proving the information is false.   But even though I referenced articles from right-wing sources, or simply pointed to government or market data, you still throw out that tired old (and in this case false) refrain rather than actually addressing the issues, which I repeat: 

• Real wages have remained unchanged between 2017 and 2018, in spite of the tax cuts (https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/real-average-hourly-earnings-unchanged-from-may-2017-to-may-2018.htm   );
• Companies are using the savings from the tax cuts for stock buybacks rather than raising wages (https://www.wsj.com/articles/boom-in-share-buybacks-renews-question-of-who-wins-from-tax-cuts-1519900200 );
• the CBO is reporting that the national debt is soaring under Trump since his tax cuts (  http://fortune.com/2018/06/27/cbo-report-national-debt-rise-tax-bill-spending/ ), which likely means the Republican Congress will go after entitlements rather than address the tax cuts mostly benefiting the wealthy;  
• the Trump Administration's efforts will allow for the removal of protections for people with pre-existing health conditions (https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/06/21/the-trump-administrations-squeeze-on-affordable-health-insurance-for-50-64-year-olds/#16717a6a1d94  and  https://www.npr.org/2018/06/08/618263772/trump-administration-move-imperils-pre-existing-condition-protections ), thus increasing costs to middle income people while their salaries remain stagnant.
• There are indicators that a recession is coming (https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/chance-of-a-recession-in-the-us-keeps-growing/7CB09D87-B08E-4D2B-A468-D75C9E9467B6.html )  Normally, a government responds to a recession with some sort of stimulus, like tax cuts.  But we already got  the tax cuts in the middle of an economy that didn't need tax cuts.  And with the debt now soaring, we can't afford a stimulus.  So the government's ability to combat the effects of a recession will be limited.

 

Just because you challenged me:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/818B284E-C465-11E7-BFE9-BAAC967E0E54

 

Did that whole discussion about the Dow go completely over your head?  You're posting an article from November 2017.  I told you to go Google the Dow Jones and look at the trend line, which has been going up since 2009.  I explained to you what my financial advisor said about market uncertainty in 2016 and how the gains after the election were simply the market getting back on the trend it had already been on since 2009.  Kermit even saved you the trouble of Googling information by posting graphs of the S&P 500 and GDP from 2009 to the present so you can see the OBVIOUS trend.  He couldn't have made it any easier for you.  And I pointed out that since the beginning of 2018 and Trump's tariff talk, the market has flatlined.  In fact, the Dow now is around 10% lower than where it was in January.  And it just lost another 132 points yesterday.  But you run away from addressing any of that and respond with this old article?  Below is another picture for you.  There is a marker from when that article was published (November 8, 2017).  You can see that, at that time, the market was still on that upward trend that had begun in 2009.  But on January 26 of this year it peaked, then dropped and hasn't been back up since.  It's currently at 24,174, which is not substantially higher than where it was when that article was written (23,563).

 

 

 

[southslider]

The above line graph shows the market peaked one year into the current administration. Other graphs show a large recovery started about the same time now into the prior administration.  Basically, it takes about a year or so to see the impacts of a political economy. Recent and growing isolationist policies will be affecting the market going forward. 

[skymiler]

3 hours ago, JacksonH said:

 

I'm moving over to here a discussion that was started by "skymiler" on page 20 of this thread:  https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118129-509-south-tryon-possible-duke-energy-tower/?page=20

That thread was supposed to be about a new Duke Energy Tower, but skymiler took it off track and into politics, making it about his love for Donald Trump.  Although skymiler's hyperbolic comments were effectively challenged through page 21 of that thread, rather than just concede, and also accede to the requests of others to cease with the political discussion in that thread, he continued to dig a deeper hole with the comments I have reposted below, and to which I respond.

 

Donald Trump referred to his voters as "uneducated."  He said they would support him even if he went out on 5th Avenue in New York and shot someone.  Are you trying to prove him right?  When I told you to Google, I was telling you to Google the Dow Jones, not any articles.  The friggin' Dow Jones is a measure of investment activity.  It is not political.  It's just numbers.  Good grief.  I guess you prefer "alternative facts" to actual hard data.

Most of links I provided are from The Wall Street Journal and Donald Trump's own Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Federal Reserve, and others from right-leaning Fortune and Forbes.  Do you even know what The Wall Street Journal is?  It's owned by Rupert Murdoch, who would be shocked to learn he and his publication are leftist.

I gave you those sources instead of others because I predicted you would bring up that lazy old "liberal media" cop-out that people use when they lack critical thinking skills and are incapable of proving the information is false.   But even though I referenced articles from right-wing sources, or simply pointed to government or market data, you still throw out that tired old (and in this case false) refrain rather than actually addressing the issues, which I repeat: 

• Real wages have remained unchanged between 2017 and 2018, in spite of the tax cuts (https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/real-average-hourly-earnings-unchanged-from-may-2017-to-may-2018.htm   );
• Companies are using the savings from the tax cuts for stock buybacks rather than raising wages (https://www.wsj.com/articles/boom-in-share-buybacks-renews-question-of-who-wins-from-tax-cuts-1519900200 );
• the CBO is reporting that the national debt is soaring under Trump since his tax cuts (  http://fortune.com/2018/06/27/cbo-report-national-debt-rise-tax-bill-spending/ ), which likely means the Republican Congress will go after entitlements rather than address the tax cuts mostly benefiting the wealthy;  
• the Trump Administration's efforts will allow for the removal of protections for people with pre-existing health conditions (https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/06/21/the-trump-administrations-squeeze-on-affordable-health-insurance-for-50-64-year-olds/#16717a6a1d94  and  https://www.npr.org/2018/06/08/618263772/trump-administration-move-imperils-pre-existing-condition-protections ), thus increasing costs to middle income people while their salaries remain stagnant.
• There are indicators that a recession is coming (https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/chance-of-a-recession-in-the-us-keeps-growing/7CB09D87-B08E-4D2B-A468-D75C9E9467B6.html )  Normally, a government responds to a recession with some sort of stimulus, like tax cuts.  But we already got  the tax cuts in the middle of an economy that didn't need tax cuts.  And with the debt now soaring, we can't afford a stimulus.  So the government's ability to combat the effects of a recession will be limited.

 

 

Did that whole discussion about the Dow go completely over your head?  You're posting an article from November 2017.  I told you to go Google the Dow Jones and look at the trend line, which has been going up since 2009.  I explained to you what my financial advisor said about market uncertainty in 2016 and how the gains after the election were simply the market getting back on the trend it had already been on since 2009.  Kermit even saved you the trouble of Googling information by posting graphs of the S&P 500 and GDP from 2009 to the present so you can see the OBVIOUS trend.  He couldn't have made it any easier for you.  And I pointed out that since the beginning of 2018 and Trump's tariff talk, the market has flatlined.  In fact, the Dow now is around 10% lower than where it was in January.  And it just lost another 132 points yesterday.  But you run away from addressing any of that and respond with this old article?  Below is another picture for you.  There is a marker from when that article was published (November 8, 2017).  You can see that, at that time, the market was still on that upward trend that had begun in 2009.  But on January 26 of this year it peaked, then dropped and hasn't been back up since.  It's currently at 24,174, which is not substantially higher than where it was when that article was written (23,563).

 

 

 

How am I digging a hole?  Am I in some kind of trouble? That's ridiculous.   Technically I did not start this.  I simply asked a question about the doom and gloom comment about a tower not getting built because the economy may collapse. 

My experience since the 2016 election has been very positive,  regarding the economy,  my personal coffers,  outlook on my job and company.  

My mistake was even mentioning the current POTUS on a board that's frequented by a bunch of liberals.  I don't have anything personal against liberals, I'm a registered Independent and my voting record reflects such. I have voted left in the past, but will be hard to do in the future with the Socialist movement.   I know I'm in the minority here,  and that's okay but I think it's laughable that the left is so angry, hateful,  divisive (see Maxine Waters and most if Hollywood) and unwilling go give the current administration a chance.

Above you call out Trump for calling his voters uneducated....I'm sure if said, it was taken out of context like most things he says and MSNBC and CNN report on.  If he said and meant it, then it's no worse than be called a deplorable by HRC.

I dont frequent the coffee house, and only came here because of your comments about me digging a hole.  I'll close with this....no need to worry about me, as I'm safe.  I'm not in a hole, I'm sitting out back by my pool enjoying a nice cold Dos Equis, thankful for a great job, great family,  great Country,  a promising president who has in less than 2 years fulfilled most of his campaign promises and first and foremost a great God!

Happy Independence Day.  We wouldn't be able to do what we do without all those Patriots who were willing to fight for our rights!

[Crucial_Infra]

[In the spirit of of the holiday, I've decided to remove my pithy comment. Happy 4th all] 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Crucial_Infra

[kermit]

even the alt-right fascists take transit these days, but they are not very good at it:

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by kermit

[kermit]

While I lament the loss of some political balance on the County Commission I hope Bill "was your son a homo?” James doesn't let the screen door hit him on the way out. He has been making Charlotte look backwards for more than a quarter century. He was even involved in the Angels in America / ASC defunding crusades back in 1996.

Edited November 7, 2018 by kermit

[cltbwimob]

Glad to see Jim Puckett gone too, although I hate to see single party rule on any level of government.  Too bad that commissioners like Bill James and Jim Puckett were the only hope for balance in the commission.   Why can't there be more Edwin Peacock type Republicans running for local office?

Edited November 7, 2018 by cltbwimob

[Dale]

Even the liberal Observer is chastising Charlotteans for going 9-0.

[tozmervo]

Bill Brawley is the only state legislator from the Republican Party left in Mecklenburg county, and he only won by 52 votes. Bokhari and Driggs are the only Charlotte council members* from the GOP. Not much of a welcome delegation for the Rep Convention - I guess we'll see how the municipal election goes next year. 

*The towns elect non-partisan council and mayors

Edited November 7, 2018 by tozmervo
legislature legislator, tomato tomato