Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[urbanlover568]

Pray for Chicago 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by urbanlover568

[kermit]

Also keep in mind that Biden has never suggested defunding the police but President cheeto actually has regularly reduced funding from police departments and does have plans to cut police budgets more substantially in the future:

Federal funding cuts to police in response to local sanctuary policies:

https://ctmirror.org/2020/07/31/trump-administration-defunds-ct-police-in-sanctuary-policy-likely-to-come-under-supreme-court-review/

Cuts to federal subsidies in police hiring:

Quote

Trump’s budgets have routinely proposed police cuts

In early February of this year, the Trump administration proposed a 58 percent cutin the federal government’s COPS Hiring Program, a federal program that supports police department staffing. That’s not a one-off; his administration’s budget proposals have routinely called for huge cuts to this program, which was inaugurated in the 1990s as part of Bill Clinton’s pledge to hire 100,000 new police officers (Congress keeps declining to do this).

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/16/21286669/donald-trump-is-defunding-the-police
(While some may call Vox a biased source, I think all would agree that it is more fair, balanced, and better sourced than tucker carlson)

In the absence of federal support for local governments in our current economy, police budgets everywhere will be cut substantially. Donald has already shown us that he does not care if no one picks up your 911 call.

Edited August 22, 2020 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

Pray for New York City also

v

 

 

[kermit]

^ please learn how to interpret trend data properly.

Here is the historic shooting incident data from NYPD, this should give us a better sense of scale on the recent spike. Incidents groups by year (chart above groups by 14 days) 

 Source: https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Public-Safety/NYPD-Shooting-Incident-Data-Historic-/833y-fsy8

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, kermit said:

^ please learn how to interpret trend data properly.

Take your own advice.

[videtur quam contuor]

2 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

What the past few years of experience has taught me is that I should think before I make a call for the police. If this is a bona fide, serious, criminal issue needing immediate intervention, likely yes. Is this a neighbor or family member with mental or emotional issues? Is this a contravention of social or community norms? Is it something a slow cautious withdrawal would render moot? Am I part of the event myself? Could I enlist the help of others? Is there another way to deal with the issue? If yes, then leave 911 out of it.

Power dynamics requires that once an appeal to the power higher in the hierarchy is requested then the higher position owns the situation. I am no longer an intervenor. The police may (will) act as they wish without answer to my interests or desires. Same system as in an office, workplace, or elsewhere. When one asks for assistance from one in higher position then you thus cede all power to that person. That is implicit in power structures.

Re: police response. It may surprise others, as it did me, that the police in the U. S. do not owe a duty to supply service to citizens. In other words, if one calls for a police officer and the police officer or department does not respond as they should that is within their remit. They owe you no response. Absent a special relationship (?)

"The trial judges held that the police were under no specific legal duty to provide protection to the individual plaintiffs and dismissed the complaints. In a 2–1 decision,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

[kermit]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:14 PM, urbanlover568 said:

Why can't a healthy individual go to the voting booth that practices social distancing and mask usage? Is "Dictator" trump stopping you?

More evidence of dictator-like behavior: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-suggestion-of-deploying-law-enforcement-officials-to-monitor-polls-raises-specter-of-intimidation/2020/08/21/4ff6407a-e3bb-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

and yes, it does appear he plans to use law officers to discourage people from going to a voting booth.

Quote

In an interview Thursday with Fox News host Sean Hannity, Trump described law enforcement officers as part of a phalanx of authorities he hopes will monitor voting in November.

“We’re going to have everything,” the president said. “We’re going to have sheriffs, and we’re going to have law enforcement, and we’re going to hopefully have U.S. attorneys and we’re going to have everybody, and attorney generals. But it’s very hard.”

Quote

Trump’s remarks are part of a pattern of comments in which he has suggested he is willing to take actions to impede how people cast their ballots this fall. He has repeatedly sought to undermine confidence in the November vote, making false claims about the integrity of mail-in balloting and raising the specter of widespread electoral fraud. Earlier this month, he floated the idea of withholding election money from states and refusing funding for the U.S. Postal Service so as to curtail the use of voting by mail.

Quote

The president has limited authority to order law enforcement to patrol polling places. Sheriff’s deputies and police officers are commanded at the local level, and a federal law bars U.S. government officials from sending “armed men” to the vicinity of polling places.

Quote

“The reason why the Republican Party was under a consent decree for 40 years was for precisely this kind of behavior in 1981,” he said. “It would be unfortunate if, having come out from under that consent decree, they now try to repeat those tactics.”

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by kermit

[elrodvt]

Another example of the need for BLM movement.  Pretty bad misconduct by the Georgia authorities.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html

[urbanlover568]

 

[kermit]

^ the trump administration is responsible for killing many of the 170,000 americans who have died from covid-19 as well as tanking the economy through their incompetent response. We could have saved tens of thousands of lives and TRILLIONS of dollars with a decent nationwide testing plan alone.

which would you say is the more pressing issue? (Portland protests or thousands of unnecessary deaths) 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kermit

[DMann]

There you go again Kermit with your facts and science stuff!

[Blue_Devil]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:13 AM, kermit said:

As we listen to fear mongering from the right it is important to keep in mind that violent crime is at generational lows and has been declining steadily since the early 1990s. This has been a demographically driven trend. 
 

Unfortunately our political environment and the media have caused the public to perceive that crime is increasing rather than declining. 

 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/17/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Problem is your graph ends at 2018. Cities are seeing huge spikes right now

[kermit]

3 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

Problem is your graph ends at 2018. Cities are seeing huge spikes right now

the spikes are big in the current context, but just a blip in comparison to how far crime rates have declined since the early 1990s.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-convinced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-crime-coronavirus.html

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kermit

[Blue_Devil]

Just now, kermit said:

the spikes are big in the current context, but just a blip in comparison to how far crime rates have declined since the early 1990s.

Yah I don’t know about blips. It’s not 70s level activity but major cities are seeing increasing crime across the board. Chicago is on pace to break almost all of their records. Murder rates are up an average of 24% in the top 10 major cities. If these trends continue, we will start seeing a major urban flight. In fact we already are in Chicago and New York 

[kermit]

up 24% from what base?

Murders up 24% in NYC should take the city back to slightly below 2012 levels, were people fleeing NYC in 2012 because it was a crime-soaked hellhole?

Edited August 23, 2020 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

^ the trump administration is responsible for killing many of the 170,000 americans who have died from covid-19 as well as tanking the economy through their incompetent response. We could have saved tens of thousands of lives and TRILLIONS of dollars with a decent nationwide testing plan alone.

which would you say is the more pressing issue? (Portland protests or thousands of unnecessary deaths) 

 

I think the protest speaker brought up a argument that should be talked about. The protest speaker told the white resident that they are occupying former black occupied land. South Africa is applying the same principal and seizing white-owned land, that was formerly black owned, without compensation and redistributing to the black population. They are in the process is changing their constitution to make this happen. 

 

"Take That, Colonizer: South Africa to Seize All White-Owned Land"

https://www.ebony.com/news/south-africa-reparations-white-land/

 

 

As for your unemployment statistics:

 

 

[kermit]

^ are you trying to tell me that the economy "isn't actually that bad"?

[urbanlover568]

Just now, kermit said:

^ are you trying to tell me that the economy "isn't actually that bad"?

It is improving per the graphs. 

[kermit]

7 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

It is improving per the graphs. 

Sure, but its still at a generational-level of awful. Why do we currently have 10+% unemployment and a looming housing crises?

Edited August 23, 2020 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, kermit said:

Sure, but its still at a generational-level of awful. Why do we currently have 10+% unemployment and a looming housing crises?

I call 15% to 10% in a few months a marked improvement, but you won't see it that way with your "orange man bad" attitude.

 

The housing affordability index is significantly better than what it was 13 years ago:

Also,

 

Retail is also booming:

[kermit]

3 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

I call 15% to 10% in a few months a marked improvement, but you won't see it that way with your "orange man bad" attitude.

I call 15% the worst unemployment since the Great Depression. You want to pat him on the back for dropping the rate to  10.2%, but that is the highest rate in 28 years. These numbers are horrific.

Who put us in this situation? donald did.

Could this economic collapse have been prevented?  Yup, the remainder of the developed world shows us how.

Does this 100 year economic collapse make our current leader bad? Lets do the math:  The "orange man" has destroyed the livelihoods of millions of american workers and small business owners and gotten 170,000+ killed. All while he golfs and says that "he takes absolutely no responsibility." I think the answer here is pretty clear. 

 

 

[urbanlover568]

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

I call 15% the worst unemployment since the Great Depression. You want to pat him on the back for dropping the rate to  10.2%, but that is the highest rate in 28 years. These numbers are horrific.

Who put us in this situation? donald did.

Could this economic collapse have been prevented?  Yup, the remainder of the developed world shows us how.

Does this 100 year economic collapse make our current leader bad? Lets do the math:  The "orange man" has destroyed the livelihoods of millions of american workers and small business owners and gotten 170,000+ killed. All while he golfs and says that "he takes absolutely no responsibility." I think the answer here is pretty clear. 

 

 

Everything is Trump's fault apparently.

 

IT'S THE LOCKDOWNS THAT CAUSED HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT.

 

But your orange man bad attitude tells you trump is the fault for a state imposed lockdowns and therefore causing furloughs. Just unbelievable. 

 

Is Trump the cause of Canada's 15% unemployment also? Get over yourself. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by urbanlover568

[kermit]

3 hours ago, urbanlover568 said:

Everything is Trump's fault apparently.

 

IT'S THE LOCKDOWNS THAT CAUSED HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT.

 

But your orange man bad attitude tells you trump is the fault for a state imposed lockdowns and therefore causing furloughs. Just unbelievable. 

 

Is Trump the cause of Canada's 15% unemployment also? Get over yourself. 

Once again you gobsmacked me with your mind-boggling denial of reality. I’ll spare us both a discussion of how a moderately competent federal strategy for test provision, small business subsidies, contact tracing, PPE provision, national reporting standards, national mask policy, etc would have spared us from any lockdowns of more than a month. Instead I’ll just say:

THE TRUMP VIRUS KILLED THE ECONOMY

Go ahead and cling to your notion that governors (Including DeSantis and Abbott) locked down their states only to make Mango Mussolini look bad. The runaway Trump virus was undeniably the proximate cause of the lockdowns.  

I always regret it when I forget to follow the pig wrestling rule.
 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

19 minutes ago, kermit said:

Once again you gobsmacked me with your mind-boggling denial of reality. I’ll spare us both a discussion of how a moderately competent federal strategy for test provision, small business subsidies, contact tracing, PPE provision, national reporting standards, national mask policy, etc would have spared us from any lockdowns of more than a month. Instead I’ll just say:

THE TRUMP VIRUS KILLED THE ECONOMY

Go ahead and cling to your notion that governors (Including DeSantis and Abbott) locked down their states only to make Mango Mussolini look bad. The runaway Trump virus was undeniably the proximate cause of the lockdowns.  

I always regret it when I forget to follow the pig wrestling rule.
 

Trump Killed the US Economy, Canadian, and UK economy.  Orange man bad!  

[urbanlover568]

Follow-up:

Woman charged after video shows theft of boy's MAGA hat, sign ripped in Wilmington

https://www.wdel.com/news/woman-charged-after-video-shows-theft-of-boys-maga-hat-sign-ripped-in-wilmington/article_56e561ec-e490-11ea-bdd1-f3a8be7e71b6.html