Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[urbanlover568]

6 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

Is it Trump or Nancy who is sacrificing them? Seems like trump will sign a bill for Bailing out the airlines, and giving more $1,200 checks. Whole thing is ridiculous, and shows how far over the edge on both sides the politicians have gone. People need help. 

I think Trump was upset that Pelosi's bill had two things he didn't like. one was a marijuana banking amendment and the other was to close the tax loophole he used to pay 750 dollar in taxes from. 

[urbanlover568]

Quick recap on the deals...

DEM: $3.4T -> $2.2T = $1.2T Decrease

REP: $1.2T -> 1.8T = $0.6T Increase 

 

 

[elrodvt]

@Blue_Devil, read the article below if you have time and see if you have a change of heart. FWIW, It's pretty obvious to me (to be fair I'm an admitted progressive) who the bad actors are here. Suggesting neither side is willing to negotiate is not true and it's obvious to me who is primarily culpable here.  Are the Democrats partly to blame? Sure. But they have tried to negotiate since May and actually have cards laid down on the table. The GOP is not unified and thus has no proposal of their own.

I just don't get the political calculus  though. It seems like a real loser for the GOP. Although,  I guess that assumes people are actually following the issue and not just sticking with their ” side”?

The Hill: Senate Republicans rip new White House coronavirus proposal | TheHill.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/520489-senate-republicans-rip-new-white-house-coronavirus-proposal

Edited October 11, 2020 by elrodvt

[kermit]

I knew Donald trashed voter's views on morality forever, but this genuinely surprised me. I guess this political scandal was more comical (and harmless) than most.

https://twitter.com/JMilesColeman/status/1315750890939318272?s=20

Edited October 13, 2020 by kermit

[elrodvt]

38 minutes ago, kermit said:

I knew Donald trashed voter's views on morality forever, but this genuinely surprised me. I guess this political scandal was more comical (and harmless) than most.

https://twitter.com/JMilesColeman/status/1315750890939318272?s=20

I think the way to read this is that Trump is crashing big time and hurting down ballot candidates as he goes. The plumit in his polling after the debate and covid issue is pretty remarkable.

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

I knew Donald trashed voter's views on morality forever, but this genuinely surprised me. I guess this political scandal was more comical (and harmless) than most.

https://twitter.com/JMilesColeman/status/1315750890939318272?s=20

I'm shocked. SurveyUSA is a well regarded pollster, too. The stats are bizarre if you read into the poll report - it appears Cunningham's big advantage is... well, men.  https://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/state/nccapitol/2020/10/12/19332468/PollPrint-DMID1-5ohw9o5y4.pdf

_{(don't blame me, I voted for Erica Smith)}

[Nick2]

Heck it might have gotten some of the more traditionalist, somewhat more conservative men to like him. The kind of guy who would dismiss grabbing women by the kitty as just locker room talk.

[kermit]

 

 

[urbanlover568]

Amy Coney Barrett refused to say whether same sex marriage ruling was right and whether to say anti-sodomy laws were legal. This is horrifying! 

[kermit]

4 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

Amy Coney Barrett refused to say whether same sex marriage ruling was right and whether to say anti-sodomy laws were legal. This is horrifying! 

Welcome to the revolution Urbanlover568

[TCLT]

Amy Coney Barrett refused to say whether same sex marriage ruling was right and whether to say anti-sodomy laws were legal. This is horrifying! 

[videtur quam contuor]

Michael Beschloss

 

@BeschlossDC

 

Please protect our beloved United States from those who will not try to protect our democracy from danger until they find it politically safe to do so.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by tarhoosier

[kermit]

[gman430]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, urbanlover568 said:

Amy Coney Barrett refused to say whether same sex marriage ruling was right and whether to say anti-sodomy laws were legal. This is horrifying! 

I think it’s beautiful. 

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

On 10/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, urbanlover568 said:

Amy Coney Barrett refused to say whether same sex marriage ruling was right and whether to say anti-sodomy laws were legal. This is horrifying! 

I think it’s beautiful. 

 

Well well well what have we here? In one post we see both sides of the coin of modern American Conservatism: the idiot and the asshole.

[elrodvt]

^wonderful summary!

[nicholas]

4 hours ago, TCLT said:

Well well well what have we here? In one post we see both sides of the coin of modern American Conservatism: the idiot and the asshole.

Yes, because obviously anyone who doesn't share the same views as you is either an idiot or a-hole. 

As a moderate conservative, it has always been my opinion that the federal government doesn't have any business regulating who can and can't get married.

[elrodvt]

36 minutes ago, nicholas said:

Yes, because obviously anyone who doesn't share the same views as you is either an idiot or a-hole. 

As a moderate conservative, it has always been my opinion that the federal government doesn't have any business regulating who can and can't get married.

You don't think someone making fun of someone else's sexual preferences is being an a-hole? Do you really mean that? 

You don't think the other party has continued to be unable to follow this thread and post without dumb memes? His surprise is pretty ironic to say the least - if not dumb.

I think he was right on. 

[urbanlover568]

5 hours ago, TCLT said:

 

Well well well what have we here? In one post we see both sides of the coin of modern American Conservatism: the idiot and the asshole.

That's uncalled for. We need to have proper debate and not namecall like kindergarteners That moves the debate nowhere. 

 

The question is will the supreme court overturn Obergefell v. Hodges,  Bostock v. Clayton County, or Lawrence v. Texas. Marriage should be removed and have unions federally replace them. That way marriage will stay within the church if wished, but the privileges afforded through marriage will be for all union holders. If you think "federal government doesn't have any business regulating who can and can't get married.", then remove marriage from the federal government and replace it with union.

7 hours ago, gman430 said:

I think it’s beautiful. 

If my Husband is on his deathbed and our marriage is annulled and I can't be by his side, think that's beautiful? I don't.  

[TCLT]

10 minutes ago, nicholas said:

Yes, because obviously anyone who doesn't share the same views as you is either an idiot or a-hole. 

Now see, you're responding to an argument that I didn't make. Never once did I say or imply that they're idiots or assholes simply because I disagree with them.

urbanlover568 supports a political party that is fundamentally and openly opposed to equal rights and liberties for the LGBTQ+ community and then is shocked when that party works to undermine and dismantle the hard fought gains of that community. Idiot.

gman430 is perfectly happy to see the government step in and prescribe with whom, or how, a person has sex. He's perfectly happy to see the government intervene to dictate and limit where, when, and how people can peaceably assemble and demonstrate (if they're black). But he loses his pathetically small mind when the government mandates people wear masks or avoid large gatherings during a pandemic. Asshole.

And let's not forget that you, my dear nicholas, are gullible enough to believe (and post) bullcrap conspiracies and think that black people are to blame for their problems and aren't in well paying careers because they just aren't that interested in them. Idiot and asshole.

On 6/1/2020 at 10:36 AM, nicholas said:

There are not a ton of black lawyers, doctors, etc out there.  Perhaps these fields simply do not interest them in general (sort of like how you don't see a lot of women in construction).

This is a pattern with the right wing of this country. American Conservativism has devolved into an intellectually and morally bankrupt amalgam of destructive white nationalism and shameless corruption. It requires a complete rejection of reality, a staggering amount of hypocrisy, and a depressing lack of empathy. Conservatives aren't idiots and assholes because I disagree with them. I disagree with them because they're idiots and assholes. And if you're gonna get upset at being called one, don't leave the receipts to prove the accusation correct.

2 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

That's uncalled for.

 

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Now see, you're responding to an argument that I didn't make. Never once did I say or imply that they're idiots or assholes simply because I disagree with them.

urbanlover568  Idiot.

 

Not all Republicans are homophobes, so quit your name calling. 

[nicholas]

29 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Now see, you're responding to an argument that I didn't make. Never once did I say or imply that they're idiots or assholes simply because I disagree with them.

urbanlover568 supports a political party that is fundamentally and openly opposed to equal rights and liberties for the LGBTQ+ community and then is shocked when that party works to undermine and dismantle the hard fought gains of that community. Idiot.

gman430 is perfectly happy to see the government step in and prescribe with whom, or how, a person has sex. He's perfectly happy to see the government intervene to dictate and limit where, when, and how people can peaceably assemble and demonstrate (if they're black). But he loses his pathetically small mind when the government mandates people wear masks or avoid large gatherings during a pandemic. Asshole.

And let's not forget that you, my dear nicholas, are gullible enough to believe (and post) bullcrap conspiracies and think that black people are to blame for their problems and aren't in well paying careers because they just aren't that interested in them. Idiot and asshole.

This is a pattern with the right wing of this country. American Conservativism has devolved into an intellectually and morally bankrupt amalgam of destructive white nationalism and shameless corruption. It requires a complete rejection of reality, a staggering amount of hypocrisy, and a depressing lack of empathy. Conservatives aren't idiots and assholes because I disagree with them. I disagree with them because they're idiots and assholes. And if you're gonna get upset at being called one, don't leave the receipts to prove the accusation correct.

I don't care who has said what, because there have been tons of comments by both users that have contributed nothing to UP and that I don't agree with.

I maintain that when you have weird circumstances, such as a worldwide pandemic, chronic mis/disinformation, a wet market, an extremely high-level bio research facility, a country that has historically not been friendly to the U.S, etc.....I think it is worthy to question the narrative coming out of that country, especially when that country's initial response was to silence the doctors that were attempting to warn everyone about Covid-19's impact.  If you'll note my comment from back then, I never said that I believed or supported that report, and furthermore I don't think Covid-19 was intentionally released to the public by anyone.

If you don't think individuals are responsible for their own problems, you are truly an idiot.  Blacks are killing fellow blacks at far higher rates than any other race.  That is a fact. Over 75% of non-immigrant black children are born to unwed mothers.  That is a fact.  In 2017, there were more than a dozen fields—largely subfields within science, technology, engineering, and math—in which not a single doctoral degree was awarded to a black person anywhere in the United States.  That is a fact.  The truth can be painful, but the facts don't care about your feelings.

You can't fix problems when you won't even acknowledge that the problems exist.  I'm not going to sink to your level and paint those who I disagree with - progressive liberals - with a broad brush of intolerance and hate.  However, I will say that if you're going to support a mindset that supposedly promotes "diversity of thought", "tolerance", "wokeness", and whatever else the progressive left says it believes in, you'd better practice what you preach...

[TCLT]

I don't care who has said what, because there have been tons of comments by both users that have contributed nothing to UP and that I don't agree with.
I maintain that when you have weird circumstances, such as a worldwide pandemic, chronic mis/disinformation, a wet market, an extremely high-level bio research facility, a country that has historically not been friendly to the U.S, etc.....I think it is worthy to question the narrative coming out of that country, especially when that country's initial response was to silence the doctors that were attempting to warn everyone about Covid-19's impact.  If you'll note my comment from back then, I never said that I believed or supported that report, and furthermore I don't think Covid-19 was intentionally released to the public by anyone.
If you don't think individuals are responsible for their own problems, you are truly an idiot.  Blacks are killing fellow blacks at far higher rates than any other race.  That is a fact. Over 75% of non-immigrant black children are born to unwed mothers.  That is a fact.  In 2017, there were more than a dozen fields—largely subfields within science, technology, engineering, and math—in which not a single doctoral degree was awarded to a black person anywhere in the United States.  That is a fact.  The truth can be painful, but the facts don't care about your feelings.
You can't fix problems when you won't even acknowledge that the problems exist.  I'm not going to sink to your level and paint those who I disagree with - progressive liberals - with a broad brush of intolerance and hate.  However, I will say that if you're going to support a mindset that supposedly promotes "diversity of thought", "tolerance", "wokeness", and whatever else the progressive left says it believes in, you'd better practice what you preach...

Your naiveté would be cute if it wasn’t so harmful.

[Durhamite]

8 hours ago, nicholas said:

I don't care who has said what, because there have been tons of comments by both users that have contributed nothing to UP and that I don't agree with.

I maintain that when you have weird circumstances, such as a worldwide pandemic, chronic mis/disinformation, a wet market, an extremely high-level bio research facility, a country that has historically not been friendly to the U.S, etc.....I think it is worthy to question the narrative coming out of that country, especially when that country's initial response was to silence the doctors that were attempting to warn everyone about Covid-19's impact.  If you'll note my comment from back then, I never said that I believed or supported that report, and furthermore I don't think Covid-19 was intentionally released to the public by anyone.

If you don't think individuals are responsible for their own problems, you are truly an idiot.  Blacks are killing fellow blacks at far higher rates than any other race.  That is a fact. Over 75% of non-immigrant black children are born to unwed mothers.  That is a fact.  In 2017, there were more than a dozen fields—largely subfields within science, technology, engineering, and math—in which not a single doctoral degree was awarded to a black person anywhere in the United States.  That is a fact.  The truth can be painful, but the facts don't care about your feelings.

You can't fix problems when you won't even acknowledge that the problems exist.  I'm not going to sink to your level and paint those who I disagree with - progressive liberals - with a broad brush of intolerance and hate.  However, I will say that if you're going to support a mindset that supposedly promotes "diversity of thought", "tolerance", "wokeness", and whatever else the progressive left says it believes in, you'd better practice what you preach...

Well, damn.  You need to at least realize the SYSTEM is totally broken for Black people.  The education, law and order, judicial, economic system, etc....absolutely skewed. I mean if you ask the average White American what does a thug, criminal, etc look like...well, there you have it.  It was by design and often I use the fictional movie "Trading Places" as an example....switch the environment, switch the outcome.   I have seen instances where (in Corporate America) White people have refused to work with Black people and didn't get fired.  Really, a top salesman didn't like Black people and refused to work with them so the VP simply relocated the Black person to another division (geographical).   HR did nothing. This shat is common, systemic, etc.  I have an advanced degree in Engineering and have worked with White people in similar roles with no degree and degrees in Drama. non-technical fields, etc.  They got in, got trained through years of experience and some actually obtained a degree while working.  Do you think any Black person would even get hired to do certain jobs without the proper credentials?

So you ask us to play poker when we know the deck is stacked against us.  That we know but still keep going....you call it the "hood", and avoid it like the plague...we call it home.  See, Black people know they're aren't inherently dangerous no matter what those fake numbers state.  Hell, we didn't drag White people out of their native land half away around the world, enslave them, bet 'em have to death,  lynch and continue to  treat them many times as second class citizens.  

A lot of people thing Black Lives Matter is solely about police brutality,  nah, it's a system that on every level has a negative impact on Black people and that has to change.....on every level in America .  White people are equally if not more dangerous than Black people, period.  It's about a  economic and justice system skewed against poor people and a society pre-disposed to consider one subset of citizens as guilty without much of a chance of being proven innocent.  And without the financial means to combat the law and order/judicial system racket which is essentially a multi-billion dollar business.  

Help fix the system, and it will help fix America which was broken form it's inception to date.    Start with you....do something instead of blaming damn liberals.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Durhamite

[JHart]

10 hours ago, nicholas said:

If you don't think individuals are responsible for their own problems, you are truly an idiot.  Blacks are killing fellow blacks at far higher rates than any other race.  That is a fact. Over 75% of non-immigrant black children are born to unwed mothers.  That is a fact.  In 2017, there were more than a dozen fields—largely subfields within science, technology, engineering, and math—in which not a single doctoral degree was awarded to a black person anywhere in the United States.  That is a fact.  The truth can be painful, but the facts don't care about your feelings.

You can't fix problems when you won't even acknowledge that the problems exist.  I'm not going to sink to your level and paint those who I disagree with - progressive liberals - with a broad brush of intolerance and hate.  However, I will say that if you're going to support a mindset that supposedly promotes "diversity of thought", "tolerance", "wokeness", and whatever else the progressive left says it believes in, you'd better practice what you preach...

This is the more damaging form of racism that exists all over the United States. In your mind you convince yourself that you're not a racist and you don't hate black people simply because they're different from you. You might not burn crosses into the ground and go on group lynchings with your friends but you actively seek out any information that can make you feel superior to another group of people; you're giddy when you come across a new statistic you found online that you can point out to others that this group of people are clearly second class citizens.

@Durhamite is exactly right that it is systematic racism that has created these issues. We are barely a generation removed from the civil rights era where black people couldn't even use the same restrooms/drinking fountains/restaurants. Charlotte in particular has a long history of systemic racism across the board. Racist white bankers denied loans for certain neighborhoods and redlined entire portions of the city for development, police targeted enforcement of certain areas for crimes that were targeted specifically at minorities instead of whites. It's the new form of white supremacy to ask why an entire race hasn't completely reformed over 1 generation after hundreds of years of systematic oppression..