Jump to content

Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here


Recommended Posts

I believe Trump will never discover that shouting at crowds the most obvious, blatant, unending lies about their governor, their state, their government, their own lived experience, his opponent, history, everything really, has reached beyond the point of diminishing returns. He is now reducing his vote share.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


This sums things up nicely:
 

On the one hand, the Lincoln Project has done some very impressive work and they’re clearly a very talented crew. I do appreciate what they’re doing in this cycle and I hope it actually gets through to enough people who still consider themselves Republicans. On the other hand, I find any whitewashing of the Trump GOP quite distasteful. This was no mistake. The GOP knew exactly what they were getting with him and what they were doing in supporting him. They had a chance to have a spine and morals in 2016, but they cared (and continue to care) more about power than anything else.
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

I believe Trump will never discover that shouting at crowds the most obvious, blatant, unending lies about their governor, their state, their government, their own lived experience, his opponent, history, everything really, has reached beyond the point of diminishing returns. He is now reducing his vote share.

Yes, Trump and Biden both like to exaggerate truth and lies. Their trying to win votes! Most people are not fully informed on the issues. Were dealing with very complex problems. For me it comes down to results and lack of results from past administrations. Logic tells me some things are just out of government control. They have to just work themselves out and we do the best we can while maintaining liberty and freedom.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ The lying by the white house is over the top though. Way beyond anything I've seen from a major party candidate. We're not talking exaggeration here just bald faced lies which are easily debunked. I hope this election will teach some lessons and the lying will diminish. I kinda doubt it though as the average american will not take the time to understand details.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, TCLT said:


On the one hand, the Lincoln Project has done some very impressive work and they’re clearly a very talented crew. I do appreciate what they’re doing in this cycle and I hope it actually gets through to enough people who still consider themselves Republicans. On the other hand, I find any whitewashing of the Trump GOP quite distasteful. This was no mistake. The GOP knew exactly what they were getting with him and what they were doing in supporting him. They had a chance to have a spine and morals in 2016, but they cared (and continue to care) more about power than anything else.

No, it has nothing to do about power. It's about freedom, tyranny and conservative values. I know many republicans that didn't vote in 2016 because they were unsure if Trump was really going to do what he said he was going to do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, CLTramper said:

 I can't deny these quotes. Are they just his opinions? None of these statements resulted in unnecessary deaths. Not ANY politician could have stopped covid. Did Biden stop swine flu?  

the original topic here was the comparison of the volume and magnitude of lies. These are certainly not just opinions, we have learned that donald knew he was saying bullcrap when he said it (Woodward book, etc). He outflat lied about the virus, there is no doubt those lies cost lives. And as I said, the receipts are there to prove they were all lies -- he was intentionally misleading his constituents. Richard Burr's completely immoral profiteering from the federal government's knowledge of the virus prove that.

I didn't say he could have stopped covid, but following a plan, the recommendations of experts in his administration and having recommended  levels of PPE stockpiled (All of which would have been straightforward — a plan was there when he took office) would have eliminated many tens of thousands of  deaths.  These massive errors in judgement don’t even come close to the deaths he caused with his anti-mask, and ‘liberate” BS.

Can you share how Biden lied about H1N1 and caused tens or thousands of unnecessary deaths? He was not directly involved in H1N1 strategy or policy.

Edited by kermit
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, CLTramper said:

Not ANY politician could have stopped covid. Did Biden stop swine flu?  

The first sentence above is just plain wrong considering nearly every other country on the planet is in better shape than us on both the public health and unemployment fronts. The second sentence is, well, just clearly missing the point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TCLT said:

The first sentence above is just plain wrong considering nearly every other country on the planet is in better shape than us on both the public health and unemployment fronts. The second sentence is, well, just clearly missing the point.

I mean, not really... Europe is about to shut down again, despite all of the measures they put in place. and our GDP just bounced back 33.1%. Have other countries handled it slightly better? Yes, and it looks like it did them no good anyway. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, not really... Europe is about to shut down again, despite all of the measures they put in place. and our GDP just bounced back 33.1%. Have other countries handled it slightly better? Yes, and it looks like it did them no good anyway. 

Europe is about to shut down again because they're tolerating far far far lower levels of death and suffering than we are. They are also providing very significant levels of financial support to their workers not to mention the existing layers of support that are already built into the system there. They're doing much better than we are on any meaningful metric.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Europe is about to shut down again because they're tolerating far far far lower levels of death and suffering than we are. They are also providing very significant levels of financial support to their workers not to mention the existing layers of support that are already built into the system there. They're doing much better than we are on any meaningful metric.

I mean... 200,000 have died across Europe... The same number here? 

I mean... France for example has the same death rate as us? 

Edited by Blue_Devil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean... 200,000 have died across Europe... The same number here? 

I mean... Europe has twice the population of america but okay...

Edit: I'm also not sure what you're trying to get at. I mean... sure, we have some company at the bottom of the rankings, but is that really a positive?  Congrats we're not the absolute worst, just among the worst.

Edited by TCLT
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TCLT said:

I mean... Europe has twice the population of america but okay...

A good chunk of that includes Russia and Turkey, bringing their total closer to 300,000. I am not saying your not wrong, I am just saying, did they really that much of a better job. Are their efforts, including having to shut down yet again really making a drastically bigger difference. How much do the United States obesity problems, or lack of affordable health care play into our numbers? 

Overall, I don't think repeated government shutdowns, which will increase homelessness, wage gaps, and poverty in general are the solution to this virus. The only thing that is going to make a true difference is a vaccine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

A good chunk of that includes Russia and Turkey, bringing their total closer to 300,000. I am not saying your not wrong, I am just saying, did they really that much of a better job. Are their efforts, including having to shut down yet again really making a drastically bigger difference. How much do the United States obesity problems, or lack of affordable health care play into our numbers? 

Overall, I don't think repeated government shutdowns, which will increase homelessness, wage gaps, and poverty in general are the solution to this virus. The only thing that is going to make a true difference is a vaccine. 

So it seems like you weren't actually refuting my assessment, just leading to an entirely different argument.

In any case, I agree that absent significant government support and stimulus a new round of shutdowns is neither wise nor likely to be tolerated by the public. And it certainly seems like our current leadership has thrown up their hands and are now just going to let the situation run its course while waiting for a vaccine. We'll see if that approach changes on January 20.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The regions hardest hit in the spring generally have the highest per capita death rates, such as New York, Italy, and Spain.  Treatments have improved and hospital systems have learned much more about dealing with it, so death rates are generally lower in areas that have surged since then. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Consider the historic conditions the quote reflects. People attend these speeches and then go home. They may be encouraged to act in favor of their candidate yet no more. No Kristallnacht. No lynchings (in his era). Americans, even in the odd (to our eyes and ears) times of the 1950's and '60's (his time) were no more interested in pursuing vengeance, retribution and intimidation than today. That is my take.*

 

*My father took me to a campaign event in 1960 to see John Kennedy speak at a fundraiser in my hometown of Indianapolis. The donors were seated in the floor of the large building at dining tables for the formal experience of the donor dinner with a stage for speakers at one end. We plebes were allowed to be in the nosebleed seats to hear and see him speak. My father was against him politically but wanted me to see him as he had the chance of being the next president.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in second grade, 1962.  JFK was in the town next to ours.  He was stumping for some one, don't know who.  My father thought it was important to see him.  We were at the edge of a department store parking lot.  Steel mill town 20 miles from Pittsburgh.  Don't remember anything he said.  But, when he left, his limo went by us very close. Almost got to shake his hand. Never saw another President live. It was the thrill of a lifetime.  Also it was a hot afternoon.  One of the bars nearby had AC.  That was a big deal.  They even advertised in front of the bar that they had AC.  So, got to see JFK and walk into a nice cool bar afterwards. Does life get any better than that?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.