Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[kermit]

Duke Energy working hard to prop up our anti-urban legislature through political donations...

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by kermit

[kermit]

 

 

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Georgia Trending Blue Faster than NC?  No.   GA may be starting to "trend Blue" because of changes in its demographics, but barely.  

First of all, the Presidential election was decided by a razor thin margin of 12000 votes.  (Obama won NC by more votes in 2008).  Interestingly, there were over 500,000 fewer votes than NC cast.  the only reason Georgia trended Blue in 2020 was the relentless 24/7 coverage of Georgia by every media outlet on the planet and daily visits to the state by Democratic leaders who, along with private donations, flooded into the state at an unprecedented rate.  Even so, the margins of victory in GA for President, and the two Senate seats were paltry and pathetic at best given the amount of energy, money and attention exerted.  Compared this to NC which was visited by Biden or Harris just 4 times in 6 weeks with zero media attention and Trump, who visited NC once or twice a week...with almost zero resistance from the DNC and its affiliates and major drops by the RNC and its affiliates in NC markets.  NC also had Senate candidate who suffered from self-inflicted wounds but even so, barely died of these wounds losing by less than 100,000 votes out of nearly 6 million cast.   And, then, there's the local and state elections.  Did Democratic candidates do better in NC or GA?  What were their margins of victory?   

More numbers:  between the 2016 and 2020 Presidential candidates, the difference in votes received was higher for Dems in boths states: NC +505K / GA +596K .  For the GOP it was NC +396K / GA +372.  I think this is more evidence that it was amount of attention and money spent to get votes over the line.  I think Cunningham's moral high ground stance vs. badly timed shenanigans hurt Democrats across the ballot in NC.  Even more telling, politically, was how little Cooper was hurt by his response to Covid vs. Georgia's where its response to the pandemic was the opposite of NC and nearly as bad as Sweden (NC, GA, and Sweden are roughly the same population with three different approaches.  Guess which one has the fewest deaths and cases -- by far - of the three?).  Turns out that Cooper's approach wasn't as catastrophic to the state's GDP as was Georgia's.  Our economy shrink by almost a full point less than Georgia's with stricter rules.  Go figure.  

The amount of resources, energy, and attention poured into Georgia by Democrats is something I've never seen in 50 years.  Georgia isn't trending bluer faster -- it just shows that when media attention, money, and party activity is laser focused on a state in such an unprecedented way, you had better win.  In the case of Georgia, they barely won.  

Speaking of demographics, I don' t know that either party can count on reliable monolithic voting blocks based on race, religion, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., anymore, but that's a different subject.  

Edited April 2, 2021 by Phillydog

[kermit]

23 hours ago, LvninATLviaCLT said:

Not wanting to get political, I live in Georgia and have read the bill because some of the things I heard were bothersome. All are lies in the media about this bill. Its not bad and actually expands voting and the water thing is not true. Read the bill for yourselves. Dont just take my word and definitely not the media's and politicians words. They have a misinformation agenda for sure. The corporations and MLB have caved to the cancel culture

Yea, this is bullsh1t. Among other things, the bill does the following:

• The water thing is in there -- why are you pretending otherwise?

Quote

Page 73: No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give, or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and drink, to an elector

• The law cuts in half the amount of time available to Georgians to request absentee ballots (So if your precinct always has long lines this bill has the ridiculous no water provision to discourage you, if you decide to vote absentee instead of standing in line this bill makes it harder to do that. How does any of this "expand voting"?)
• The law allows the state to meddle in local election boards
• The law creates a partisan state election board (the board was previously non-partisan)
• The law substantially reduces the number of ballot drop boxes in urban areas. In addition, it makes drop boxes only accessible during normal working hours. Drop boxes must also be removed four days before the election.
• Allows the state to suspend local elections officials (in other words it would allow the GA SOS to tamper with local elections results if someone bullied him into it)
• Allows for unlimited challenges to voter eligibility (e.g. "we need to toss all of the mail in ballots from Chatham county because the president "thinks" they look weird..")

The  2020 Georgia election was one of the most highly scrutinized and audited elections of modern times, yet no significant fraud was found. Given that, please tell us what exactly is gained from imposing these rules which clearly make voting more difficult and more subject to manipulation by state officials? Seems to me the bill is designed to give legitimacy to the lie that the presidential election was stolen (and makes it easy for state officials to steal the next one).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by kermit

[joshuavmc]

I think Microsoft gave the best Business statement and most specific examples of why this law is bad for voters and business.

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2021/03/31/why-we-are-concerned-about-georgias-new-election-law/

[atl2clt]

2 hours ago, LvninATLviaCLT said:

Not wanting to get political, I live in Georgia and have read the bill because some of the things I heard were bothersome. All are lies in the media about this bill. Its not bad and actually expands voting and the water thing is not true. Read the bill for yourselves. Dont just take my word and definitely not the media's and politicians words. They have a misinformation agenda for sure. The corporations and MLB have caved to the cancel culture

Also wanted to chime in here. 

First, I'm a lawyer. Also, I might add, one largely educated in Georgia. 

Second, you are undoubtedly lying when you said you read the bill's full text. The bill is 98 pages long. Without legal training in legislative history, statutory interpretation and election law, you cannot and will not understand this law. Guaranteed. Take, for instance, the following provision in Section 27(b) (which amends Code Section 21-2-384): "The larger of the two envelopes to be enclosed within the mailing envelope shall be printed contain the form of oath of the elector and the oath for persons assisting electors, as provided for in Code Section 21-2-409, and the penalties provided for in Code Sections 21-2-568, 21-2-573, 1294 21-2-579, and 21-2-599 for violations of oaths..."

You understand that? No you don't. I'm trained in this stuff and I don't even understand it. 

Third, this article is helpful in summarizing/annotating the legalese: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

Fourth, this is the free market in action. The MLB is a private organization. It basically said, "we're a private organization, and as a private organization, we feel it is on our best long-term interests to distance ourselves from Georgia's recent political actions." This isn't about cancel culture. It's about capitalism. You're just upset that capitalism didn't sit idly by this time. 

No doubt, this is a calculated business/marketing decision by the MLB. They weighed the financial costs and benefits, and capitalism determined that your side lost.  Sorry.

Edited April 3, 2021 by atl2clt

[southslider]

On 4/1/2021 at 2:42 PM, Phillydog said:

Georgia Trending Blue Faster than NC?  No.   GA may be starting to "trend Blue" because of changes in its demographics, but barely.  

Georgia isn't trending bluer faster -- it just shows that when media attention, money, and party activity is laser focused on a state in such an unprecedented way, you had better win.  In the case of Georgia, they barely won.   

GA is much more urban (3/4) than NC (2/3). NC has one of the largest rural populations of any state (2nd only to TX?, though TX also trending more urban faster than NC). Eastern NC areas still trended right in 2020, offsetting suburban realignment in the high-growth metros. Atlanta has become such a large metro that GA could be a major realignment, like CO and VA past cycles, and AZ this cycle.  Still, I think GA remains competitive, especially if its rural areas haven't reached a floor or suburban areas swing.

Edited April 7, 2021 by southslider

[urbanlover568]

On 4/2/2021 at 8:01 PM, atl2clt said:

Also wanted to chime in here. 

First, I'm a lawyer. Also, I might add, one largely educated in Georgia. 

Second, you are undoubtedly lying when you said you read the bill's full text. The bill is 98 pages long. Without legal training in legislative history, statutory interpretation and election law, you cannot and will not understand this law. Guaranteed. Take, for instance, the following provision in Section 27(b) (which amends Code Section 21-2-384): "The larger of the two envelopes to be enclosed within the mailing envelope shall be printed contain the form of oath of the elector and the oath for persons assisting electors, as provided for in Code Section 21-2-409, and the penalties provided for in Code Sections 21-2-568, 21-2-573, 1294 21-2-579, and 21-2-599 for violations of oaths..."

You understand that? No you don't. I'm trained in this stuff and I don't even understand it. 

Third, this article is helpful in summarizing/annotating the legalese: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

Fourth, this is the free market in action. The MLB is a private organization. It basically said, "we're a private organization, and as a private organization, we feel it is on our best long-term interests to distance ourselves from Georgia's recent political actions." This isn't about cancel culture. It's about capitalism. You're just upset that capitalism didn't sit idly by this time. 

No doubt, this is a calculated business/marketing decision by the MLB. They weighed the financial costs and benefits, and capitalism determined that your side lost.  Sorry.

Are you saying the poster is not educated enough to understand the bill because they may not be a Lawyer? The average reader can read 100 pages in 2.8 hours. 

[urbanlover568]

On 3/10/2021 at 8:53 AM, kermit said:

Duke Energy working hard to prop up our anti-urban legislature through political donations...

 

So it's okay for the MLB to boycott GA, but it's not okay for Duke to give to the GOP?

 

So much hypocrisy on both sides. Thank the heavens i'm a Independent. 

[kermit]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:42 PM, urbanlover568 said:

So it's okay for the MLB to boycott GA, but it's not okay for Duke to give to the GOP?

When did I say it wasn't OK?

Why shouldn't we know about the political proclivities of the companies we give our money to? Is transparency not a good thing? And in this case Duke is regulated by the same politicians they are contributing to, so it seems particularly important that we know about these relationships.

Edited April 11, 2021 by kermit

[urbanlover568]

22 hours ago, kermit said:

When did I say it wasn't OK?

Why shouldn't we know about the political proclivities of the companies we give our money to? Is transparency not a good thing? And in this case Duke is regulated by the same politicians they are contributing to, so it seems particularly important that we know about these connections.

(I am also glad to be without political affiliation)

We should know where money is flowing to. I never said the opposite. The hypocrisy on both sides is baffling.  Biden okaying the NBA boycott and Mcconnel okaying companies giving political donations. Both choices infuriating the opposite party. 

 

Quote

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

John Adams

 

Quote

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

George Washington

 

 

 

[atl2clt]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:20 PM, urbanlover568 said:

Are you saying the poster is not educated enough to understand the bill because they may not be a Lawyer? The average reader can read 100 pages in 2.8 hours. 

Okay, let's assume I read 100 pages of a medical textbook in 2.8 hours. Are you implying that I am qualified to understand this material despite having no training in medical studies? 

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, atl2clt said:

Okay, let's assume I read 100 pages of a medical textbook in 2.8 hours. Are you implying that I am qualified to understand this material despite having no training in medical studies? 

 

[urbanlover568]

I thought you were moving on @elrodvt ?

[Durhamite]

1 hour ago, atl2clt said:

Okay, let's assume I read 100 pages of a medical textbook in 2.8 hours. Are you implying that I am qualified to understand this material despite having no training in medical studies? 

Now...now...you're dealing with a bunch of American  Geniuses on that side of the universe.  I might agree if he were referring to Dr. Suess (cat in the hat).  Hell, I deal with technical legalize all day in the Energy Regulatory Cyber Security enivronemnt and it takes months/years for "SMEs" to make sense of a lot of the legalise.  The average person would  probably read 10 pages and be ready to a long walk off a short pier.

That lol ranks right up there with a ton of wtf statements from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, circa 2016-2020.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Durhamite

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, Durhamite said:

Now...now...you're dealing with a bunch of American  Geniuses on that side of the universe.  I might agree if he were referring to Dr. Suess (cat in the hat).  Hell, I deal with technical legalize all day in the Energy Regulatory Cyber Security enivronemnt and it takes years for the average person to make sense to minimum legalise.  The average person would  probably read 10 pages and be ready to long walk off a short pier.

That lol ranks right up there with a ton of wtf statements from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, circa 2016-2020.

Yes, Americans are dumb as rocks, right? We are too stupid to understand anything or learn any information. 

[atl2clt]

47 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

Yes, Americans are dumb as rocks, right? We are too stupid to understand anything or learn any information. 

No, the issue is deceit. 

When a poster says, "I read a whole statute in one sitting and now I understand it", that person is lying. 

This isn't about making people feel stupid. It's about recognizing when people are lying, and then notifying others of their deceit. 

 

[urbanlover568]

5 minutes ago, atl2clt said:

No, the issue is deceit. 

When a poster says, "I read a whole statute in one sitting and now I understand it", that person is lying. 

This isn't about making people feel stupid. It's about recognizing when people are lying, and then notifying others of their deceit. 

 

I think you may not be QUALIFIED enough to make that statement. Where is your PhD in Psychology? 

[atl2clt]

Just now, urbanlover568 said:

I think you may not be QUALIFIED enough to make that statement. Where is your PhD in Psychology? 

This is contrarian just for the sake of argument. I'm out. 

[kermit]

Its good to see the NCGOP beginning to gain awareness that there is a social dimension to economic development:

 

[JRNYP2C]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:02 AM, kermit said:

Its good to see the NCGOP beginning to gain awareness that there is a social dimension to economic development:

 

Of all the more pressing issues this state has to work on, the two most corrupt and buffoonery people in the NCGA are trying to push this???  REALLY?  I pray and pray that we can vote them out in the next election.

[Nick2]

Anyone else almost sick to their stomach that we might have another trump representing us in NC? 

(Lara trump might run for Senate)

Edited April 29, 2021 by Nick2

[elrodvt]

2 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Anyone else almost sick to their stomach that we might have another trump representing us in NC? 

(Lara trump might run for Senate)

Yes! 

[JRNYP2C]

On 4/28/2021 at 8:20 PM, Nick2 said:

Anyone else almost sick to their stomach that we might have another trump representing us in NC? 

(Lara trump might run for Senate)

Jeff Jackson all the way!!!

[kermit]

Check out the crowd Tariq is proudly hanging with (this image is from his twitter). Something makes me think he has decided to follow the McCrory trajectory of rapidly increasing radicalization. Sharing a stage with seditionists is going to make it much harder for him to sell Charlotte as a site for fintech investment.

(perhaps I was mistaken when I originally perceived him to be a moderate in the Mayor Pat sense)

Edited June 6, 2021 by kermit